by "Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
Published 12/11/2017 at 10:12
by "Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
Published 12/11/2017 at 10:12
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My new to me WRX came with slightly worn all seasons that just don’t cut it. I’d like more stopping and turning power in the snow. Are studded tires worth the extra noise?
Edit: The general consensus seems to be that modern snow tire compounds are so good that studs are pointless unless you regularly drive on ice. Thanks!
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
12/11/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 1
Do you live somewhere that ice is a constant, unending threat during winter? Or are you just looking for something that will give you extra traction on those 10-15 days the white stuff falls from the sky.
If option 1 describes you, studs
If option 2 describes you, no studs.
"diplodicus" (diplodicus)
12/11/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 1
I think the studs are for icy conditions. I don’t live where they are legal though.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
12/11/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 4
My opinion: no. Not unless you’re frequently trying to get up an icy hill like a driveway. Around here, the only cars I see with AWD and studded snows are those that live up some absurd dirt road or dirt driveway - they tend to become vertical skating rinks with a nice freeze-thaw cycle that we seem to be getting more of these days - along with rain, ugh. With my AWD and regular snows, I’ve never had trouble going anywhere my ground clearance would let me, including a gently-sloped road I go down fairly often that’s not a real road, so it tends to become a giant sheet of blue ice.
Now, FWD, that might be different. But still I never had studs on any FWD car, so long as the snows were good.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
12/11/2017 at 10:42, STARS: 1
Studs only help with ice.
"Maxima Speed" (maximaspeed)
12/11/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 1
For me they are only worth it during January and if it’s a really bad winter into February. They help with the ice, a lot. This year I’m leaving in my all seasons until it gets crazy then I’ll put my studded tires on for a moth or so.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
12/11/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 0
No to studs. I grew up in northern NY which could get quite icy for decent stretches and never needed them there. I can’t stand hearing the clickety-click of studded tires, especially when they’re in a locale where the aren’t absolutely necessary, and I don’t think there are a whole lot of places where they are absolutely necessary. There’s an Acura MDX in my neighborhood that rocks studs year round. Idiots.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/11/2017 at 10:59, STARS: 2
Studs are illegal in many places including here in Wisconsin.
Even if they are legal where you live, the choice you should be considering is whether you want studless winter tires or performance winter tires.
Studless winter tires have the best possible winter traction (outside of studs) but their handling characteristics outside of winter conditions are very un-sporty.
Performance winter tires don’t have quite as much winter capability, but are still much much better than all-seasons, and the rest of the time they try to do a halfway decent impression of a sporty all-season tire.
Personally I’ve run performance winters on both my Mazdaspeed 6 and my 335xi. Unless you’re going to be plowing through extra deep snow on the regular, you’ll probably enjoy performance winters more because they don’t totally kill the fun of the car outside winter conditions.
I have Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 on my 335xi and I love these tires. Some snow tires can have some tread growl but these are reasonably quiet while also giving that nice mix of sporty-ish dry/wet handling and upgraded winter capability.
Other common performance winter tires are the Bridgestone Blizzak LM, Pirelli Winter Sottozero, and Dunlop SP Winter Sport series. But these Michelin PA4s are much nicer than the Blizzak LM-25s I had on my MS6.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
12/11/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 1
Don’t bother with studs, modern winter tire rubber is better than studs. I don’t know why people still buy studded tires... Any good set of modern winter tires and you’ll be good to go (I have run Blizzaks for years, but it’s more because they’re readily available. My next set will be Nokians due to the conditions where I live.).
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
12/11/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 1
There are studies out there showing that studs are good in a narrow range of winter conditions; ice. But that winter tires are better than studs in snow, slush, broader temperatures, easier on roads and quieter.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:09, STARS: 0
I go out on purpose every time it snows for some fun, which is my #1 priority with the tires. Unfortunately I just give up on grip driving until spring. My thought is that studs would be best for midnight snowstorm excursions.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:10, STARS: 0
I’m thinking that studded snows would make transitioning out of an AWD slide easier, this is primarily a hoonage based decision as I give up on grip driving during the winter.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:11, STARS: 0
Studs year round!? lol. I have heard the sound, its insanely loud.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:12, STARS: 0
I’m impressed, that’s what everyone seems to think. Tires are so high tech these days.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 0
I’m a 10-15er for sure, but on those days I will be out and about on purpose for fun. The noise would probably kill the fun though, thinking of it in terms of numbers makes it sound unappealing...
