by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 11/30/2017 at 12:05
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 11/30/2017 at 12:05
No Tags
STARS: 2
I have been extremely interested in Care by Volvo since it was announced. And after seeing the article yesterday by Kristen Lee I decided to contact them directly to get more info because if it is this simple, I would be driving an XC40 in early 2018. But to put it simply: It’s less an actual subscription and more a glorified lease that’s trying to appeal to young people as a subscription if you hadn’t already noticed.
Go on the site, and they make it seem like it’s as simple as choosing your car and options, your service plan and insurance, and then scheduling a pick up for your vehicle at a local Volvo dealer. It’s not. I spoke with some reps at Volvo regarding if it’s that easy. I was informed that they do run your credit though no one could tell me why credit was needed for something that doesn’t require a down payment. I got the runaround and no direct answer except “You can check your credit information through the Volvo site. You will need to run it again 30 days before you pick up your vehicle”.
Here’s what’s bugging me about this. They make it seem simple: choose your trim of XC40, confirm your monthly payment and reserve your car with the $500 deposit, wait for the Concierge to get in contact with you for delivery at your local dealer. But things don’t make sense and point to this being more an actual lease with a marketing gimmick name than an actual subscription. The fact that you have to run your credit, yet there’s no down payment required, you can’t use a trade in because there’s no down payment, and if you do have one, according to the Care site “Your preferred Volvo dealer can assist you with your trade in as a separate transaction”. What would be the point then? Even in the fine print, it states: Excludes taxes, title and registration fees and is available for qualified customers based on FICO score through Volvo Car Financial Services. That makes it seem like Care by Volvo is only available for well qualified lessees which would make this a lease without a down payment.
Like I said I’m really interested in this because it’s so simple. But don’t bullshit us Volvo. If this is a different kind of lease in that it has no down payment just call it what it is. Don’t try and be so trendy and make it seem more simple than it really is. I don’t want to run or use my credit for something I’m “subscribing” to.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
11/30/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 3
I’m not surprised. The bean counters and banks would be very reluctant to take any more actual ownership of cars than they already do with leases. To me “subscription” basically means borrowing, and that’s kinda what leasing already is.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/30/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 3
Do you have a phone? Or insurance? Your credit gets run for that, too. (I know you realize this.) I’d think anything that has any kind of installment agreement pretty much runs your credit, if they’re a legitimate organization.
"StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8" (stndibnz1)
11/30/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 1
Was just looking at this this morning. It’s basically a 2 year lease with 15k miles a year that you can turn in the car and get a new one at the 1 year mark. It’s not a subscription, it’s a lease with a fancy name.
"Patrick Nichols" (pnichols)
11/30/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 1
You realize that what you desire is a very bad business plan. Not running someone’s credit would be the equivalent of not requiring rent to be paid at the beginning of the month and taking no deposit...
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:23, STARS: 0
That goes without saying (except the insurance part. Ive never had my credit ran for insurance. That doesn’t make sense). But my problem here is that Volvo is making it seem like something it isnt.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 0
That’s my problem with it. On the surface its appealing as hell. But like anything that’s to good to be true, its too good to be true with extras.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:26, STARS: 0
That’s pretty much what they are pushing though. They make it seem like its as simple as picking the car and subscribing to it. Its a sugar coated lease that they are trying to push to millennials by calling it a subscription, because leasing cars is “what your dad does”.
I dont necessarily think that would be bad business though. Set a price for something, get a deposit and have them pay on it. Simple.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/30/2017 at 12:26, STARS: 3
I am so confused. Why don’t you want them to run a credit check? You think they should give you a $35,000 vehicle without checking to see that you can actually make the monthly $600 payments? It’s not a subscription to the cheese of the month club, it’s a car. The subscription, as they have termed it, includes a bunch of things a traditional lease does not, which necessitates the different nomenclature.
Why does this annoy you?
"DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By" (ducst3-red-1liter-standing-by)
11/30/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 1
Yeah, it’s all just varying shades of gray at this point. Ducati recently came out with something lease-esque too. I think they are just trying to shed the lease stigma and make it more appealing to us young-ins. Moot point though, I don’t think many of my millennial counterparts can afford a $600 dollar a month car payment that has zero equity at the end of the payments.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:30, STARS: 0
Because they are pushing like its a simple subscription for a car and its not. The only way its not like a traditional lease is that it includes the insurance and no down payment. That alone isnt enough for them to call this a subscription. I dont like companies misleading consumers like this, with naming and marketing gimmicks. The fact that they wouldn’t directly give me any answers about it shows they know exactly what they are doing. I think its a good idea dont get me wrong, just dont beat around the bush about what it reall is.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:35, STARS: 0
Moot point though, I don’t think many of my millennial counterparts can afford a $600 dollar a month car payment that has zero equity at the end of the payments.
This. Like I said its appealing as hell. But $600 a month, for a Volvo at that, with no equity like you said, its a hard pill to swallow. But nonetheless I was still interested. I see this though becoming more widespread trying to appeal to us Millennials, calling things subscriptions that are leases. I dont like that.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/30/2017 at 12:36, STARS: 1
Thing is, this doesn’t seem like a great deal to me - it’s basically a lease with insurance and a few other minor perks. Fine print always matters, no matter what the marketing spin is.
If you don’t run credit on subscribers, you’re going to self-select the *wrong* customer for this program, not to mention the other issues that Sovande, Patrick Nichols, etc. have pointed out-
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 1
Yea if you look closer at it its not that great of a deal, especially the $600 and $700 a month prices for a compact crossover. Not to mention paying that much on something that wont have equity like someone else mentioned.
The credit part though I could honestly do without. Who exactly would those “wrong” customers be? Its just insuring how much more in fees they can charge you since there isn’t any down. As long as you are able to pay that monthly, thats all that should matter.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/30/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 1
sub·scrip·tion
sbskripSH()n/
noun
1 .the action of making or agreeing to make an advance payment in order to receive or participate in something.
lease
ls/
noun
1
.a contract by which one party conveys land, property, services, etc., to another for a specified time, usually in return for a periodic payment.
synonyms:
rental agreement, leasehold, charter; More
Take a deep breath. Volvo called it a subscription because that is what it is. You are participating in the program they have set up to drive that particular vehicle with the maintenance and the insurance included. While it is a gimmick, it is certainly not harmful to the consumer.
If you can literally sign up for it on the internet and then have a dude bring the car to your local dealership for pick up, it’s pretty damn simple.
And what questions wouldn’t they answer?
"DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By" (ducst3-red-1liter-standing-by)
11/30/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 0
Agreed 100%. But I don’t understand why people (our generation in particular) appear to not want to own things.
Personally, I would much rather make payments to own it (or just buy it outright if I have enough cash). The math just makes way more sense in 99% of the cases. I guess people are just to lazy to do the 5 minutes of envelope calculations that would save them thousands.
I just don’t get the problem with ownership. But I suppose that’s moving into owning vs leasing debate
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/30/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 1
Insurance is one of those soft pulls. Doesn’t affect your score, but insurance companies do use it to determine your rates.
I do wonder how states/counties will compute sales tax, I imagine similar to a lease in that you pay for what you “use” and not full vehicle value.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/30/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 1
What is the cost to lease a similar $35,000 vehicle for 2 years and 30,000 miles? What is the cost to insure said vehicle? Is it more or less than $600? My suspicion is that it will be more since the down payment will need to be factored in. Further, the agreement includes all maintenance including wear items, something not covered under traditional leases.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
Bull-Shit. In that its only a subscription because of the no down, you can sign up on the net and the few perks like the insurance coverage. The credit running and the mileage say lease though. Its more marketing than anything. That’s my problem with it. If this is a subscription then by literal definition, leases should have been called subscriptions from the beginning.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
Bull-Shit. In that its only a subscription because of the no down, you can sign up on the net and the few perks like the insurance coverage. The credit running and the mileage say lease though. Its more marketing than anything. That’s my problem with it. If this is a subscription then by literal definition, leases should have been called subscriptions from the beginning.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/30/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 3
As long as you are able to pay that monthly, thats all that should matter.
