by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 12/05/2017 at 12:27
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 12/05/2017 at 12:27
No Tags
STARS: 2
Like Care By Volvo
,I became interested in Book by Cadillac when it was first announced. So I immediately signed up to be notified and to join when it became available. I received the email the other day that it became available in my area, LA (the others being NY and Dallas). And like Volvo’s Care it’s a “subscription” (i.e. lease) based program that lets you get what car you want but it’s more exclusive and unlike Volvo only letting you choose the XC40, you get access to: both the CT6 and its plug in variant, the standard wheelbase Escalade and long wheelbase ESV, the XT5 and surprisingly the CTS-V and ATS-V coupe. Weirdly the standard CTS and ATS coupe and sedan aren’t offered on it. And of course they aren’t available for the subscription yet when I looked because according to Cadillac, for whatever reason they have late availability.
Heres how it works:
First, you can’t just join up. Like I said before, it’s more exclusive in that you have to request to join and the fact that it’s only available right now in 3 metropolitan areas.After that, its app based, so you download the Book By Cadillac app.
After confirming your email, you then input all your info, including billing, you are all set to go.
But initially, it’s not that simple because it never is. After requesting to join, you have to wait until they review your application to join and your driving record before you can be approved to join. You get notified of course of the status of your application. After that, you are invited to participate in an on-boarding call by the concierge to give you the details of the program and how to go about selecting your first vehicle.
There is a $500 initiation fee that gets included in your first bill. So including the $1800 it cost for the program, your first “subscription” is looking to be about a mortgage payment, or $2300. Keep in mind that this is a program that lets you only keep the vehicle for 30 days with only 2,000 miles. Included in the program for the $1800 is:
18 vehicle exchanges within a year of signing up
Month to month membership where thankfully you can cancel anytime
Unused exchanges are nonrefundable
Access to any vehicle I listed above
Routine maintenance and repairs
Vehicle registration costs
Onstar, satellite radio and (supposedly) unlimited 4G LTE in car Wifi
The good thing is that you can keep the same car and renew for another 30 days, unless of course someone else wants a car and there aren’t many cars available.
It’s a good idea to get people into the vehicles. But I don’t think I would ever do it. $1800 is a lot for only 2,000 miles ($.92/mile if you go over) and a month. On top of that, they are trying too hard to make it exclusive, and the initial stuff of having to actually apply to join etc seem like an unnecessary hassle to make it seem exclusive. Another downside? V Series vehicles are only available March-October “when driving conditions are favorable”. Ok, that applies to NY and Dallas, but what about people here in LA? We can’t drive them because the other cities are having bad weather? It makes no sense. But anyway, there you have it, another glorified lease program. What do you guys think of it? Ask anything you want to know because I am a member.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 2
It’s an interesting idea for the market that’s already leasing expensive vehicles. I don’t know how much a lease on an equivalent Escalade would be, but if it’s at least moderately competitive with leasing the car you’d lease anyways then it gets you some added benefits. If it’s significantly more than a lease on one of these vehicles, though, that’s not too appealing.
Exclusivity sells well to people with significant means. For a regular joe it seems pompous, for someone who’s used to exclusivity it’s a bonus. So having to apply, while a bit of a burden, is probably an appeal to many of the target customers. I wonder what percentage of members of this program will already be members of country clubs or other “exclusive” programs?
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
Well using a mid level Escalade Premium for example, with little to no options its $86,090. A lease on that with $9369 due at signing and 10,000 miles for 48 months is $960 a month. So using that example its about $840 more than a regular lease. The lease looks to be the better deal, because even if you do the maximum of 15 thousand miles, your still about 700 something bucks less than the Book lease.
Exclusivity does sell. But Cadillac has the problem of not even getting mainstream luxury buyers to even consider their vehicles for purchase. They need to be taken seriously before they can sell exclusivity and they still aren’t there yet for something like that.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
12/05/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 1
So you’re paying $500 for the privelege of paying $1,800/month to lease a Cadillac for thirty days at a time?
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 1
Pretty much. But that $500 is only initially.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
12/05/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 1
This is the dumbest goddamned thing I have ever seen.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 13:08, STARS: 2
Is the car in the program a mid-level with little to no options?
Also, do you have to have insurance on the book program? Or pay for maintenance?
