by "Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
Published 12/14/2017 at 12:46
by "Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
Published 12/14/2017 at 12:46
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One of the main factors at my school last year was that four women were trying to get into an American university whose name I forgot. I know it was private and their degrees were four to eight years long, meaning that they would be preparing to pay anywhere from 200,000 to 400,000 dollars for their education.
Now, I didn’t even bother with American colleges because I just don’t like them all that much, and because I did not have the “Foreign student” average for them.
These four women, for reference, are the smartest people I know. They were passionate about their carriers, extremely hard working, and every single one of them got more than 1400 at the SATs, I got a 1250. Our school wasn’t Mexico’s best American school, not by a country mile, but they did offer an American high school diploma and the IB program.
Again, just for reference, the school that had the highest IB average in the world had about 41 out of 45. The only issue is that three of those women took chemistry with me, and lets just say my school was more focused on the humanities, and by that I mean that our curriculum for Chemistry was spottier than a CL seller.
I failed the IB because I didn’t pass chemistry, but all three of them passed the IB with about 35 points, the other woman was taking Biology and she also passed, with flying colors. I remember they had a weighted GPA of about 4.5.
So, six months have gone by, where are these women?
Not in that college.
One of them landed a college in Washington D.C. and is amazed how easy it is.
One of them landed a college in Pennsylvania, and isn’t having a bad time about it.
One of them entered Tec de Monterrey here in Mexico City (I know, it makes no sense) Its a private non-profit college, she already built her first robotic arm. As she passed her SATs with about 1500 she was admitted without an exam, something I could’ve chosen since the minimum for direct entry is 1200.
The last one hasn’t entered college.
Now, why didn’t these four brilliant people enter the college I am referring to? Well because they only allow one Mexican national per year, not per semester. Meaning that they were competing with students from better schools and from schools that were easier to skew grades in (its a common problem in Mexico)
But lets retake the third woman, the one studying Mechatronical engineering in ITESM. It is the most expensive private school in Mexico, they have international agreements with hundreds of schools, win competitions often, have expert teachers that work in their fields outside the college, and have a ridiculous amount of students going to work directly after graduating. I asked how many of their mechanical engineering students landed a job outside their field and they laughed at me saying “ Esto no es Estados Unidos , joven ” but for once it was a good thing.
Assuming she takes 10 semesters to finish her degree,which is a good amount for her degree, It will cost her about 1.1 million pesos. Also known as 60 thousand dollars: which is insane. Her group size is always about 10 students and had she wanted to she could’ve taken classes in english, I kid you not. She is not paying a scholarship either.
My college, the Iberoamerican University, has similar certifications to Tec, but its a bit cheaper and a lot larger (2,000 students vs 14,000), in Mexico scholarships are given based on socio-economic indicators that are a lot more sophisticated than in the US, so I wouldn’t be able to get one. It doesn’t mean its imposible, on the contrary, about half of my colleagues are brilliant men and women that have scholarships. Same rings true of Tec.
My beef with American schools comes from the price which I can’t fucking fathom: My university offers international certifications, and I could study an entire exchange year in colleges like Brown because they have an exchange agreement, if my average is of 8.2 or higher, I wouldn’t even pay Brown’s tuition, but Ibero’s. I have all the amenities an American college has, in fact, as projects I’ll probably end up building my own bicycle, my own drone, and my own suspension system. We end up getting a ridiculous amount of awards for our work in architecture and design too! One of my collegues just won 25 thousand pesos and he’s been in school for three months! Another person I know graduated directly into a full time job at IBM of Mexico, didn’t even study a STEM degree.
Why am I showing off so blatantly? Well, because again, that six figure number messes with me. Neither can I understand why it was such an arduous process for my friends to apply for American universities, let alone that they spent almost 1,000 dollars in extra exams, “physiological tests”, sending official grades signed over the mail, making essays and paying the application fee. The joke became that “American colleges are hard to get in, Mexican colleges are hard to stay in.” If your average drops under 7.5 in my college, well you’re given the boot.