True, and they use the credit check (and presumably income verification of some sort) to determine that.
Repo-ing a bunch of 6-12 month old cars would be an enormous hit to their business model in this program. The cars would be worth a heck of a lot less than new, and without taking a down payment, they wouldn’t have collected much to offset the loss in value.
Since the monthly costs seem high (to me at least), if they were to not check credit, they would draw the interest of a disproportionate number of people with bad credit once word got out - which would likely increase the losses associated with repos.
One thing I’m curious about, though, is how they figure the insurance. When I moved from Chicago (city proper) to the suburbs, my insurance dropped by 50+%. If the insurance is really a flat rate no matter where you live, that $600/month might not be so bad for someone who is in their 20's, lives in a major city, and maybe doesn’t have a perfect driving record - which sounds like their target audience pretty much.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 1
Well for one, our gen is really financial illiterate. I know people that are in their late 20's like me, that dont understand things like financing, bk, etc. Not to mention the unfamiliarity with Volvo itself. So when you dont understand something, you dont care to understand enough to go through with doing it, in this case owning a car like this.
The only problem with ownership is taking the financial hit of depreciation. But again, too many of us dont understand or know what that means.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 0
Yea I think its going to be the pay for what you use. It would be the only thing that makes sense. Unless they try and tack it onto the monthly.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 0
Well using a competitor, the Audi Q3, with the same 24 months at 15 thousand miles as the XC40 R Design, which is $700 a month with Care, the Q3 comes in at $506.74 with $3847 down. So I guess its a trade off on either end. Go with a traditional lease and come out cheaper monthly, but with a down and no inclusion of the perks Volvo has, not to mention equity, or go with Care and pay more a month with the perks of insurance and maintenance but paying into no equity.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 1
From personal experience working, credit always a good determining factor in deciding if someone can pay or not.And in this instance its weird because I still dont get what a credit check could be determining other than you’re ability to repay. Its just bugging me that that are putting this out as almost a long term type of Turo rental. The credit and mileage are both limiting factors though.
I was wondering the same thing about the insurance. It cant just be a flat rate no matter what. That would be too good to be true. What you described though is me. That $600 a month isnt that cheap, but its not bad either with the insurance and maintenance included and I’ve had a few (like 3) speeding tickets.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/30/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 0
So you are at $507 a month plus the $3847 which is equal to $666 a month. Then add in insurance at roughly $150 a month and you are at $816 a month. This doesn’t include the maintenance package that Volvo includes. So it’s either roughly $100 or $200 more a month for the Audi.
The only way to realistically have equity in a car lease is to drive fewer than the allotted miles, so I am not sure what your argument is there?
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/30/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
I gotta think that is what the credit check is for, really. It may also be a factor in the insurance rates that they quote.
Flat rate insurance doesn’t make sense, I agree - but I’m curious as to how they’re doing it, because it can get complicated quickly.
I’m an old suburban guy now, but insurance can easily run $150/month+ I would think - -suddenly $600 doesn’t look bad if that includes taxes, with no down payment.
For reference, we’re about to lease a new car (all in) for $540/month, with $2k down. That’s a 36 month lease, not 24, but with 15k/year. With insurance we’re around that $600/month number. MSRP on the car is $54,500...
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 13:24, STARS: 0
Yea the insurance is a little high because I don’t even be that much. But in any event, some people have had a problem with paying that much a month for something that isn’t building equity. And most leases stay under their mileage allotment. But her none of that is here no there. Like I said, I think its a good deal and I’m interested. I dont know who will go for it though. I just have a problem with them pushing it like something it isnt.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 1
If you go on the Liberty Mutual site and look over the plan they offer for this, its pretty damn good. But like you said, I’m curious too. because if they aren’t being up front about the credit, than that means they are hiding something else, presumably that would make this seem more than a hassles than it needs to be.
It looks like you might need to rethink your lease and consider this Volvo. But thats if you even like or could get the XC40 to work for you. It is small.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/30/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
Yeah, it would probably take more digging than I’m willing to do to figure out the details on the program.
