by "promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
Published 12/07/2017 at 00:42
by "promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
Published 12/07/2017 at 00:42
Tags: Photography
STARS: 0
Hi folks,
I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a better (read: not phone) camera in the ~$350-or-less range with manual controls.
Should I go for a DSLR like this D3400:
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Or stick with something like a G9 X Mark II?
Hard budget because I’ll only use it maybe once-or-twice a week.
I’m a big believer in the whole “only a bad carpenter blames his tools” philosophy - in other words, I’m a cheap bastard - so the less shit I buy, the better. My last stand-alone camera was a Canon PowerShot and I had a lot of fun playing with the different controls.
Size is the driving decision since I plan to throw this in my backpack when I go on a sunset/long hike, but I’m willing to give an inch if the extra controls are worth it.
"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury)
12/07/2017 at 01:09, STARS: 0
Get the Canon. I picked up an old G10 a few months ago and find it to be an excellent camera that does 97% of the stuff I need a camera to do, so much so that I cannot remember the last time I used the DSLR. Those higher-end Canons are amazingly capable and full-featured.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
12/07/2017 at 01:11, STARS: 0
The Nikon DSLR is not a thing to throw in a pack. The cheaper kit lenses tend to have a plastic shoe that is easily broken through pressure on the lense. We know this from experience.
I just picked up an Olympus TG5 as a pack alternative to our Nikon.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
12/07/2017 at 01:14, STARS: 4
Used Canon T5i or similar. Find some cool old lenses and adapters. Interchangeable lenses make life fun. Especially when they are old and cheap.
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
12/07/2017 at 01:20, STARS: 1
Just my opinion but Nikon’s lower end SLR’s suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I have a D3xxx something or other. I forget. It’s a piece of shit and sits in a bag. I don’t even know why I still have it. If you want an entry-level SLR, Canon makes a much better one. We have them at work - so much nicer than my Nikon. Bigger question is what do you really want the SLR for? The G9 X will take great photos - I had a Sony RX100 Mark IV for a little while and the 1” sensor is really capable in tough conditions. The sensor still isn’t big enough to do portrait-style photography with really blurred backgrounds. You need to move up to an MFT or APS-C sensor for that which is going to mean a bigger body, but there are some Olympus MFT cameras that are pretty small and can still do great portraits with the right lenses. A coworker of mine has one - I don’t know what the model number is but it’s about 75% of the size of my Nikon and makes bonkers good photos with an f/1.8 lens. I remember she paid under $500 for it with the kit lens around 2 years ago so they’re probably available for $350-ish now.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
12/07/2017 at 01:23, STARS: 4
You’re better off with the d3400 since it has a changeable lens. That gives your more flexibility for when you eventually outgrow the kit lens and want to get into more fancy glass.
Also think about how long you’ll use it for every time you take it out. Will you just snap a few pics and call it day? Or will you be using it for several hours? The DSLR will allow you to hold it longer due to the shape of the grip and the neck strap. A point and shoot gets annoying to hold after 10 minutes.
The other thing is the battery life on a DSLR will be a lot better than something like the G9x so also consider that. On a DSLR you can expect around several hundred shots before it needs to be recharged. The point and shoot needs to power the screen and will not last as long. This may not apply but a DSLR is also more rugged. I’ve taken my Canon into snow, heat, and humidity and it has still functioned flawlessly. The camera was covered in snow and stayed outside in 10 degrees F and still functioned like nothing changed. Same story with 90% humidity at 80 degrees F.
Lastly, it’s more of a personal preference but I find using the meter and viewfinder to expose and compose my images manually more satisfying than adjusting the on screen image to the proper exposure and composure, however that’s just me. Different strokes for different folks.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
12/07/2017 at 01:24, STARS: 1
I was trying to be impartial about suggesting Canon since s/he seemed set on Nikon. Seems I should have just did it since most people are doing that lol.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
12/07/2017 at 01:33, STARS: 0
Buy the Nikon or Canon body you want, then spend the money for a fast lens (f1.4 or 1.8 50mm) whether new or used. The lens they sell you in the package is often shite.
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
12/07/2017 at 01:34, STARS: 2
It depends entirely on whether you think you will take the larger SLR with you. I started out with a Canon g10, loved it and clicked off 10,000 frames then picked up a big 70d that was on sale. The 70d is a great camera and I really like it, but I just don’t carry it frequently enough. So, I got a newer little g16, small enough and cheap enough so that I routinely carry it and don’t mind dropping it or getting it stolen when I’m out hiking, etc.
Funny story about my original g10 - I was hiking Mt. Pilchuck in NW Washington when I got distracted by another guy up the trail having lunch on a rock. I stopped and turn to say “hi”, then took one step back... I dropped off the trail, landing right on the camera which I had in a sling at my side and slid about 30ft down a steep scree field before I got myself stopped. It scared the crap out of both me and the guy having lunch that just saw my fall off the damn mountain. My left leg, one elbow and hands were all torn up but after I cleaned the camera up it worked just fine.