Perhaps you’re a better student than me and think that paying 1 million pesos to graduate as an engineer is ridiculous, as many do. Well, then the only thing separating you from being in Mexico’s best college is a very hard admission exam. But no psychological tests, no ridiculous essays to see if you’re “right for us” or “right for this degree” no. Its a sheet of paper, if you ace it, you fucking ace it and you’re in a college where you pay virtually no money and has some of the most prestigious awards for medicine, architecture, engineering, law, literature, I could go on forever.
But its the elitism I suppose, because when I looked up UNAM , it was just Americans sounding off opinions about how much a degree could be worth from that university.
And I still can’t understand what an American college has that mine doesn’t, I’ll never know really, because I don’t care for them. If I take a year outside Mexico it will be straight across the US and into Canada!
I think it boils down to two questions:
Is Mexican education bad? Yes.
Is Mexican higher education, both public and private, bad? Not a fucking chance!
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
12/14/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 2
One of them landed a college in Washington D.C. and is amazed how easy it is.
So she goes to George Washington? (jokes)
Serous reply: American universities give almost no aid to international students; mostly because they don’t qualify for U.S. government aid, and the assumption that international students are wealthier and can afford tuition.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
12/14/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 0
I was friends with a guy from Mexico at my former company, he went to the University of Tulsa and got a degree in Petroleum Engineering. I believe he had gotten a scholarship or aid or something.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 0
I’d have to ask about it! It is one of the more prestigious of the area, she’s studying Foreign Relations.
Its not about the aid, the cost is the cost. Be you American or not, you’ll end up with six figure’s worth of debt!
And again, both Ibero and Tec are 100% autonomous and they hate the government. I don’t think either got subsides other than the Zedec-Santa-Fe land grant that many schools, malls, and developers took back in the eighties and nineties. Even being autonomous, it only costs 58,000 grand to get my degree! Its nuts!
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
12/14/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 0
Because in the US the govt decides to run education like a business. They want to make money from it. Which is the stupidest fucking thing to do. When I have kids I’d rather send them to schools in Scandinavia than the US.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
12/14/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 2
Be you American or not, you’ll end up with six figure’s worth of debt!
This isn’t the case for some American private schools. The high sticker price of tuition subsidizes grants for students who can’t afford full tuition. At these universities, the actual tuition cost is a progressive scale based on family income.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
The one about to get an E90? I remember that conversation...
Some universities offer aid and scholarships to foreign students, but its uncommon.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
12/14/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 1
Tulsa Golden Hurricane > Miami Hurricanes
"jimz" (jimz)
12/14/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 5
Private universities are expensive because 1) they can be, 2) they don’t get any public funding; instead relying completely on tuition and grants. State Universities give preferences to in-state residents by much lower tuition since it’s assumed their families have been paying state taxes some of which support the state universities. Michigan State University doesn’t have strange or onerous admission requirements:
but tuition and fees for out-of-state students is 2x the cost.
1) is especially true now because you’re competing with the exploding upper class in China who can afford to spend tons of money sending their kids to the best schools here. I could not afford to go to the school I got my engineering degree from today; their tuition has skyrocketed.
also contributing to this is the federal government got into the student loan game and will lend to pretty much anyone with a pulse. So even further incentive to jack up tuition rates. And the US culture of “you have to go to college in order to be worth anything” which means people take out a bunch of (federal) student loans and spend thousands of dollars to get a degree which doesn’t do anything for them.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
So its a scholarship?
The absolutely most expensive school here is about 10-12 thousand dollars a year, that’s before the scholarships they give out, which again, for STEM they tend to have about a third to a half of the alumni with a scholarship.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
12/14/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 1
He’s got a mustang, I’m trying to convince him that he needs an E9X M3. We spent 6 weeks as roommates for a school that we had to attend as part
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
I agree with you, but aren’t most schools in the US non-profits?
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:08, STARS: 0
I suppose so... I don’t know, It mostly makes me angry that I found a Quora article questioning UNAM’s credibility.
I attend a private college and it’s still only about 10,000 dollars per year, they are a non-profit though...
"EL_ULY" (uly)
12/14/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 0
Todos los escuincles ricos de Mexico se van a estudiar a Europa nomalmente. Regresan mas pinches mamones. Sus papas les tiene trabajo de rateros si van o no van a estudiar cualquier manera.