No - for reference, the car I’m talking about is a fairly loaded AWD Lexus RX350. A lot more car than that XC40 for basically the same money (though we’re on the hook for non-warranty R&M of course). Don’t hate the vehicle choice, it’s the wife’s. :)
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 13:41, STARS: 2
Im currently in the process of doing the digging for more info because Im actually looking into doing this. But Volvo’s customer care call center sucks and I hung up after being on hold for 5 minutes.
And the RX? That’s a good choice solid choice based solely on quality and reliability. I love the looks of the current gen. But I thought the NX would be closer in pricing to the XC40.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/30/2017 at 13:49, STARS: 1
But Volvo’s customer care call center sucks and I hung up after being on hold for 5 minutes.
That is NOT the way for Volvo to make this program succeed. Pathetic.
My wife had a 2011 RX, then an X3, and is excited to go back to the RX - she test drove it and loved it. We also have 1 little one and could possibly have another, at which point the NX/XC40 would be too small - and my wife likes to fill the back on shopping trips anyways.
But I thought the NX would be closer in pricing to the XC40.
That was kinda my point - our all-in cost on the RX will be no more than what the R-Design XC40 would run. Somewhat apples and oranges (36 mo v. 24, our insurance is low, etc), but in our situation that program is a non-starter at that cost.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/30/2017 at 14:25, STARS: 1
Yea the first go round with me initially wanting more info was an online chat with a rep. Even then it was over 3 minutes before she asked how could she help. That was when I got the run around not clear answer on the credit. With 2 different reps by the way. Which then resulted in me calling and subsequently hanging up because of the wait time. I know damn well that many people arent calling Volvo of all places.
That’s my dilemma currently with the XC40. The program itself is compelling. But the vehicle itself is just ok. And its small which is one of the reasons Im trying to get out of my current vehicle. it wouldnt make much sense to get another smaller vehicle thats newer and costs more.
Yea ther program wouldn’t work for you then. If they would offer other vehicles on it it could work. But them offering the XC40 and their marketing tell me their are targeting Millennials. The RX is solid like I said. You should check out the RXl. But then you said your wife likes to shop, and from the pics released yesterday, the 3rd looks like it cuts in on cargo capacity with the seats up.
"StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8" (stndibnz1)
12/01/2017 at 08:07, STARS: 1
Also, the XC40 looks like garbage.....
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/01/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 0
Yea the first go round with me initially wanting more info was an online chat with a rep. Even then it was over 3 minutes before she asked how could she help. That was when I got the run around not clear answer on the credit. With 2 different reps by the way. Which then resulted in me calling and subsequently hanging up because of the wait time. I know damn well that many people arent calling Volvo of all places.
Come on, Volvo - you’re trying to kick off a completely new program and this is how you launch it? NOPE!
You say that the vehicle itself is just OK - -the program may be exciting, but it’s the vehicle that you live with on a daily basis. If the car is meh, I’d pass.
We’re actually picking up the RX tonight. The dealer was pretty cool in telling us about the RX-L, but the regular RX is plenty for her, and in fact she was a bit tempted by the NX, since she likes smaller cars. The RX is pushing the limit of what she wants already, size-wise.
"LJ909" (lj909)
12/01/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 2
Yea the program would work better if they had an actual small car, like a new V40 or something. But they dont. With the XC40 being just ok and mos tof the appeal coming from the program and the car itself, I think its going to be a pass for me.
Congrats on the new RX though. You have thousands of miles of quality and problem free driving coming.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/01/2017 at 12:17, STARS: 1
Yeah, I’m DD’ing a GS350 myself, and it’s been perfect for 35k miles thus far. Looking forward to my wife having a car she’s happier with.
Sadly, there is a new V40, and it’s not a bad looking car. Not in the US, though, because all we want (apparently) are lifted hatches and wagons...
