by "DasWauto" (DasWauto)
Published 12/06/2017 at 16:00
by "DasWauto" (DasWauto)
Published 12/06/2017 at 16:00
Tags: Autocross
; poutine
STARS: 0
There are a few fellow owners here so I figured I’d poll for some advice. I’m looking to try out some sway bars on my Subaru, mostly to improve perfermance/balance in autocross. To stay in Street I’ll only run one but I intend to buy and try* one front and rear bar. Does anyone here have experience with aftermarket swaybars for these cars?
*I plan to have both and keep the rear bar on the car for street driving and the predominantly small parking lot autocross events around here and switch to the front bar for the (hopefully) 2 faster and more open airport events.
Also, I went to Quebec City last week; it was nice, good times were had.
"SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman" (dasborgen)
12/06/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 0
That’s a lot of swaybars, dude
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 0
Eh, it’s only 2. It’s not like I’d be swapping for every event, or even weekly or monthly. It’s pretty likely that I’ll settle on one and sell the other.
I just want to try both. I expect an upgraded rear swaybar will be more fun but ultimately slower than a stiffer front bar, especially in faster, more open events.
"AkursedX" (akursedx)
12/06/2017 at 16:34, STARS: 0
Something like the Cusco or Hotchkis front sway bar would probably get you the best performance gain in autocross.
"AkursedX" (akursedx)
12/06/2017 at 17:04, STARS: 1
I realized I typed Hotchkis instead of Whiteline. I must have been thinking of my own front bar.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/06/2017 at 17:22, STARS: 0
Looks like most of the different brand bars out there are roughly similar size. 25-26 mm front and 20-22 mm rear. Whiteline makes a 24 mm rear but that might be a bit much especially run on its own.
Since you’re talking about different setups for different tracks, ideally you’d go for the smallest possible bar, which is the Eibach 25 mm, but it’s not adjustable. The Whiteline 26 mm is adjustable.
For the rear, especially since you’re talking about running just the rear with the stock front sometimes, I might stick with a 20 mm adjustable. Whiteline makes one. They also make 22 and 24 mm bars. Maaaybe go for the 22? Eibach and Progress also make adjustable 22 mm bars.
Not sure if you’re allowed to run adjustable end links, but if you are, the Whiteline adjustable end links look to be the most streetable since they have ball joints at both ends. If you got something with heim joints they need to be periodically cleaned and re-greased with something like white lithium grease.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
12/06/2017 at 17:28, STARS: 1
If I ever get into Autocrossing my ‘06 STi I would certainly be considering sway bars. It made the biggest difference on my Miata for sure so I imagine it could work there too to cure the understeer problem. Although playing with the DCCD would also do it for me. Eventually the Miata will be broken when I am trying to go to an event so the Subaru should be a good backup. Except when its also broken I suppose.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
12/06/2017 at 17:42, STARS: 1
I’ve got no particular experience with WRX but I do have some experience with Whiteline products via these guys who are Subaru specialists https://www.mrtperformance.com.au/
Swaybars and links for your car?
"daender" (daender)
12/06/2017 at 19:01, STARS: 0
Poke around whatever Subi forums you’re part of and look whatever setups the D-Street WRXs are running. That said, be careful with upgrading your swaybars. Make sure to research for any potential issues caused by increased loads being transferred through mounts. NA and NB Miatas run solid blocks of aluminum under the front mounts because they are prone to fatigue failure. Miatas will also weld an additional tab for the end link connection on the lower control arms. The single factory steel tab with no reinforcement could shear off from repeated heavy loads.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 20:09, STARS: 1
I’m not an active part of any Subaru forums but I will look for a few good threads on the topic.
Being careful of the increased loading is a good point - a couple of rear sway bar kits I’ve seen include reinforcements for the mounts to prevent lateral movement. Those that do usually have collars on the swaybars themselves to stop them moving laterally within the mounts as well so I have to figure out if the mounts are a concern if the swaybars is restrained in that axis and the mounts are not braced.
Thanks for the input.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 20:14, STARS: 1
I agree that a front swaybar would likely provide the bigger performance improvement. A rear bar would go more toward addressing handling balance of the car but could ultimately cost me grip if it brings a tendency to unload or even lift the inside rear wheel, which I really don’t want with open diffs at both ends.
There are a lots of options out there - Perrin, Whiteline, Cusco, Eibach, Racecomp Engineering, etc. I’m considering the latter two of those strongly because they are reputable and sell bundled front and rear bars, which is nice.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 20:17, STARS: 1
Understeer on these cars is a bit overblown but also solved easily enough. Just don’t drive it like a rear wheel drive car and put some extra pressure in the rear tires and you can have a nice neutral balance. I imagine the DCCD would give you that bit of extra throttle control over the balance on the exit of corners.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 20:21, STARS: 0
Eibach and Racecomp Engineering both sell bundled front and rear swaybars so they were what I was inclined to go with.