Reciben su diploma pero no se les quita lo pendejo!!!!
"TheVicious" (TheVicious)
12/14/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 2
It’s a racket but in certain fields (like medicine) you go American or you don’t get a job. It’s mostly connections and name recognition. As to the cost, it’s because they can get away with it. Here we pay $100+ for a textbook that you can get for $20 in any other country (and they force those connect codes so you can’t buy used or international).
"JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t" (jawzx2)
12/14/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 0
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 0
Yes, medicine is harder, because even if you got your Mexican degree you’d need to attend a 2 year course to get your American license. Even then, I don’t think American hospitals recognize the great work of the UNAM or of UP.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/14/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 0
The overall high cost of universities in the US is because the amount of government funding provided to them is only a small fraction of the overall cost, especially compared to other countries that more heavily subsidize universities.
Public universities which are funded by state governments charge lower tuition for students from the states in which they are located, and charge students from outside their state higher tuition, much closer to private colleges.
The federal government provides Pell grants to students whose families are below a certain income threshold but this grant amount usually only covers maybe half the cost of in-state tuition at a public 4-year university.
Private universities charge high tuition but often provide grants for students from different income brackets, and this applies even up to middle and upper middle income levels.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
12/14/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 0
Canada has great schools, lots of international students. University of Waterloo has lots of great engineering programs, & the school has a high rating.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 0
Again, my college is private, so is Tec, even then, our cost will be about 10,000 to 12,000 dollars.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:16, STARS: 1
YES! I want to go there! If I like it I’ll take my Masters or PhD there too!
*Daydreams about working with Bombardier*
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
12/14/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 0
This is a combination of multiple things, in no particular order. American state schools are some of the “best” in the world. I have no idea if that is actually true (and I am inclined to believe not) and as a result there is a tremendous amount of international competition to get in them, especially from china, india, and eastern europe. gosh darn feriners.
That is actually exacerbated by the incredible amount of competition in the U.S to get into them. the government provides serious subsidies to low income families to provide for college education. not going to start an argument about that, it is just a fact.
In addition, given our country’s relative wealth, more people can afford to go to college. as a result, it has become critical to get a four year degree where it used to maybe only require 2. Anyone who didn’t go to college (according to companies anyway) looks like a straight up idiot, even though we know that has nothing to do with it. Companies don’t care what you learned so much that you were able to put up with four years of bullshit, usually they train you anyway. So everybody goes to college now. It is used like a sifter, to help weed people out.
More a supply and demand problem, coupled with a healthy dose of elitism.
I went to a private school, not a super prestigious one. Got a scholarship, when I got straight up rejected by a number of “better” schools. Got the exact same education. Only in the hole 50k from that.
Going for my masters at an expensive, “reputable” school. Quality of my classes is on par or worse. I blame the professors (or lack thereof)
All said and done, ~80k for a masters degree. Because I made some compromises, I am out super cheap. Then again, I live at home still.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
12/14/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 2
No; scholarships are for good grades; grants are for financial need.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
Again: Tec and Ibero are private! no government grants there! and still, they are inside the most expensive borough of Mexico City, host a shit ton of equipment and highly prepared faculty! yet its 10-12K dollars a year!
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
12/14/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 1
theoretically, but there’s not a poor college administrator in the US though.
my alma mater, UK, the president has a house on campus fully paid and furnished by the university. he lives in a mansion off campus.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
I think here they are bundled up together... which might be an issue come to think about it!
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
12/14/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 0
Lol, Bombardier.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 1
I doubt my unis’s rector is poor either. But it rings true, its like this map of the highest paid state employees in the US. I suspect non-profit doesn’t mean not-wasting!
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
12/14/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
Universities have a huge number of employees, and labor costs from the lowliest janitor on up to the fanciest professor are considerably more expensive in the U.S.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
"E92M3" (E46M3)
12/14/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 4
Why is it so high? Because of Federal Student Loans. Anyone can get a student loan, so demand is high. Colleges could raise their prices 30% next year, and still reach full enrollment. If the loans were harder to get and less people applied, prices would drop. There’s a debt bubble coming that will far exceed the housing crisis of 2008.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
12/14/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
There is also Magna International, there HQ is in Ontario. They work with lots of auto manufacturers.