So spread that downpayment out over 48 months, that’s $195/month. Add 2 oil changes per year at, say, $80 each, that’s another $15 or so/month. Then insurance is probably another $120 or so a month depending on a variety of factors. That makes the “real” monthly rate for just that Escalade lease closer to $1300, and you’re stuck with that particular car for 4 years. For the extra $500 or so left, that’s not too bad actually for the freedom it affords and, hopefully, getting a new model year as it comes.
I think one of Cadillac’s biggest challenges with luxury buyers is their lack of exclusivity. If they had more upscale dealerships that carried only Cadillac and treated customers as more upscale brands do it would help them get more attention. They may not be there yet, but this could be a way to open that door.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/05/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 0
How much does the lease cost per mile if you go over? If 2000mi/month was more realistic for you than 15,000/yr, that’s an extra 9000 miles. Not sure how much that decreases the gap, probably not a ton. Considering you get to have a unique car every month though I can see some people biting on that.
Also, how does insurance work with this program?
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
12/05/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 1
It isn’t a perfect step, but I agree with the sentiment. Exclusivity and the “luxury” treatment are where cadillac has always fallen on its face. I remember the old pontiac/GMC/Cadillac dealer combos of the 90s. Nothing says “world class luxury” quite like seeing your salesman finish nagging some poor sap to get the undercoating for his new sunfire before turning to you and flashing that shark-smile when you say you want to see a seville...
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:16, STARS: 0
Every car in the program is a standard model. So unlike Volvo which gives you the option to choose between the standard XC40 and the upper R Design trim, its just basic models. So you cant go on and request a top trim CT6 Platinum. Its just a CT6. I should have mentioned that before.
There is insurance coverage though they wouldn’t say who was providing it nor the extent of the coverage but I would assume its full coverage with something like this. And I was informed that you cover the cost of the deductible (up to a grand) in the event of an accident.
Its not too bad in that it allows you to go from driving a CT6 to an Escalade to a CTS-V and the inclusion of maintenance. Its still steep though for the limited miles and the fact that you cant choose what trim of car you want. They need unlimited mileage for $1800 or charge a little extra for it.
I totally agree with you on the dealers. As it stands a lot of them are shared stores with either Chevy, Buick or both. Thats not a good look when you have a showroom floor that has a 6 figure CTS-V and an Encore along with the shitty customer service. They need to take a few pages from the Lexus playbook regarding dealerships.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
Its like a standard lease in that its 92 cents a mile if you go over the 20 thousand. And you can keep the same car at the end of the 30 days, you just have to do another 30 days.
Insurance, like I mentioned to Jayhawk Jake, is included thought they wouldn’t tell me who was providing the coverage and if it was full coverage though I assume it is. You do have to cover the deductible though, up to a grand in the event of an accident.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 1
How much mileage do you need? 2000 in 30 days is over 20,000 a year, very few people drive more than 12,000 or so. Standard leases typically are lower than that, so that factors into the price.
$1800 a month to have any new Cadillac that’s insured and maintained on your behalf doesn’t seem super steep compared to a typical lease as you described. Plus my previous calculation didn’t factor in registration fees or annual taxes, which also brings the cost up. The reality is the “real” monthly cost of buying or leasing a car is quite a bit higher than the monthly payment, so when everything is factored in $1800 seems pretty fair.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 13:28, STARS: 1
Why? It seems pretty reasonable to me. Certainly targets a pretty small customer base, but to pay a little more than a lease on a CT6 or Escalade (after factoring in all the other costs the program includes) and have access to all these different cars at your leisure isn’t a bad deal.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 13:30, STARS: 1
I think one of Cadillac’s biggest challenges with luxury buyers is their lack of exclusivity. If they had more upscale dealerships that carried only Cadillac and treated customers as more upscale brands do it would help them get more attention.
So much this. On top of that, in my experience, Cadillac sales people sell cars the same way that they sell Chevys and Kias - - higher pressure, clearly commission-driven, and don’t want to ‘waste time’ with people in the initial stages of shopping.
That is ABSOLUTELY NOT how BMW, Lexus, Audi, M-B et al are selling cars in my area. IMHO, Cadillac’s dealer model is borked.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/05/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
I meant how much does a standard lease cost when you go over. If it’s the same, that extra mileage would cost you $8280 on the 15k lease. Or $690/month. I can see people paying that extra $150/month to have something unique every month. And if insurance is included? Depending on who you are, that’s quite likely breaking even at the end of the day.