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 0
That sounds reasonable. I’m in a similar climate, January and February are brutal but thats it.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:14, STARS: 0
actual snow is my main interest, so it seems like studless is really the way to go these days.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
12/11/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 1
Hoonage rips the studs out of tires very quickly. Unless you are on packed snow or ice the studs will pull themselves out under something as simple as a hard launch.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/11/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 2
If you regularly drive studded tires on non-snowy roads you’ll grind down the studs.
If you’re limiting your midnight snow excursions to reasonable amounts of snow and not like, a foot, I would still recommend the performance winters.
If you don’t have experience with winter tires even those will feel like a lot more winter capability than you’ve experienced and they won’t be dreadful to drive the rest of the time.
If you’re fine with having tires that feel like glazed donuts in normal conditions then go with a studless winter.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
12/11/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 1
Yep. And winters are mild enough here in CO that they aren’t needed at all. Snow, let alone ice, rarely stays on the roads longer than a day or two, even on side streets. But I guess for that 1 day a year they might be helpful, it’s worth it to them.
"jimz" (jimz)
12/11/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 3
no. studs only really help with traction on ice. for mostly snow you want a soft-compound winter tire with tall tread blocks and zillions of sipes.
"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012)
12/11/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 1
Back in Russia, most winter driving is done with studded tires... only because most cars were rear wheel drives and studded tires were legal there.
In US, I believe they are not legal.
Imagine the stopping power of a studded set of tires compared to some joe shmoe on summer tires on his cell behind you. Joe just wants to be in your back seat telling you a story how this one time he was driving and ended up in your back seat.
They are effective and good, but consider how much more stopping power you will have compared to people around you
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
hahah oh man no studs then thats for sure
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
12/11/2017 at 11:31, STARS: 1
if the primary concern is just snow driving, studs don’t help with that. studs help on ice, they do little to nothing on straight snow. Just get the non-studded snow tires.
Also, don’t go for narrower tires, get them in whatever the stock size is for your car. 95+% of your driving will be done on dry/non-frozen wet pavement where the extra width will be useful. For the snow driving you do partake in, you’ll lose a little bit of ability to drive through the deep stuff, but if it’s bad enough that you will get stuck with normal sized tires, you shouldn’t be trying it on narrow ones.
"XC99TF00" (XC99TF00)
12/11/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 1
Just had Nokian Hakka R2's put on my car Saturday in advance of the snow. They are fantastic and worked great on some icy patches that refroze overnight. I was shocked at how much better they were than the old RSi’s that I had taken off.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
12/11/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 1
Oh, then definitely get snows and leave the studs out. I have so much fun in my AWD car all winter with my snows. Right now they’re not on yet, and I played in an unplowed parking lot this morning. WOW, it’s easy to slide and much harder to pull it back! More fun? Eh, maybe. Rear-biased AWD is so easy to slide, though, I’ll put the snows on soon.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
12/11/2017 at 12:22, STARS: 0
I’ll second the Michelin Pilot Alpin - that’s what I have now and they are the quietest snows I’ve ever had. They aren’t horrendous to use on dry pavement in terms of handling (like most dedicated snows) and they do just fine in the snow. I know they’re not the cheapest, but I’ll be buying another set next winter, this is my 3rd winter on these.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
Yep absolutely, I’m going to turn the stock wheels into the winter tire set.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 1
YES exactly, its too hard to pull back on all seasons. I’ve never hooned a powerful car either
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
Yeah it sounds like studs are ultra pointless and would get destroyed in a season. No bueno.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 0
Oh yeah I definitely want some Nokians! I trust the Swedes.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 2
Nope many places in the US, including my state, allow them during certain times of the year.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 1
oooooh sipes now theres a word I forgot about.