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
12/14/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 3
So it costs somewhere between a half and a quarter of an American private university’s tuition. And it pays its professors somewhere between a half and a quarter of what an American private university pays, and its janitors, and its food service employees, and its groundskeepers, and so on, especially when you factor in the cost of providing health benefits for full-time employees. Probably even less.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 0
I understand quality of life in the US is much higher.
lets say, for instance, that NYC is 83% more expensive than Mexico City, even multiplying my tuition by 1.83, it’s still is 22,000 dollars a year! at a private university with no grants and without applying scholarships!
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/14/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 0
A big factor in how private universities set their prices is in relation to what public universities charge. What is the cost of public universities there?
For example, the public University of Wisconsin charges about $10,500 per year to Wisconsin residents, or $35,800 to students from outside Wisconsin. International students pay a few hundred dollars more.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:28, STARS: 0
Well, nothing! Public Universities and Colleges are free here (and different things but more on that later)
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:29, STARS: 0
That is so pathetic and dangerous I can’t even! Why isn’t it reigned in!?!
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
12/14/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 1
Expensive? Yes. Hard to get in? No. Any idiot from a decent high school in America can find SOME state school that will accept them and at each state school there is at least a program or two that is actually strong.
The one foreign student thing is ridiculous but state universities are NOT like that. Normal students in the US tend to just apply to the state schools in their state and neighboring states, and the private schools are completely different in their admissions process.
I was extremely well qualified and applied to 12 schools and every single public school accepted me and some with scholarships. My 3 “reach” schools, all private, rejected me without waitlist. I now attend Virginia Tech which has a 70%+ acceptance rate(!!!!!) and outperforms all three private schools in my program. Don’t base your hate of us colleges on private schools, we hate them too!
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 1
Ibero offers free health insurance to all of its workers, it doesn’t necessarily rely on the IMSS.
Ibero is inside the most expensive borough of Mexico City; rent rivals Vancouver rent.
Living in Mexico is ostentably cheaper, yes. But not that much cheaper. According to this website, NYC is 83% more expensive . But if I multiply my 1,000,000 peso cost by 1.83% its still almost half the cost than what the linked website suggests!
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
12/14/2017 at 13:34, STARS: 0
Yes. And in reality it would probably cost more like $40,000 a year. Meanwhile, the professors are paid four times as much, if not more, and their healthcare benefits cost many times what they do in Mexico. I didn’t have a single professor in grad school in New York who made less than $130,000 a year. Compare that to something like $30,000 at UNAM and you can see where a huge part of the difference comes from.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/14/2017 at 13:34, STARS: 2
Ok, so if a person in Mexico can go to public university for (basically) free, the private universities have to take that into account when setting their prices. Presumably the reason the public universities are free is because the government covers the cost.
In the US, students going even to their own state’s public universities are spending a 5-figure dollar amount per year, and if they want to go to some other state’s public university, it’s easily 3x more. So the private universities don’t have that downward pressure on their prices.
Each private university is different but many of them have large financial endowments and extend financial aid to students, even those whose parents make pretty good money.
Depending on how much money kids’ parents make, they can often get a better deal at a private university than public, but they need to meet certain academic standards to maintain that discount.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 1
I have heard good stuff about Virginia Tech! but how much does it charge?
If I was so qualified as to be accepted to 12/12 public schools I could’ve gone to UNAM and paid nothing’s worth of tuition.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 0
I understand that, it is a factor. Ibero professors are paid about 17,000 dollars before benefits (which are a big part but harder to find about) But these are part time workers, they normally work outside the school too, in their field.
Plus, 17,000 dollars in Mexico City is a killer salary, the average middle class salary is 8,000 dollars, plus benefits.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:40, STARS: 0
UNAM has a symbolic tuition of 50 cents of a peso.