Not too bad. Certainly not cheap, but not terrible.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
Personally, I drive a lot, so 2000 is nothing. And with the amount they are charging, they should let you have at least the option of getting more mileage.
$1800 does seem fair when you think of whats included. I just dont like the 2000 miles with no option of more, and the fact that you are getting basic trim levels. $1800 only makes sense on the Escalade, and V cars. It makes less sense on the CT6 to a point and the XT5, both of which you could get a standard lease for way less.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 1
Well using Cadillac’s own lease its “ Mileage charge of 0.25/mile over 40000 miles”. I dont think it should have been $1800 across the board.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 1
So, you’re a member? What car(s) have you taken thus far?
Do I get to bypass the dealers entirely in this program? That’s worth something - as I and others have noted, Cadillac dealers are lousy to deal with.
One of those cars (XT5) doesn’t fit with the others - why is it there?
Seems to me that they’re missing the boat a bit with that high mileage cap. They could cut that $1,800 a bit by knocking it down to 1,250 or 1,500 - any thought that they might offer varying mileage amounts?
How many cars do you think are in the program? Just wondering how hard it would be to get the car you actually wanted.
This actually seems too inflexible to me, at the cost that they want for it. It’s a very limited customer base who will pay that much for the flexibility AND wants to drive Cadillacs.
"facw" (facw)
12/05/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 0
Not many people drive 24,000 miles a year, but if you do any sort of road trip, you could eat a big chunk of those 2000 miles in one go. You might only do that once a year, but since this seems to work in 30 day chunks, it seems like it could bite you.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
12/05/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 5
I think the biggest thing some people here are missing is that this program isn’t aimed at us. This is aimed at people with lots of money who are buying the convenience and choice, not trying to game the system to get “a great deal on using a CTS/ATS-V” like most Oppos.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 0
Plan accordingly or rent a car for that trip. I don’t suspect many of the target customers do crazy road trips though...
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 13:52, STARS: 1
It sounds like Cadillac has been testing ways to fix that, but it’s going to take a lot of time and effort for it to spread out nationwide.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 13:53, STARS: 0
So with all of this being said, why did you choose to sign up for it?
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:54, STARS: 0
None so far. It just got released in the LA region the day before yesterday. Im stil going through how the program works and trying to find out about all the little details.
There is no need for the dealer with this. You deal specifically with the concierge who both helps you choose the vehicle and delivers it directly to you.
Im with the you on the XT5, it doesnt fit and like I mentioned to someone else, along with the the CT6, the $1800 is steep and only makes sense on the Escalade and the V Vehicles. Im sure if you did the calculations on a regular lease with the XT5 and included everything like maintenance etc, you would come out cheaper.
As of right now they told me there werent any plans right now for varying mileage amounts though I think there should be an option of unlimited mileage, along with differing costs. $1800 across the board doesnt work for me, especially on certain models that I dont think are worth it. i dont care how much in car wifi or maintenance coverage you give me.
As far as how many actual cars they have for booking, I’m not entirely sure and they dont seem to be sure either. If there isnt a model available yet that you want the concierge will notify you when it does become available.
I totally agree with you about it being inflexable. They are assuming there is this exclusive base that’s practically nonexistent that wants to pay ultra luxury money to drive around in a Cadillac for a month. Its a good idea but I dont see this being around long honestly.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:56, STARS: 1
Because it was interesting and initially I thought I was going to be able to get like a an ATS 3.6 Performance trim for $6-700 bucks. And wanting Cadillac to succeeded I jumped on it.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 0
Oh yea of course. But the problem with that is that those people with lots of money that want convenience and choice aren’t even considering buying a Cadillac. What makes any of us think that they would spring 7 Series/A8/S Class lease money on an XT5 or CT6? To the people that this is targeting, Cadillac isn’t and hasn’t been on their radar. They care about a badge before anything and the Cadillac crest isn’t it for them.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
12/05/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 0
That’s why they’re doing this...
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 14:10, STARS: 1
Yeah, you’re right, the CT6 doesn’t belong there either, unless it’s a Platinum trim car. And even then, those cars are being *heavily* discounted to get them moving.
