by "Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
Published 12/04/2017 at 10:50
by "Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
Published 12/04/2017 at 10:50
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There is a good answer to the question that Erik asked over at neutral:
So, I think this commenter is generally right, interest rates and leasing can be bad, buying new is generally better if you keep the car for a number of years! But I can hardly think of many Americans that could have the luxury of buying a new car 100% on cash. Considering that 87.9% of Americans use the car for their commute , and public transport is quite limited in the US , hasn’t the car really turned from a luxury into a pseudo-necesity in that country?
The thing is, people complaining about high interest rates on used cars might sound petty, but to many there isn’t a real livable choice. Tell them they should go to a better dealer or fuck off and take the bus, but then, many dealers do predatory lending, and bus infrastructure isn’t as extensive as in other developed countries. Its easy to look down at them from a high horse and say that they should save up thousands of dollars and buy new, even though it might be quite difficult for many of them.
I don’t know, I just ponder the question of what will happen, will the governments of your many counties invest in public transport, or will the states pass more strict anti-predatory laws, or will nothing happen?
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/04/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 4
Or we could stop saying “this is better than that” and start saying “for [insert situation here] this is better than that”
"E90M3" (e90m3)
12/04/2017 at 10:57, STARS: 2
You mean do math and figure out over the life of the vehicle which purchasing option results in the lowest cost per mile and go with that option? No, that makes way too much sense.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
12/04/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 0
If you can afford the payments a new car is not a bad financial decision. In some cases a used car paid in cash can be more expensive then new financed . especially if you don’t have the cash reserves. It may be a base model iM but it’s still transport(just don’t get a dang Sentra). Now if you go and spend 25% of your income a month on transport at an obscene rate , that is a bad financial decision. It is money that you have to be willing to part with. Like rent or interest on a house.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 11:02, STARS: 1
Yeah, exactly what I mean! Sometimes we lack perspective!
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
12/04/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 0
I’d buy a used car if for no other reason that in most modern cars, technology is has become far too invasive. Not only are they more difficult, if not impossible, for the average person to work on, but since everything is controlled by computer and connected to the internet, your car can essentially be controlled remotely, and there’s nothing you can do about it. Not to mention a used car will be more bang for the buck, especially a CPO car with a nice warranty.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 11:05, STARS: 0
* Puts on tinfoil hat*
"Dru" (therealkennyd)
12/04/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 0
I think shitbirds like Dave Ramsey perpetuated the idea that new car = bad, and people bought into it. I can’t recall who on jalopnik, maybe McParland, but someone poked holes in his ideology and broke down cost per mile in a way that most consumers never will, to their chagrin.
Ultimately I think you should buy a new vehicle if you want it and it fits in your budget. Lease VS Buy is just a matter of how much you drive and how long you plan to keep it.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/04/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 0
Clearly.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
12/04/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 0
Buying new also means you’re going to own the car for what are likely to be its most reliable years. Most “normal” new cars these days aren’t going to have any significant problems with reliability in the first 5 years. I’m talking mainstream cars that are sold in the millions, not things like the X6M. Years 5 - 10? That can be a very different story. If you can’t afford NOT to have a working car every day, this can be a real factor. Even if you can afford the repair monetarily, the near-guaranteed reliability is worth a lot to many people.
That, and people like shiny things.
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
12/04/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 0
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
12/04/2017 at 11:10, STARS: 2
We reluctantly bought our minivan new because, seriously, have you seen how nasty minivans get inside? No amount of cleaning really fixes it. Plus when the family is involved, the investment in incremental additional safety can be worthwhile.
For an Old Person Car, used all the way. I’m thinking about a Mercedes GLK. They’re all in mint condition. I haven’t seen one torn up yet.
Everything in between is case by case.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 11:14, STARS: 0
I knew you’d mention that, but in that same report, the hackers had to have a physical connection to the OBD2!
While it is true, it also is quite limited and companies are working hard because they obviously don’t want hackable cars! plus, as times march onwards, you’d probably be able to disable all this crap (mechanics is turning into electronics!) while also appreciating safety, reliability and fuel economy!
"punkgoose17" (punkgoose17)
12/04/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
I think the answer is more people will by junk cars on craigslist and facebook. Many car dealers are predatory, I doubt the states will pass more strict anti-predatory laws, and public transport in my state is not being invested in. Usually every 8 years they drop some bus routes or times and so some more people stop taking the bus.
People will need to keep their cars for longer periods of time, which has been the trend for the last decade and longer.
My wife and I share one car. She is disabled and cannot work, so I drive 99% of the time. I tried to get a 2nd car, so she can run errands, and take herself to the doctor instead of finding someone to take her. Hopefully I can fix the 2nd car to pass inspection.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 11:25, STARS: 0
Hmm, So its same old same old?