"Under_Score" (tomtheatum)
12/14/2017 at 13:41, STARS: 0
Even with Zell, my public four-year school is over $6,000 per semester. We don’t have a football program or anything; that’s just existence. My parents are paying, thankfully, and they planned well so they wouldn’t have to take out loans. Still, it’s pretty wild, considering that my school is much cheaper than something private or other public schools. It was easy to get into, and my classes so far have been easier than high school AP’s.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
12/14/2017 at 13:42, STARS: 0
Your best future bet would be CRRC then.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 0
I’m not sure I’d like to live in a country where I couldn’t search about the Tiananmen square protests
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
12/14/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 0
It’s an amazing engineering school and we do all sorts of hands on projects like the drones and suspension components you mentioned. Sounds like you found yourself a great value since things like that are “selling points” of the vt engineering program and you’re paying a fraction for the same experience.
$12,800 for in state students and $30,000 for out of state before room and board, dining, etc. I am out of state so I would be paying nearly 4x what you pay but my “scholarship” was being able to pay the in state tuition. I think my total bill with everything included is closer to $20,000 though.
Are the good Mexican public schools harder to get into because they are free? I know a lot of peers from high school who are absolute morons and proved that if you apply to enough state schools you’ll get into one.
"Sovande" (sovande)
12/14/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 2
Sounds like you shouldn’t go to an American university then? What exactly is the beef here? If it costs more than you think it should, don’t attend.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
12/14/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 0
They’re building a factory in Canada and are taking over the Eastern European market, so as long as you don’t mind the cold, you could end up somewhere that is not China. I’m not too happy about their expansion to be honest, it’s a state-funded drive to corner the global market.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:49, STARS: 1
Yes, it is an issue, Schools like ColMex and UNAM are very hard to get into, but are publicly funded. Other public schools like State Unis and the IPN college (which only has undergrad) are much easier to get into, but still quite hard.
Is Mexican education bad? Yes.
Is Mexican higher education, both public and private, bad? Not a fucking chance!
You need to remember that Mexico doesn’t really have a functional k-12 educational program, so whatever savings you get in higher education you might end up paying in private k-12.
It makes no sense because the best public highschool in Mexico City is really good! but then you have a stupid amount of public schools that suck!
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 0
Its mostly the elitism. You know they’d brainwash us that its the place to go, but you know, as you grow up you start realizing that its mostly a pretty lie.
I really like Americans! I like your cities, I adore your peoples, and I think that you have quite great music! But some details like that about the elitism really bug me. It makes me feel as if I’d never be enough for you!
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:52, STARS: 0
Aren’t Bombardier, Airbus, and Boeing a bit state funded?
Admittedly, funded by governments with much better human rights records!
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
12/14/2017 at 13:56, STARS: 0
The high school system in Mexico probably also influences the difficulty of applying to US schools from there. Even if you go to a great high school in Mexico, an American university may not have the means or info to differentiate it from the much worse ones.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 13:59, STARS: 1
Well but isn’t that argument basically Xenophobia? I graduated with an American high school diploma too!
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
12/14/2017 at 14:00, STARS: 1
My sister didn’t get into Vanderbilt the first time because they only allowed a certain amount of kids from our county... The problem is that the county has 3 High Schools with ACT averages around 27 or so and 2-5 kids from each of those 3 that get perfect scores. It’s probably easier to get in from a different country(by percentage that apply) then our county, 20 minutes away from campus.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
12/14/2017 at 14:01, STARS: 0
Definitely xenophobic. I wasn’t defending it, that’s just maybe how it is. I think they have the opposite xenophobic view of Chinese and Korean international applicants too which just makes it all even wackier and messed up. Private schools certainly aren’t afraid to discriminate though, and their application processes consist of interviews essays and psych tests so they can grant entry based on more subjection rather than something concrete like test performance.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 14:01, STARS: 1
same story I suppose.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
12/14/2017 at 14:02, STARS: 0
They are, just as Alstom and I’m guessing Siemens are. In those cases it’s more of a way to safeguard jobs (e.g. France’s investment in Alstom after threats of closing a French production plant), which is a debatable practice, but CRRC is an instrument of China’s expansionist policies. It fits in with the new colonisation of Africa and the new Silk Road.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 14:04, STARS: 1
Oh, totally. I wasn’t saying
you were
xenophobic. Understanding isn’t justifying!
and yeah, discrimination based on nationality is bad!