I think that there’s a good concept in here (better than Volvo’s, for many reasons), but the price is wrong, and the model isn’t flexible enough. The lack of flexibility may be linked to the program being in its infancy - - there might be only a few dozen cars in this program in LA to start. That may be forcing them to limit it a bit.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 14:11, STARS: 0
Yep - I think Cadillac is well aware of the issue, but there’s a LOT of inertia there— it’s a huge challenge for them to fix it.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 0
That makes no sense if true. They need to work out the problems of getting the luxury buyers to consider them first before jumping into something like this, pushing exclusivity that that isnt there. Get the sales there first and consumers to consider them a credible competitor to the Germans and Japanese, then expect people to pony up $1800 a month to drive 2,000 miles.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 14:16, STARS: 1
Yea from what I’ve seen, you cant choose trim levels and every model that you can is only a basic trim.
It is a good concept and its way better than Volvo in that you have more than one model to choose from, but the prices need to be tailored to the vehicles, not one set price across all. All that could be linked to this being new like you said, but they haven’t been clear with how many cars are available, just that they will let you know if the car you want is if it isn’t available.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 14:20, STARS: 0
Wait, so you are a member, like a full paying member, or you’ve just gone through the application process?
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
12/05/2017 at 14:44, STARS: 0
They’re trying to get wealthy people to drive their cars, this is a strategy to do just that. Also, most people who live in LA, NYC, or Dallas and are capable of flying first class aren’t going to drive 2000 miles a month.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 1
Seems to me that, if they were to gain some scale (which they clearly don’t have right now), you could get a CTS one month for $700 (upcharge for higher trims), a CTS-V the next month for $1,300, then a ‘Slade for $1,250, etc etc etc. I would think that’s the longer term goal.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
No I’m a full member. Like I can already book a car.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 0
I get that. But again, if those same wealthy people dont even consider you for a regular purchase or even show up on their buyer radar, you cant expect them to go for something like this. I get it as a way of having those people experience the cars and show that Cadillac can do luxury to, but expecting them to drop $1800 a month on something that isnt proven to them is a stretch. I see this working for business types though, especially with the Escalade.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 1
I would hope so. Because like I mentioned to someone else, I thought I was going to be able to jump in and get an ATS 3.6 Performance trim for like 6 or 700 a month everything included. But the regular CTS and ATS aren’t even offered for some reason, and the XT5 isnt worth it.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 0
To be fair, at a fixed rate of $1800/month, I can see why the base CTS and ATS aren’t on the program...
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 1
This is true. But the same could be said for the XT5. This whole program should have been only for V Vehicles or V Sport in the event of the CTS, upper trims of the CT6 and the Escalade.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/05/2017 at 15:22, STARS: 0
I think I’m trying to apply logic where none existed, lol
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 0
You confuse me. You said you didn’t think you would ever do it, but you’re a customer. You said you thought you’d get a car for cheaper but went through the whole process, learned all the details, then signed up anyways? So is it or isn’t it worthwhile? Your money says one thing, you appear to say another.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 0
If this program is any indication of a new industry trend, you arent going to find much logic, especially when it comes to pricing and the vehicles offered.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 15:27, STARS: 0
I think your logic is a little broken. If people don’t consider you for a regular purchase it doesn’t have much to do with this program. It’s a different thing entirely. You’re dealing with a concierge, not a dealer. You’re getting this exclusive lease that gives you access to a bunch of cars, not purchasing or leasing a single ride. There are plenty of reasons someone that isn’t going to walk into a Cadillac dealer would look at this program. Cadillac has been pushing some generic advertising just to work their name into the conversation, if you hadn’t considered buying one but had your interest piqued by advertising this could be appealing.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 15:29, STARS: 0
Well for one, they didn’t release any of the intimate details, like the models available, until it launched. And like I said, it just went live in the LA area 2 days ago. So pricing, mileage etc was all learned after the fact. You pretty much don’t get the details you need to know until you become a member. I haven’t spent any on this at all yet.
After seeing how it is I would say its only worthwhile for business types that need to get around to meetings or to ferry other corporate types in style, especially on vehicles like the Escalade and the CTS-V (they only offer the ATS-V coupe).