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
12/04/2017 at 11:32, STARS: 1
I don’t like making a blanket statement about it because local and personal issues can cause huge variation in what’s “smart”.
IMO however I think the option that will fit the bill most often would be a new-ish used vehicle. Low mileage 3-5 years old.
"nermal" (nermal)
12/04/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 1
There are two separate arguments here, new vs used and cash vs financed vs leased.
The one thing that people always miss is that cars are an expense, not an investment.
Different use scenarios will have different outcomes for what is best. For some people, getting a lease special BMW for $400 / mo every 3 years is a great idea.
For others, buying a 3 yr old Toyota Camry is the best option.
"punkgoose17" (punkgoose17)
12/04/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 0
Yes.
I think, it will take either a collapse of the automotive lending industry or a very green agenda President and House for the government to do anything.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 12:14, STARS: 1
I suppose so, but subprime car loans are going the same way that the housing market back in 2008.....
but its a much smaller portion of the credit market.
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
12/04/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 0
Yeah the whole mechanics turning into electronic things is one of the main things I don’t like, so yeah. Still would rather have a car from before around 2013ish. Cleaner styling then too.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 14:41, STARS: 0
Yeah, one of my objectives as an (soon to be) engineer is to simplify cars.
My car would be an NHSA approved E30 basically...
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
12/04/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 0
That would be nice.
"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 0
wouldn’t it?
Although, we also need to realize that cars are dying out.
I think its actually a good thing that the shared economy, and self driving is becoming more common, the people that dislike driving will stop buying cars, meaning that instead of listening to everyone, they’ll only listen to us when designing fancy, fast cars.
I don’t know really what will happen, hopefully we will change to public transportation and self driving cabs, meaning that the remaining people driving will likely have (if more strict rules) probably less time in traffic and such.
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
12/04/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 0
Nope. The dying out of cars/the movement towards autonomy is undeniably a bad thing. As much as I hate crowded roads, not having a car or not controlling you car is a huge damper on your personal freedom of movement. I don’t see autonomy working at all unless all cars are autonomous and for me that outcome would be totally unacceptable. You won’t be able to take your Level 5 car off the beaten path or pull it over to the side of the road to take a picture. You won’t be able to carry a can of electricity (the battery equiv. would have to be pretty big, right?) to recharge your car when it runs out of juice in the middle of nowhere. I dunno, I just think the electrification/autonomy thing sucks. Plenty of performance but no emotion, and emotion is a huge part of driving.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
12/04/2017 at 17:15, STARS: 0
Leasing can totally make financial sense. You just have to stick to something that has a special lease deal on it and isn’t over-inflating the residual value to get to that special lease deal. My wife is a perfect customer for leasing. We save money by keeping the mileage limit to 10k miles per year, which she never even comes close to breaking, and the only costs we have are fuel, insurance, a small amount of scheduled maintenance, and maybe tires if the car she chooses has shit-in-the-snow tires on it.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
12/04/2017 at 19:22, STARS: 1
I think the ultimate solution would be areas of no allowable manual control. This would include busy downtown streets, grade-separated highways where stopping is not allowed, traffic/accident black-spots, etc.
Out in rural/scenic areas I don’t think manual control should ever be taken away. There’s just so much spontaneity in life that no one would be OK with surrendering all control of private vehicles.
“Stop on the side of the road where legal” will probably become a commandable function, too, but the human will still need to take the car completely off the road if desired.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
12/04/2017 at 19:28, STARS: 0
If you don’t have the cash, it’s all the more important to be a savvy buyer.
For most people, buying a new car is an effective use of money if done in the right mindset .
Say you have a steady income and live comfortably. You’re not an enthusiast and you just want something clean, spacious enough and comfortable to spend your commute time in. Find a reliable model of new car with decent incentives, etc. and take out the most attractive loan you can find given your downpay and monthly cash flow. Pay it off and keep it until it costs more than its market value to fix. This should be on the order of at least 10 years. Buying a new Camry every 3 years “because I want to have the newest model” is a terrible lifestyle choice, and the fact that new Camrys are about as interesting as new refrigerators isn’t even the biggest reason why.
Say you can’t afford a new car. You don’t have money down, and perhaps you don’t have money, period . If all your budget allows is a $2-3k beater to get you to work, then you need to read up on what models carry the least maintenance risk. A Yaris or Corolla with a 4AT should be among the cars on that list, but check out Geo/Chevy Prizms which are basically badge job Corollas. Learn to do basic things like oil changes by yourself—the $20 oil changes are cheap but not reliable. Drive it, and when your financial situation improves enough for you to get something nicer, sell it for $2-3k. You’ll have pretty much owned the car for free, minus gas and liability-only insurance.
The problem is uneducated consumers who are not interested in being savvy. Predatory lending can be discouraged, but there isn’t much the government can do to force you to become an informed consumer.