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
12/11/2017 at 13:24, STARS: 2
If you regularly drive on rural gravel roads, the snow left after plowing gets packed and refreezes somewhat icy. For those, studded tires can be a benefit.
If you regularly drive on paved roads, once the sun comes out the blacktop tends to melt the remaining snow residue, and the roads are largely clear in between storms. For those, studded tires and loud and annoying (and also shorten the life of the asphalt). Go stud-less.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 1
Not a single person has said studded! I’m glad I asked, I was considering being a bimbo about it and just ordering studs.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/11/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
Unless you’re looking for absolute maximum deep snow traction, based on my experience with performance winters on sporty awd cars, that’s really what I recommend.
I also tried performance winters on my NB Miata back in the day and ended up swapping them out for studless winters. That car even with an LSD needed more help from the tires. But that’s a Miata, not a WRX.
Apparently the Michelin PA4 doesn’t come in 17” sizes. Your available options are the new Blizzak LM001 and Pirelli Sottozero 3. The Michelin PA4 had the best winter marks in this test , with the older Blizzak LM60 in second ahead of the Pirelli. So between the new Blizzak LM001 and the Pirelli, I’d probably go Blizzak.
The Pirelli was sportier in non-snow/ice conditions but even though we’re talking performance winter tires to get more sporty handling than studless winter tires, I still would have the best winter traction for the category.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
12/11/2017 at 13:59, STARS: 2
Yes, general consensus is correct. I have not used studded tires in a very long time. Using Bridgstone WS70/WS80 on my cars in NW Montana with zero issues. One is a subaru outback and the other is a Mazda 3. I hate studs, they are noisy and handle like shit on dry pavement. If you go over 80 mph cars tend to start throwing studs off the tire too so there is also that to consider. Obliviously driving long distances on long straight roads like I90 in Montana cruise is usually set at 80-85 mph.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
12/11/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 1
It seems you’ve already found the answer.
Another thing to consider is, if you have RWD and do a brake stand with studdded tires you can dig a hole in concrete! my brother found that out with one of his turbo 740s. We still lived at home, and he went to rip a burn out after a basketball game in early May. In our driveway no lease, my dad was not impressed.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/11/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 0
whoah okay yeah I definitely go over eighty, that’s important info
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
12/11/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 0
Even on icy surfaces, a good quality stud-less winter tire will do pretty well, but I will admit studs do provide an extra level of performance. I personally don’t enjoy driving on studs most of the time, but they are a good fit for some people and locations.
Another data point that matters to *some* people: no studded tires are going to be available in high speed ratings. If your driving (legally or not) is such that you should be rocking H- or V-rated tires, then the performance winter tire category is what to look for.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
12/11/2017 at 21:19, STARS: 0
To be fair, a WRX or a Volvo S40 with the T5 are among the most powerful cars I’ve hooned properly in the snow. OK, a Suburban, but that’s like drifting a cruise ship. Man, it made an enormous cloud of snow, though. I wish I had that on video, but it was like, pre-iphone era even. I know, the dark ages.
What were we talking about?
Oh yeah, I already have tomorrow off because of snow, and I’m debating if my son (5) is old enough to hold a camera steady while I do many donuts in my car, in the cul-de-sac in front of our house. He’ll probably just want to ride in the car...
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/12/2017 at 09:51, STARS: 1
hahahah wow. See now I have to try this. The next time I have a RWD car, its on!
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
12/12/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 1
Don’t do studs, they start to fly out and chip paint over 85mph. I had them on the STi the first year i had it and never since. It’s more fun to drift and not worry about ripping out all the studs
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
12/12/2017 at 15:57, STARS: 1
Yikes. The paint chipping is no good! And we all know how durable Subaru paint is.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
12/12/2017 at 17:32, STARS: 1
Most cars are coated with paint....with Subarus it’s more of a thin veneer of paint.