by "Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
Published 12/11/2017 at 18:20
by "Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
Published 12/11/2017 at 18:20
Tags: Regular Car Reviews
; Regular Motorcycle Reviews
STARS: 0
I don’t always agree with Mr Regular, but when I do, it’s about bikes.
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Spot on with each and every one of these. I own one. Ride with a friend who rides another. Buying the third for the missus.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
12/11/2017 at 18:36, STARS: 0
Ill fucking say it.
The ninja 250 is a HORRIBLE bike. Cbr 250 was WAY better
Who tf keeps carbs until 2012. Why was the motor left alone for almost 20 years. If not more.
It feels top heavy, has no balls low down (even for a 250) and the brakes sucked.
300 was better, even if the motor was nothing more then a bit more bore and stroke and FI.
"jimz" (jimz)
12/11/2017 at 19:31, STARS: 0
because emissions controls only apply to bikes 280cc and larger, and carbs are soo much cheaper than FI.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
12/11/2017 at 19:44, STARS: 0
in canada emissions apply to everything. dont matter if its a 50 or a 2100cc
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
12/11/2017 at 19:46, STARS: 0
Ah the 250... Almost brought a tear to my eye. Really great video. Funny thing is that I too got my bike with the flush front turn signals and the rear fender elim (lol at that part of the video - but seriously, it’s way better looking without one). It did also have a Muzzy exhaust and it’s loud a.f. and I’d 100% rather a sweet sounding loud 250 than a dead silent one - so I do disagree with that part of the video. I’ll have to share the video with a friend who just got their license and use it to convince them to buy mine XD
"jimz" (jimz)
12/11/2017 at 19:56, STARS: 0
looks like I was working on old info. Canada is pretty much aligned with the EPA; it’s just that a 250 or smaller can still meet the standards with a carb.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
12/12/2017 at 08:15, STARS: 1
So basically, what’s going on here is that nowadays, in the federal regime, 279 and smaller cc have had (arguably) more lax emissions standards since 2006 (2004 for California), definitely more lax emissions standards since 2010 (2008 for California), and have always had shorter emissions warranties.
And, a motorcycle emitting the maximums today would be multiple times what a new car 20 years ago was allowed to emit. That is why carbs can still exist, especially below 280 cc.
Now for the boring long shit.
To be exact, here’s what’s going on in the US. (Or, just read this PDF from the EPA.)
From 1978 to 2005, all motorcycles 50+ cc had the same emissions standards (with no standards for under 50 cc) - 5.0 g/km hydrocarbon emissions, and 12.0 g/km carbon monoxide emissions.
However, the useful life and emissions warranty was different for each class - while it was 5 years for everything, 50-169 cc was 12,000 km warranty, 170-279 cc was 18,000 km, and 280+ cc was 30,000 km. So, a manufacturer was required to replace emissions-related parts for longer on a 280 cc+ bike.
In 2006, sub-50 cc bikes began being regulated (with a 6000 km emissions warranty). For 0-279 cc, the HC standard was reduced to 1.0 g/km HC, or an optional standard of 1.4 g/km HC+NOx fleet average. For 280+ cc, you’re forced to the 1.4 g/km HC+NOx fleet average standard.
And, in 2010, 280+ cc has been held to an 0.8 g/km HC+NOx standard.
Now, you’ve got California’s standards as well, and they’re here .
Oddly, California standards were more lax in 1978 and 1979, and 50 cc still isn’t regulated there (but it’s regulated under federal standards). However, 1980 was harmonized with federal standards, 1982 dropped 50-279 cc to 1.0 g/km HC and 280+ cc to 2.5 g/km HC, 1985 moved 280+ cc to 1.4 g/km HC+NOx fleet average, 1988 moved 280-699 cc to 1.0 g/km HC only fleet average and 700+ cc to 1.4 g/km HC only fleet average. The 2004 standards for 280+ cc are what became the 2006 federal standards, and the 2008 standards for 280+ cc are what became the 2010 federal standards.
And, California has evaporative emissions standards, but that doesn’t affect carbs.
Finally, as far as the actual test cycle... 170+ cc is required to use the same UDDS (city) cycle as cars (although cars use it in FTP-75 form, which repeats the first 505 seconds after a hot soak), whereas 169- cc uses a slightly modified UDDS that reduces power demand during the high power phase.
So, let’s compare to cars.
The tier 1 emissions standards, which were phased in beginning in 1994 through 1997, allowed the following:
Up to 5 years, 50,000 miles: .41 g/mi HC, 1.0 g/mi NOx for diesels, 0.4 g/mi NOx for gasoline (note that this is 1.41 g/mi HC+Nox for diesel and .81 g/mi HC+NOx for gasoline), 3.4 g/mi CO, and .08 g/mi particulate matter for diesels. Or, in g/km, that’s .25 g/km HC, .62 g/km diesel NOx, .25 g/km gasoline NOx (for a total of .5 g/km gasoline HC+NOx, .88 g/km diesel HC+NOx), 2.1 g/km CO, and .05 g/mi particulate matter for diesels.
The standards get more lax for 10 years/100,000 miles, but they’re still tighter than today’s motorcycles!
Basically, a model year 1997 gasoline car had to have just over 1/3 of the HC+NOx emissions of a 279- cc motorcycle, or not much over 1/2 of the HC+NOx emissions of a 280+ cc motorcycle today, and just over 1/6 of the CO emissions of either motorcycle, at the same age. And the motorcycle’s PM emissions aren’t regulated, but then neither were a gasoline car’s back then. Oh, and the emissions warranty for that is, IIRC, 80,000 miles.
Tier 2 Bin 5, which you effectively needed to sell in California in 2004, and phased in through 2007 for Federal emissions, dropped things to .075 g/mi (or .047 g/km) NMOG, .015 g/mi (.009 g/km) HCHO, .05 g/mi (.03 g/km) NOx, and 3.4 g/mi (2.1 g/km) CO, (and a .01 g/mi particulate matter standard from the full useful life column) after 5 years, 50,000 miles - a modern car is emitting at most a bit over a tenth of the 280+ cc motorcycle’s HC+NOx, a bit under a 16th of the 279- cc motorcycle’s HC+NOx, and a bit over a 6th of the motorcycles’ CO. Note that this is an old emissions bin that’s being phased out gradually, too.