by "450X_FTW" (mistermic)
Published 12/08/2017 at 12:39
by "450X_FTW" (mistermic)
Published 12/08/2017 at 12:39
No Tags
STARS: 6
Alright here’s the short version for a backstory on my truck
2015 GMC Sierra, purchased in August of 2016 with 27k miles on it from a GM Dealer
To date the odometer is at 54k miles
April - transmission was clunking hard between shifts, dealer rebuilds it, everything but the gears, housing, and torque converter were replaced
August - brake pad corroded and fell apart
September - rear diff was rebuilt due to clunking
2 weeks later rear diff was clunking horribly, to the point I had axle hop just backing into my driveway, I look underneath and see this:
When they towed it away, the rear axle was completely locked up. Actually left tire marks on my driveway from dragging it on to the flat bed. Here’s what the tech found:
They replace everything in the rear diff this time. I picked it up a week later and as soon as I hit 55 mph, axle whine, clear as day. Few weeks go by, clunking issues are back, axle whine gets worse. I take it to a different dealer for them to inspect. They looked at the history and said “if we find out it’s a quality of workmanship issue from the previous dealer, we can’t warranty it and you’ll have to pay for it out of pocket”. F THAT. So back to the original dealer. This time they replace the entire rear axle assembly. Picked up the truck 2 days ago.
Now I told you that part to tell you this part. Since the beginning of August I’ve been on the phone with “GM’s Customer Support”, starting with the corroded brake pad. As a powertrain engineer who works for a tier 1 supplier, with GM as one of my customers, if I had parts in the field that looked like this I would absolutely want to know about it so I could chew my suppliers out for defective anti corrosion coatings. Never mind the fact that it happened after the basic 36k warranty was up, it shouldn’t happen at all. Only thing GM told me was that they suggest I talk to the dealership about it, which is useless, because the dealer is just going to throw the parts in the trash, not send them back to GM’s warranty dept.
These phone calls happened about once or twice a week with GM, since my truck was also developing a clunking noise from the rear end around the same time. Fast forward to the 2nd rear diff replacement, when I posted videos of the diff leaking fluid on my driveway to GM’s facebook page along with history and a long rant, my case was moved up to “GM Executive Customer Assistance” (ECA rep for simplicity in my post). Every time I talked with them, my patience became less, and my anger increased. These people have the least amount of technical knowledge for how a vehicle works, let alone the parts that make up a vehicle. Before I could explain the issues to them that I was having with my rear diff, I had to explain to them what a rear diff was. I promise I am not making that up. It is painfully obvious that they are reading from a script when providing feedback to me.
I drive the truck, still have clunking issues, still have axle whine issues, both very frequent. I repeatedly ask the ECA rep that someone from engineering or quality at GM be informed of the constant problems with my truck because this is far from normal. I offered to give GM my truck for someone from engineering to drive for a week, a month, anything to get someone knowledgeable in the seat. Only thing I’m told by the ECA is “I can ask around but I’m not sure where to start”. Further frustration from my side. If I were to tell GM I don’t know the answer to their question about one of our products, they expect me to find the answer, or find the person who can answer their question
My questions were along the lines of “why did my rear diff fail twice in 2 weeks, what did your quality dept say about my brake pad that fell apart from corrosion, what was the feedback from the quality, engineering, depts if they want to drive my truck” and all they keep telling me is I have to speak with the dealer about the diff (dealer can tell you what failed, 99% of time cannot tell you WHY it failed, that’s the suppliers job, mine). For the brakes, they just say that brakes are a wear item and it’s going to depend on how the previous owner drove it as well. Apparently driving habits can make the backing plate of a brake pad be eaten away by corrosion?
Frustration from my side mounts. I start asking about buy back, refund, anything to get me out of this damn POS truck. After weeks of back and forth, I’m finally told the district service manager is willing to offer $1,000 towards a new GM vehicle. That was it. Nothing more. No special pricing, rebates, employee discounts. Every person I talk to who works for GM was dumbfounded and responded with “that’s ridiculous, they need to offer a lot more”. I talked to 2 dealers, and if I were to trade in, and the offers were $9k-10k less than what I paid for the truck a year prior.
4 months of being on the phone with GM customer assistance, and the only thing it has done is showed me they have absolutely zero care about vehicles in the field, zero interest in answering a customers technical questions or addressing concerns. They might as well have an auto response telling you “please speak to the dealer” because that’s all I was ever told.