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
12/07/2017 at 02:23, STARS: 0
I have no experience with the cheaper DX Nikons, but I’m quite happy with my D5500. If you’re looking for something smaller and simpler, maybe a mirrorless that still has interchangeable lenses?
"promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
12/07/2017 at 03:49, STARS: 0
I mostly plan on taking a few pics at a time over the course of a day maybe once-or-twice a week. I’ll be in a “Ooh that looks nice” moment on an evening hike but my phone turns it into a grainy and noisy mess.
You bring up a good point about the manual viewfinder. That’s definitely a welcome option, but I’m willing to let it go.
I guess this doesn’t look good for the G9, but if there’s another model which is a better fit, I’m all ears.
"adamftw" (adamftw)
12/07/2017 at 07:29, STARS: 0
A full size DSLR is too big to just “take with you.” I switched to Micro 4/3s and its been a great change... nice small camera that fits anywhere. I have an Olympus but this Fuji is a GREAT camera in your budget. I usually recommend Sony stuff (and I sort of regret not going that way myself) but those are above your price range.
"Agrajag" (Agrajag)
12/07/2017 at 07:30, STARS: 0
Go with the D3400.
I have the D3300 and take it with me on my hikes and long drives . It has been a great companion and taken its fair share of abuse.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/07/2017 at 08:10, STARS: 0
I like my D5100. The D3400 is probably better even though it’s a lower model, just because it’s 3 generations newer.
That said, I barely use it anymore unless it’s for action... phone cameras have just gotten so good it’s rarely worth lugging around.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
12/07/2017 at 09:27, STARS: 0
I’m in the same boat. I’m casually trying to figure out the most affordable camera that both has manual focus and shoots in RAW. My current camera works fine but it’s more of a point-n-shoot with a good lens than a true DSLR.
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
12/07/2017 at 12:09, STARS: 1
I’m by no means an expert, but I just got in to the get-a-real-camera game earlier this year and went the DSLR route (Sony a600) and figured I’d share my experience so far. I have primarily been using it for travel, walks/hikes, car shows, etc. about once a week on average. I had a lot to learn, coming in with only cell phone and cheap point-and-shoot experience, but it’s been a rewarding process which has yielded some excellent photos that I don’t think I’d have been able to capture otherwise. It’s been very helpful in lower-light situations like some of those you mentioned. For instance, this was taken around 5AM to avoid the usual mob of tourists:
On the practical side of things, the a6000 is a mirrorless DSLR, which cuts down on the body size substantially, but tends to be a bit more expensive ($500+ range), so checking various used listings for something in that category might also be worth considering. With the 16-50mm kit lens, it still isn’t pocket-sized, but it’ll at least fit into most small-medium backpack pouches and isn’t fatiguing to leave hanging around my neck. Battery life has been decent in spite of the screen + digital viewfinder, lasting through several hours and hundreds of photos with judicious use of the power switch and various settings (brightness, airplane mode, etc.). It’s still shorter-lived than the standard style of DSLR, however.
However, once all of the additional equipment comes into play, (additional lens, cleaning tools, collapsible tripod, etc.) it’s just as cumbersome as any other DSLR. Having a decent backpack with a dedicated camera section has helped reduce the hassle substantially, but it still adds time and work to the process which might not be worth it to every one. In my case, I was content to dive right on in to the deep end, but I can definitely understand the appeal of something like that G9X for the sake of having something quick, easy, and practical that will still fare much better than a cell phone.
"sonicgabe" (gabeloewenberg)
12/07/2017 at 12:26, STARS: 0
Go for the D3400. It’s a solid camera to get you started beyond your phone. Do some reading up on ISO, f-stop, and shutter speed (which it sounds like you have a pretty good idea about). The D3400 has a lot more options to play with than any point and shoot will. But it also does have an Auto mode, so you can point and shoot if you don’t have the time to dial it in yourself. It’s totally worth being a little bigger.
You’d be surprised at how not big it can be. I used to put my travel camera bag (which had my camera, two lenses, and a handful of small things like filters and batteries) inside a standard Jansport backpack for walking around places like New York City. I still had plenty of room in the backpack for other things. If you just toss the camera in your bag, you won’t even notice it.
And always shoot in RAW as you’ll have more to work with when editing. Get a decent photo-editing program. There are several free ones out there, or you can get a Photoshop Creative Cloud monthly subscription that includes Photoshop and Lightroom for $10/month.
As already mentioned, you can start buying other lenses for it when you are ready to expand.
One last note, the 24 mp sensor in the D3400 is a really great sensor. Nikon put it (or a virtually identical version of it) in a lot of cameras for several years. It’ll give you far better results than the sensor in the GX9. The GX9 is 20 mp, but the sensor is about half the size of the one in Nikon. So, even though they are close in the number of pixels, they aren’t even in the same league.
Feel free to pop into Photography any time to share pics and ask us questions.