"Christine" (chrissyp60)
03/09/2018 at 09:13, STARS: 0
Because it’s like renting a car at Enterprise. It’s a subscription. You don’t get your credit run when you rent. You give your credit card as collateral. They could do the same. You should have to sign up for automatic payments or better yet, it can come out of your payroll every week. You wouldn’t need credit. But if your credit is bad, this would make it improve drastically!
"Luke" (lukedanger)
04/02/2018 at 00:54, STARS: 0
A comparable Lexus SUV will cost $4500 down with a $329 monthly on a 36-month agreement. The Volvo deal cost zero dollars down with a $600 a month payment including insurance and maintenance on a 24-month agreement. Volvo deal wins.
"Luke" (lukedanger)
04/02/2018 at 00:56, STARS: 5
How does it not make sense they would check someone’s credit? You’re driving off in a 35k plus vehicle and promising to pay $600 per month in return for it. Credit checks assure that someone is trustworthy to make these payments.
"LJ909" (lj909)
04/02/2018 at 04:08, STARS: 0
Because good credit doesn’t necessarily mean that someone is responsible.
"Dk2" (dk4400)
05/02/2018 at 08:37, STARS: 2
First of all, MANY different programs use credit scores as one of the indicators of financial responsibility. Volvo doesn’t want to have someone sign up for a 2 year subscription (it’s not a month-to-month subscription) only to have the person be unable to pay by month 3. Second, this program includes auto insurance, and insurance companies typically also check your credit.
"boxrocket" (boxrocket)
05/05/2018 at 14:39, STARS: 0
Every time you upgrade to a new phone through your cell carrier, they check your credit at least once. This is largely the same thing but on a MUCH larger scale.
"Aa3739" (aa3739)
05/11/2018 at 07:28, STARS: 0
Again credit does not know how much someone makes just a set of data that shows how much you’ve allow the credit companies to make money off you and that you’ve been playing by their game. It does not show someone’s ability to pay that is someone bank statements which is the problem with our current lending network. I have lease to own ridershare cars to people who can’t get loans since it’s so hard now and I’ve had none of them keep the car when they can’t pay I have a tracking device inside it they can’t remove so easy to just go get it they were to try. There is risk of a little chop shop sure but have the vehicle be able to detect that it’s being disassembled and it’ll send signal out and police dispatch?! There is always a tech way now to help prevent theft but we can’t keep punishing those who are trying to get ahead but are behind held down by the elite credit holders.
"Coles123" (nthenry08)
05/20/2018 at 19:50, STARS: 0
The credit check is because you still have to make monthly payments that are substantial. What if you just filed for bankruptcy?! Also the insurance they have to make sure you are insurable and not a high risk driver that they are insuring.
They do say that it is a subscription and that it is a blend between a lease and ownership. A key difference is during the subscription you have full ownership of the vehicle instead of the dealership. You just have the flexibility to upgrade, and they have certain limits since they know you can walk away after two years. You have the purchase price upfront when you sign the papers.
"CMB" (cemb1)
06/14/2018 at 12:54, STARS: 1
My volvo dealer could not come close to matching the Care deal. When I asked them to work out a lease with the same specs, 15k miles a year for 2 years with no money down, it came out to over $800.00 per month. Plus the Care deal decreased my other car insurance by 75.00 a month. If you like luxury cars and a new car every 2 yrs, it is a good deal.
"MinahBe" (minahbe)
09/04/2018 at 18:54, STARS: 0
Did you end up getting this vehicle? I saw you commenting on another forum and someone congratulating you on your purchase
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/04/2018 at 19:26, STARS: 0
Nah. Honestly the whole thing was a turn off when I looked further into doing this. From them not taking my trade because this isn’t a normal purchase, to the lack of info from the direct line, to two different Volvo dealership’s either acting like they didn’t know much about Care or weren’t interested in helping me find out, I just gave up. I bought a 2018 Sonata.
"MinahBe" (minahbe)
09/05/2018 at 09:39, STARS: 0
Oh ok. Thanks for the info. I was shopping around and came up on this care lol. I guess I will keep looking. :)
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/05/2018 at 10:52, STARS: 0
Yea no problem. Pretty much avoid the auto subscription thing as a whole.