Today I talked to the ECA rep again, to see if the district service manager was willing to increase the offer, she said nope, $1000 is it. Was also told I cannot speak to the district manager because they do not interact with customers. So the ECA is representing GM’s district manager, quality, engineering, warranty dept, because I am not allowed to talk to any of those people I’m told. The ECA is literally representing GM as an entire company, and extremely poorly at that. This was part of the conversation from today after being told $1000 offer was it:
Me: okay can you put that in an email and send it to me please
ECA: sorry we’re not allowed to put offers in writing
Me: so how would I even be able to get the $1000 towards a new vehicle
ECA: well that’s something you have to work out with the dealership
Me: so I go to the dealer, tell them the district service manager offered me $1000 towards a new vehicle? How can they confirm this?
ECA: well that’s something you have to work out with the dealership
I’ve given up. This was my first and last GM vehicle I ever plan to own.
And if anyone from GM happens to read this, my service reference number is 8-3395598154, the person I’ve been dealing with is Victoria, ext 5911184.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
12/08/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 1
Damn - I’d be frustrated as well.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
12/08/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 3
the short version just doesnt do justice to your frustration. especially that last part where you talk about having to deal with the ECA, who doesnt know anything, and doesnt pass along any relevant information to any relevant parties......
"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
12/08/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 2
Local lemon laws? Because clearly this... needs to go away.
I had a GMC for a while and while my experiance was from from this bad, it wasn’t great. I took the old girl to the dealer exactly once, to get the transfer case to stop leaking. I waited in the room in which one does that for a hour. Then another. Then another. I back to the counter and ask what is up? “Oh, your car is just about ready.” “Uh... we haven’t talked about... anything.... yet.” “Yes, just give us a moment.”
Long story short (too late) they spent that three hours coming up with a huge list of things they want to do to my truck before they’ll do the work I came in for. To their credit, they took me into the shop and showed me the “problems,” one of which ended up being a loose oil filter ($500 if I wanted them to “fix” it).
I asked for my keys back and never called them again.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/08/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 3
Letho to the front desk please. This sounds like a lemon law case if there ever was one.
Regardless of that though... the dealer needs to be beaten over the head with your broken parts
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
For lemon laws, it has to be in to the dealer 4 times for the same issue within 1 year of the initial issue. I’m only at #3 for the diff and since it now has a whole brand new rear axle assembly, I don’t see a failure happening in the next year.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 2
I’ve gone around the ECA at this point and started talking directly to friends of mine at GM. Mainly for the brake pads, not looking for reimbursement, but if the engineer responsible doesn’t want to look at them, then I’ll toss them. I would hope they would at least so they could learn from them
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
The painful part, is honestly being able to talk to that one person, and them alone. “customer assistance” is in their damn job title and they did none of it.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
12/08/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 2
its a cold feeling when the people who design the thing have no interest in looking into why THIER part fell apart HALF IN TWO so far before the end of its service life.
and they dont care, they work at gm, its a big company, they work in a large division, thier job is secure, why should they get thier hands dirty......... its enough to make a guy mad.....
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/08/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
They’re essentially protecting themselves from their own shitty service, too. Is there no way you can just walk into the dealer and find the right office? Might be the only thing to do.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
12/08/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 3
Based on the brake pad corrosion, and the diff and transmission eating themselves, I’m guessing this truck sat in some deep water before you owned it. Or the previous owner went mudding a lot.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 5
As my buddy at GM told me “your truck was built on 2 or 3 holidays”
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
12/08/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 1
Did you just reach up and tighter the filter yourself in front of them? Also, loose oil filters will usually empty tge truck of oil within about five minutes of starting the engine.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 3
Yep big time. Yet if I had a part in the field that was returned for warranty with that level of corrosion on it, GM would have us in daily meetings at 7am until we had explanation, containment, root cause and replacement parts being shipped out
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
12/08/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 2
This sucks big time. I wonder if they had the truck on the lot because of this problem with the previous owner. Is it possible that some other problem is eating rear differentials? I guess I would just keep taking it back to the dealer for repairs until they get it right.
"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
12/08/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
Haha no. I didn’t realize that was the problem until I had my oil changed and the leak went away.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 1
Yes and no. The ECA person works for GM, not the at the dealer level. I even talked with the dealership service manager the other day, asking him if he could provide the district service managers contact info (since the ECA told me they can’t) he said they don’t have the information, I’d have to speak with GM’s Customer Assistance.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 1
I did just that, but for me, I’m done dealing with it. It’s honestly depressing to drive it anymore since I always find clunks in the drive line, excess lash feeling after I tip into the throttle. I just put a deposit down on a Ram 1500 last night.
"facw" (facw)
12/08/2017 at 13:09, STARS: 2
Lemon laws only apply to new cars. This is why they are giving him the runaround, there’s very little legal recourse for him.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
12/08/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 1
That, or the PO drove it through lots of water. Ever do a gear oil analysis before or after they shit the bed?
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
12/08/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 4
Tell the dealer if they don’t buy it back you’ll write a bad review on multiple sites. Online reviews are a big deal for dealers. My dad’s old truck was giving him issues, & he knew what they were but the dealer refused to address them (close to end of warranty). So he E-mailed what he wrote in this bad review before posting it online saying “if you don’t fix the issues I will post this review on multiple review sites”. The issues were fixed the next week.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 1
Did not, everything was under warranty so I never actually saw any of the parts even. Just took it in, they’d have it for a week to replace parts and I’d get it back in OK condition
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
12/08/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 1
sounds like more gm facebook posts are in your near future.
from the sound of it, the only thing that REMOTELY motivates them to any kind of action, is the shame of the public at large seeing the carnage. or maybe its the public at large shaming them into some sort of action, its hard to tell......
in the other hand, dont mess with a good meal ticket...
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:16, STARS: 0
The dealer actually hasn’t been too bad to deal with. They’re at least apologetic, provide me a brand new vehicle as a loaner to drive (side note GM policy is if the dealer has your car more than 2 days they have to provide you a loaner). For me, the dealer is just the sales group and not the technical group. I look to GM for that part and well, they were useless.
"adamftw" (adamftw)
12/08/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 1
Man that sucks. I agree with what your buddy said... this thing was built on a Friday before a three day weekend. Good luck with all that.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
12/08/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 1
I still do it. Losing a good customer is up there with a bad online review.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 1
Facebook was what set them off to escalate it. I posted the video of my diff fluid leaking out and a friend of my wife’s saw it, and showed it to her manager, along with history of my truck. I thought that was when I might see something actually come from it all, but it fizzled basically
"Tristan" (casselts)
12/08/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 1
I’ve said this many times before and I stand by it: GM half-ton trucks are made of glass.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
12/08/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 1
That’s wildly unacceptable. Maybe lawer up? The lemon-law won’t do you any good, but maybe the Magnuson-Moss act will.
"MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig" (MR2_FTW)
12/08/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 1
This really ought to be posted on /r/cars. Reddit can make some crazy stuff happen.
"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
12/08/2017 at 15:31, STARS: 1
Lehto did something on his podcast about the Magnuson-Moss act - it might help you get some cash or a buyback even if the truck doesn’t qualify as a lemon. I think this is it.
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"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
12/08/2017 at 15:42, STARS: 3
I know why your diff failed twice in 2 weeks. American Axle makes it. “GM’s supplier of the year” in 2016.
Your brake pad corroding to the point of falling apart is a safety issue, I’d contact GM’s speak up for safety line. I’d also contact the NHTSA.
As a supplier on GM supply power you have access to the GM speak up for safety program FYI. I’d also leverage your contacts in powertrain.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 15:48, STARS: 0
Thanks! I’ll give that a listen tonight
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/08/2017 at 15:49, STARS: 1
Very good points, thanks!
And this is why I prefer Dana. Doing an axle swap on my 94 Wrangler, 129k miles on the D30 and D35 axles I bought, and there is zero lash in that diff, so smooth.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
12/08/2017 at 16:40, STARS: 0
ecodiesel?
"brianbrannon" (brianbrannon)
12/08/2017 at 21:00, STARS: 0
You’re doing it wrong. Unless the dealer is refusing to fix the rear end then there’s no reason for GM to get involved. And please stop complaining about brake pads lasting 50,000 miles “only”.
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/09/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 1
The dealer replaced the entire rear axle this time. And the break pad didn’t last 50k miles, there was still over a 1/4" of pad left. The pad should wear out before it falls apart from corrosion
"450X_FTW" (mistermic)
12/09/2017 at 19:00, STARS: 0
5.7L. Tows better than the 3.0L
"I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker" (qaaaaa)
12/09/2017 at 21:31, STARS: 0
“if we find out it’s a quality of workmanship issue from the previous dealer, we can’t warranty it and you’ll have to pay for it out of pocket”
Eff. That. Can you get it lemon lawed as a second customer?
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
12/14/2017 at 11:34, STARS: 0
If it was damage from that though the problems would have disappeared after the first axle swap. There wouldn’t be anything left in the diff that could have been damaged by water immersion. This has to be a wholesale material failure.