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 15:32, STARS: 0
How doesnt it though? They want to appeal to the well off buyer with exclusivity etc. If i’m a usual luxury car buyer of an S Class or & and I see this, I’m going to want to know why they think they can charge me $1800 for something I likely hadn’t encountered before or wouldn’t have even considered. I’m just saying they need to build brand awareness though sales and marketing before expecting people to dive in and spend nearly 2 grand a month on products that’s unproven to them. But thats just me.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
12/05/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
If you are a “usual buyer of an S Class” you’re just buying an S Class every time. If you decide you want something different, your personal “friend” at the dealer (aka your salesperson) will help you find something different. If you’re just a generic luxury car buyer, as in the normal car buyer that doesn’t know diddly squat about cars, this might catch your eye. If Cadillac has anything it’s brand awareness. Image is their problem. I think most americans are more than aware of Cadillac, but many probably associate them with wealthy old white people. Cadillac’s ‘Dare Greater’ campaign challenged that and put their name out there again. I bet the advertising for Book will by highly targeted, and the whole program is essentially an ad campaign. They want to get someone to sign up, drive a few cars, impress them so they’ll tell their friends how great their Cadillacs are, then their friends will either try out the program or buy/lease a Cadillac of their own.
Here’s where I really dislike your logic: you want everything to happen in a single step. If this one program doesn’t make Cadillac the #1 luxury brand, it’s crap. That’s just not how business works. Businesses have to try things, they have to be creative. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, it’s far too early to judge this but since they decided to expand beyond the first two cities that’s a sign that there’s interest.
You clearly aren’t the customer, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a customer. And since you aren’t, as far as I know, a typical luxury car buyer, you don’t really have the mindset of one either. So while I can appreciate that the program probably isn’t great for you, and I can understand why you think it’s doomed to fail, I’m simply saying I think it’s actually a pretty good and creative idea that might get a few more people behind the wheel of a Cadillac than the existing model does.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 15:48, STARS: 0
I agree with you, they do have brand awareness, but its a dated brand awareness, an old mans car. But the buyers that they want to bring to the brand still don’t take them seriously. I’ve talked to people myself about it. They either don’t think the cars are worth what they are asking new, or they just don’t consider them a credible player at all. Book could get people talking, but I wonder if that’s going to translate into sales and people taking the brand seriously as a competitor in the luxury field.
And I’m not saying that if this doesn’t work then the brand has failed. That would be foolish. I’m saying they shouldn’t get too ahead of themselves with things like Book when they still need to work on the problems the brand it self has, namely sales, which is unfortunate because products like the ATS, the V cars and the CT6 are competitive and in some ways better than those competitors.
I want Cadillac to succeed just as much as any of us does. But Im just looking at the realities of the situation and I get what your saying, but I don’t think Book is going to get the people they want behind the wheel of the cars. It can get people talking though but that’s about it.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
12/05/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 1
First off, I do think it’s overpriced, but I’m curious as to whether or not they include insurance like the Volvo product. I’d assume they’d have to, right? I just haven’t seen that called out anywhere specifically.
Even with insurance, it’s pricey at $1800/mo. The 2000 mileage allotment is nice, but probably overkill - as others have said, a tiered option might make a bit more sense and open the service up to more customers.
If I could do something like this for $1000/mo with insurance, no initiation fee and lower mileage, I’d be more than interested, and at least give it a try for a month.
One interesting thought - I wonder if you could form a LLC, have the LLC sign up for Book and then use the car as an Uber Black. Of course, an Uber probably will drive a lot more than 2000 miles/month.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/05/2017 at 16:47, STARS: 0
There is insurance included, though they haven’t told me who is providing the coverage or if its full coverage. Only that in the event of an accident, you’re responsible for paying the deductible, up to $1000.
It is pricey, and like you and others have mentioned, i wish there were tiered pricing, or they have plans for it in the future.
Like I said to someone else, I went into this thinking I could get an ATS for like 600 bucks a month. But thats not the case sadly. But I doubt you could do an LLC. I’m sure in their terms and conditions prohibits something like that from being done with their cars. Besides, I wouldnt want to Uber in one of these. In the terms and conditions, they make it explicitly known that you pretty much cant abuse the cars of course, that includes interior damage and cleaning, even smoking. Doing any neglectful thing could get you an unspecified fine and have your membership revoked from Book.