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 0
Ahem... marshal plan...ahem..>
China is dangerous, but we made it happen!
It’s capitalism’s monster!
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
12/14/2017 at 14:15, STARS: 0
Fair enough, I guess I’m more frustrated with our governments being willingly taken to the slaughterhouse, rather than with China’s focus shifting from the internal to the external market.
"BigBlock440" (440-4bbl)
12/14/2017 at 14:21, STARS: 0
What free market are you referring to?
"BigBlock440" (440-4bbl)
12/14/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 0
Because then you’d be discriminating against the poor that can’t afford it without government backed loans.
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
12/14/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 0
Right. So by this measure alone, American universities start to sound like a bargain (they are not, but you see my point).
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 0
Im talking about tuition costs, not rhe loans themselves
"BigBlock440" (440-4bbl)
12/14/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
Because then the government would control private business, and it’s not like there aren’t other options. It’s like looking at a Ferrari and saying you shouldn’t be able to charge so much for a car.
"E92M3" (E46M3)
12/14/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 1
The tuition keeps going up because the government is willing to pay it....up front anyway.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/14/2017 at 15:26, STARS: 0
Not really man, I mean, if I wanted I could still go to college for free here, no matter who I was: rich or poor.
Plus, its not apples to apples: Your teacher might’ve been paid 764% more than mine, but said teacher would be expected to spend 1000% on the Metro fees alone!
I understand that colleges here are cheaper compared to American ones for reasons like the salaries you mention, and Tec and Ibero do stand out as expensive universities here because of the different wealth of the population. For instance, the GDP per capita of Mexico City is about 23,000 dollars, compare it to LA which has one of almost 65,000 dollars: it is a huge factor.
But it does come back to the issue that college cost in the US is out of control because a similarly qualified teacher in Latin America’s most prestigious college (UNAM), living in a city whose HDI competes with some US states might earn 10% or 20% of what the American professor does while still having a great life and producing great alumni. Additionally, I did not include bonuses or tax exemptions or the fact that if you work for UNAM you can go get free medical coverage at their hospitals.
To make an apples to apples comparison we’d need data that is neither publicly available or even comparable because 130K is moderately useful in NYC, very useful in rural Kansas, and a fortune in Mexico City.
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
12/14/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 1
I think you are confusing the fact that I am providing factual information (and joking about how the math comes out) with expressing an opinion on education policy. I am definitely not suggesting that the American model is better. I agree with you that American higher education is too expensive overall, and that in particular public higher education should be more accessible to qualified students regardless of wealth. All I was trying to do was provide some factual information to help answer one of the post’s headline questions: why is college in the U.S. so much more expensive? The answer is that labor costs are something like ten times as high (especially if we start getting into health care—that cool UNAM benefit of free medical coverage at the university’s hospitals would cost an American university more to provide per employee than that employee’s entire salary would be in Mexico) and the government doesn’t subsidize public education nearly as much.
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
12/14/2017 at 16:48, STARS: 1
No, some are for profit. Then you have all have all of the loans too.....
"ranwhenparked" (ranwhenparked)
12/14/2017 at 19:25, STARS: 1
It depends what college. State-run or state-related colleges and universities (and, of course, community colleges) can be very cheap. Private colleges and universities can be obscenely expensive (but, as a counterweight, usually offer more generous financial aid packages than state schools).
Part of it is that very few college students shop schools based on price - they look at things like campus amenities, social life, the local town, whether the school has the major they want, how highly ranked the school’s program is for that major, how prestigious the school’s brand name is, and so forth. Most people don’t worry about the cost at all until after graduation, when the loans come due.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
12/15/2017 at 02:45, STARS: 0
Unless you live relatively close to those US universities, why would you even consider them? Pick one somewhere else. Canada, one of the many European countries, Australia, all better options IMHO.
My girlfriend is moving from a PhD to a post doc position and has studied in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland while in the last few years she’s been attending multiple academic conferences at the renowned unis in New York and Boston. You should hear here speak about how shitty it all is in the US compared to what’s she’s used to, and that’s even ignoring the much higher costs in the US.
The only reason to do a full study (as opposed to an exchange semester) in the US is if you want to stay there after you’ve graduated.