As you suggest I’m definitely not going to go to the larger/stiffer end of the spectrum as I noted to only run one at a time, I don’t want to throw the balance completely out of whack.
Good point about the end links, I’ll have to research the rules to see if I can swap those.
Thanks for the input.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
12/06/2017 at 20:27, STARS: 1
Yeah I am not really pushing the car enough to get any loss of traction one way or the other but its most certainly engrained in me to drive it like a RWD car lol. Driving the same canyon roads each day in the Miata and then the Subaru, tends to make it hard to drive the cars differently. The biggest difference is uphill is fun and relaxing in the Subaru while kind of loud and lots of waiting in the Miata. But yeah I have found on the tightest of corners, the STi most certainly pushes a little while the Miata kicks the rear end out just a tad and is ESPECIALLY exaggerated if I give it throttle. However, to cure the understeer, I can certainly throttle the subaru I imagine and get it to cooperate. But that is frightening to try on a street! Hence why I do want to autocross it to learn the limits better.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/06/2017 at 20:34, STARS: 0
Dunno about Racecomp but the front Eibach isn’t adjustable. I’d be more inclined to go with a slightly thicker but adjustable bar. The Progress rear bar looks to be pretty cheap so if you’re trying to put together a cheaper combo you could do Whiteline front and Progress rear. Bundle may not necessarily be the cheapest/best option.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 0
In the pictures I see here it looks like the Eibach is adjustable: http://www.subispeed.com/2015-subaru-wrx/suspension/sway-bars/eibach-anti-roll-front-and-rear-sway-bar-kit-2015-wrx#.Wiidq_NyaEd
Though it’s not explicitly mentioned like it is for the rear. I’ll have to double check other sources.
The RCE kit is here, adjustable on both bars:
I know a bundle may not necessarily be the best but price wasn’t the first concern in these solutions. For both RCE and Eibach the reputability of the manufacturers came first, the convenience second.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/06/2017 at 21:09, STARS: 1
I got thrown off on the Eibach front bar because half the places online have a picture of an adjustable bar and the others don’t. Looks like the Eibach site says it’s adjustable though.
Also, looks like both RCE bars are 25.5 mm. I wouldn’t go that big in the rear especially if combined with the stock front bar at times.
"AkursedX" (akursedx)
12/06/2017 at 21:46, STARS: 1
At the start of last autocross season I had a hotchkis front bar on fill stiff and a progress tech rear bar on full stiff. By the end of the season, I had my Hotchkis bar on medium and was back to my stock rear. I will also pick up an even smaller nc Miata rear bar and see how that works. I will also add some rear toe-in to help with stability.
I’m not saying this will work for you, in fact it probably wouldn’t, but I’m saying it to say that I like that you are willing to experiment both front and rear, and also realize that just because something ‘feels’ right doesn’t always mean it’ll be the fastest, as weird as that sounds.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 22:16, STARS: 1
I’m learning as I go but having an engineering background definitely helps in having some vehicle dynamics knowledge and understanding what my changes may do for the balance and performance.
Last year was my first on sticky tires. I added some camber to take advantage of that (1.5 deg up front, not too much to maintain daily driver tire life) and worked on making my tire pressures work for me and to best use the tires.
This year I want to go further in maximizing what I can get out of the car in DS with the sway bar(s) and driving technique as I intend to get into left foot braking to play with the balance and keep the car from bogging in tight stuff.
I appreciate the kudos and your input/experience here. Cheers.
"AkursedX" (akursedx)
12/06/2017 at 23:17, STARS: 1
Well the wrx is a top DS performer so the potential is there. Seems like you have the right ideas. One thing I’ve learned about this sport is that it’s constant adjustment trying to get things dialed in. My big venture this year is getting a proper corner balance and an alignment that will be much more aggressive.
If I’m correct, you’re in the GTA area. I’m in Buffalo and maybe I’ll sneak up to a Brampton autoslalom next season as I have a couple of friends who have gone up that way. We also get some GTA people down for our wny events at new era field and even at some of the other local regions. Maybe we’ll run into each other.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
12/06/2017 at 23:31, STARS: 0
BMC in that photo?
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 23:34, STARS: 1
I’ve heard/read that the WRX is a good DS car so I’m only trying to live up to that reputation. :)
I would probably recommend against going to an event in Brampton. They have gotten very crowded and the parking lot is not very good, though I will say their events are very well run. I’d recommend driving the extra hour up to Barrie where I run regularly, the lot they use is bigger, smoother and more open and the crowd is smaller.
The Canadian national championship is in Ontario next year and is planned to be at an airport within reasonable driving distance of Bufallo and Detroit so I’ll expect plenty of Americans there. I’m not sure I can compete yet but I intend to attend so that would be a great place run into other people from here.
I’ve thought about doing an event in NY state as well, maybe I’ll have time for that next year.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
12/06/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 0
Yep.