Most importantly, just get out and shoot!
"horizonsofkhaos" (horizonsofkhaos)
12/07/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 0
For someone just getting their feet wet the smaller Nikon’s are fine. Basically any entry level DSLR is fine. I’ve got a D5300 sitting on my desk that I’ve taken photos with that have ended up on billboards, print ads, t-shirts, etc. Do they have limitations? Of course. However they’re still good enough to get introduced to higher end photography.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
12/07/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
I would go with this combo:
Canon t5 for $255
https://www.keh.com/shop/canon-rebel-t5-digital-camera-body-18-m-p.html
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 for $70
https://www.keh.com/shop/18-55-f3-5-5-6-ef-s-iii-58-rebel-xt-20d-30d-40d-300d-lens-1.html
Those will give you a similar range in terms of quality and zoom but the camera will be better quality. That will also save you $25. KEH is one of the most reputable used camera equipment sellers online and they’re very strict with their used equipment inspections. Usually they’re almost immaculate when they rate it as ex+.
I personally prefer how Canons feel in my hand. They’re not as hollow feeling and the grip fits better in my hand. That said, I don’t have the t5 so what I’m saying may not carry over. However I have used enough of their cameras to make a guess that the t5 is probably similar fee and quality. I have used a d3400 and I dislike it. The grip is taller than it is wide and the camera is small so my fingers get wedges between the lens and the grip so it does cause some discomfort over time. That may just be a feature of all smaller DSLRs though so perhaps try one out to see how your hand fits. Features are also buried under menus and function buttons and the lens always has this strange tick sound whenever it focuses. It’s not loud but it is audible to me and annoys me. My girlfriend never noticed the sound until I pointedly it out though so your mileage may vary.
"thejustache" (thejustache)
12/07/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 1
Not to nitpick what you’ve said (I have an a6000 myself and love it) the a6000 is just a mirrorless camera, not a DSLR. DSLR is short for digital single lens reflex - meaning there is a mirror that reflects exactly what you see through the lens, into a prism and finally into an optical viewfinder.
Functionally, a mirrorless and a DSLR act much the same, and indeed mirrorless offers some advantages you mentioned in terms of size etc, and the digital viewfinder it has it pretty good once you get used to it. It’s still different than a DSLR, however.
"thejustache" (thejustache)
12/07/2017 at 13:59, STARS: 0
I was in a similar boat this spring and wound up going with a used Sony a6000, which is a mirrorless camera that allows for changeable lenses. While a couple years old, it’s still available new however for higher than your price range. I bought mine used on ebay, which is a gamble, but I got the camera body with plenty of life left for about $380. I then bought a focal reducing adapter for Pentax film lenses for about $100 to use the collection of old lenses I already had. The downside of this is no autofocus and it must be run in manual or apeture priorority modes, but the upside is that I had a few nice f1.4 lenses that give me really great depth of field for not a lot of money. For less than $500 I have a kit that can do great looking 24mp shots and is still compact enough to throw in a smaller bag. It’s working out great for me so far, and it has some really nice looking 1080p video as well.
Personally I’d recommend rather than a chunky DSLR or a fixed lens camera taking a look at the mirrorless cameras with interchangeable lenses. If the a6000 is too costly some of the older 18mp Sony NEX models offer many of the same benefits with a few less professional features (wifi connectivity, etc). I’ve seen some of those used for as low as $200, which is a lot of camera for the money! Fuji and Lumix make some great mirrorless cameras as well, although I have no personal experience with them. I’d try to get something with an APS-C sized sensor or larger for maximum depth of field and low light performance, but lots of people like the micro 4/3 format as well. Good luck with the search!
Some shots from my camera, mostly shot with a $25 Pentax SMC-M 50mm f1.7 lens:
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
12/07/2017 at 14:12, STARS: 1
Ah, my mistake. Fair points and good to know.
"thejustache" (thejustache)
12/07/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 0
Yeah, again I normally wouldn’t care as functionally it doesn’t make a huge difference... but since we’re offering camera advice I figured I’d throw that out there to avoid confusion. I love my a6000 though, glad to hear you do too!
"promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
12/07/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 0
https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-rebel-t6-ef-s-18-55mm-f-35-56-is-ii-kit-refurbished
I noticed I can get a refurbished T6 kit for the same price as a T5. Is this just as good?
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
12/07/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 1
It’s not the limitations that bother me. It’s the clunkiness of the low-end Nikons. They take great photos, but they just take a lot more effort than the Rebels. For someone who already knows photography but doesn’t have a big budget they are great, but I think Canon is much better for someone getting in.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
12/08/2017 at 00:15, STARS: 1
Well shit, that’s a solid buy. Forget what I said. Get what you found!
And also remember to post pics here so we can all gawk and see! Flickr is also a nice place to upload images too since you get 1TB of storage for free.
Oh and edit:
I’m not sure your level of photography but I’ll just include this handy reference cheat sheet in case you need it for review:
