by "bwp240" (bwp240)
Published 12/04/2017 at 13:45
by "bwp240" (bwp240)
Published 12/04/2017 at 13:45
Tags: Over analyzing
STARS: 1
To the average Craigslist eye, this is a grainy picture of a Dodge Dakota Convertible at night. A convertible, a bit weird, and a 1990, so most assume that it will fall apart any second, and then the clear coat will peel off. But by over-observing and drilling down to the individual parts... This plain looking Dakota gets really complicated.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
But, there is something more here. Though this claims that this is a 1990, it has a several parts that are not correct to the year.
The grille is off a 1991 or newer truck
The wheels, 6-lugs, introduced in 1991
The headlights are post 1990, definitely after 1992.
Badging and trim match late 1990's and 1991 trucks.
To many, this simply means that the truck was maintained well and parts were replaced when they failed or modified, so what’s the big deal? Well, a Dodge Dakota convertible with these parts opens these 4 possibilities:
1. It is a 89 or 90 with several >1991 parts swapped in.
2. It is a regular cab 1991 with the roof cut off (or painted black, and probably not structurally safe)
3. It is complete BS and a scam
-or-
4. It is one of 8, 1991 Dodge Dakota convertibles
The 1991 Dodge Dakota Convertible is a bit of a Mopar truck legend, kind of like the new Ram SRT10 or new Rampage; except these exist. There has only been one sale of a 1991 convertible in recent years, and a handful of pictures of some the others, but no one really knows where they are.
Most people know about the 1989 Dakota Convertible. It came in red, white, or black and looked just like the regular version, but the roof came off. In 1990, Dodge branched out and offered the convertible in a myriad of other colors (like blue). The full list of colors is unknown. Moreover, the 1991 convertibles weren’t even disclosed to exist. It is believed this is because every one of the 8 1991's were sold before they were built. Therefore, there are no known records of the features and colors that the 91's were sold with.
The only listing of a 91 was a number of years ago on eBay (Here is an autoquid archive ). I am only able to locate 2 pictures of the 91's from the old DakotaConvertible Forums.
So is this Craigslist listing for one of those 8 convertibles? It is hard to tell just though these pictures. The grille is correct, and the headlights are post 1992. 1991 had sealed beam headlights, halogens were introduced in 1992. Many 1991 owners replaced their sealed beam lights with halogens when their lights failed. Both 1991 convertibles shown have the newer headlights.
The wheels are correct, the 6-stud wheels were introduced in 1991. Did that come from the factory, or did some person replace the wheel hubs for the 6-lug configuration. The badging and trim pieces are correct for the 1991 period as well. It is pretty convincing.
Thanks to California’s very accessible license registration database, I was able to located the VIN of the Dakota in the ad... (1B7FL69X0LS648127). I put the VIN into a decoder and received back the following...
As you can see this is a 1990. That would pretty much put all speculation to rest correct? Just for giggles, I compared that to the VIN supplied in the eBay listing. .
So back to the truck in the ad. What is it? Most likely it is a 1990 that has been maintained at least some point during it’s 27 year life. Most likely, the current/previous owner(s) either repaired or modified this truck with newer parts. Since the first generation of Dakota’s went from 1987-1996, it is very easy to bolt on parts from the later years.
I keep saying “most likely” because who really know. It would seem like a lot of effort to replace all of those parts. There is still one test that could be done to this one. In 1991, the engine bay of all Dakotas was enlarged to fit the 5.2L V8. If this one has the larger engine bay it could mean one of 3 things
It is in fact a 1991 (design).
The previous modifications went very deep in detail.
It has been in an accident.
But there is no way to do that test without looking weird. Also I have faith that the California Department of Motor Vehicles wouldn’t screw up the paperwork... certainly not... that would never happen...
But this one, just looks strange...
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
12/04/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 2
Well whatever it is, it has an open recall.
I ran the vin through FCA.
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
12/04/2017 at 13:50, STARS: 0
Whatever it is I want it very badly.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/04/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 0
Seems like there’s about a 110% chance that this is a 1990 with some updates. If it *was* a ‘91, it would have a ‘91 VIN, and the seller would probably be pretty excited to list it as a ‘91.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
12/04/2017 at 14:27, STARS: 1
Or the plates do not belong on it... or perhaps its an amalgamation of two different trucks.
The O.G. 1990 vert, and a 1991 donor vehicle.
"bwp240" (bwp240)
12/04/2017 at 14:28, STARS: 0
Yep. It most likely is. Whoever decided to put the 91 stuff on did a thorough job.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
12/04/2017 at 14:31, STARS: 0
Hm, I’m curious - wouldn’t the VIN tell you if it’s a convertible?
I guess I should clarify -the one thing it’s NOT is a 91 convertible. Could be hacked together though.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
12/04/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 1
The VIN that plate belongs to is a white 1990 convertible, yes. One with a white vinyl top though.
Otherwise everything else (sans the wheels and headlights) matches what we can see.
"Nibbles" (nibbles)
12/04/2017 at 18:10, STARS: 2
I’m willing to bet that the frame rusted out to the point of them getting a 91-96 and dropping the body on top. I can’t think of anyone in their right mind that would willingly swap out the 5-lug setup for 6 (a quite intensive process)
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
12/04/2017 at 20:04, STARS: 1
Actually, the halogen headlights were available in 1991. The sealed beams were a low cost thing for work trucks.
I can guarantee it’s not one of the 8 1991s.
Also, the larger enginebay was only length wise, so the 1991 front end swap is all that is needed to make it larger.
Oh, and 5.2 V8, not 5.7. Dodge didn’t bring out the 5.7 Hemis until 2003 IIRC, and the 5.9 wasn’t offered in the Dakota until the R/T came along in 1998.
-Owner of a 1996 Dakota.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
12/04/2017 at 20:05, STARS: 0
wait what. Uh oh, better check for mine.
"Robert Johnson" (photobob)
12/05/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 1
I am the owner of the first 91 convertible that is shown by a fountain. One sure way to tell is the date on the ASC sticker inside the door. ASC did the conversion for Mopar and mine is dated 7/91. I have done a lot of research on the 8 made in 91 and details are hard to come by. I have traced mine back to the owner in the mid 90s. He said that Dodge had 8 left on their contract with ASC and did not market the truck that year. So they made the 8 and kept them as company trucks until they were sold later on. My truck has the Indy 500, May 31 1991 decals on it and was most likely used at Indy that year. Dodge Viper was the pace car that year and Dodge trucks were the official truck at Indy. But the conversion to convertible was not made until July, which leads me to believe that the convertible was an afterthought and Mopar wanted to use up the contracted conversions. The VIN on a convertible Dakota would have it in the code. Mine does not. I have been in contact with Mopar and they have no real data on this truck other than the original build sheet. BTW, my 91 is still the original paint and has been well taken care of. The previous owner knew how rare this truck was and so do I only driving it a 1000 miles or less a year. It currently has 85k miles on it. Anyone that would like to correspond with me can reach me at photobob941@yahoo.com
"bwp240" (bwp240)
12/05/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 0
That is interesting. I would have though they would use the convertible for the 500 as a parade truck or something. To find out that it was done afterwards is quite interesting. I knew about the 1987 Indy trucks (pictured below), but I could not find any pictures of the 1991 official trucks outside of the wreckers.
The whole pace car thing for 1991 is interesting because it was suppose to be a Dodge Stealth, but at the last minute they changed it to a prototype Viper because ‘merica.
Also I didn’t know about the ASC stickers. That will really help identify the true convertibles versus the hack jobs.
"bwp240" (bwp240)
12/05/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 0
That was the big hang-up for me in the thought process. The VIN returning a 1990 should disprove any speculation that this one may be a 91. But why would someone go to all of the trouble of changing the hubs to the 6 lugs? That seems really odd to me. My first thought would be a replacement of the front and rear axles and assemblies if the originals broke or something. Second, they really wanted those rims and converted the hubs to fit - idk.
Still though, the VIN says 1990, so it is a 1990, albeit an odd looking 1990.
"bwp240" (bwp240)
12/05/2017 at 16:25, STARS: 1
Yes it does. Interestingly enough, the 91 I referenced did not note that it was a convertible. You can see Rob’s comment on that.
"Robert Johnson" (photobob)
12/06/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 0
How do I attach a photo of the 91 Indy Dakota truck.
"bwp240" (bwp240)
12/06/2017 at 23:37, STARS: 0
When you are typing a comment, click the little ‘Aa’ in the top right of the comment box. There should be a image button.
"Robert Johnson" (photobob)
12/07/2017 at 20:29, STARS: 0
It doesn’t say Indy 500 in big numbers, but here is a photo of the 91 Dakota Indy truck. BTW, my truck doesn’t look like this one. But it has Indy 500 decals on it. I’ll post a few photos of my truck too.
"Robert Johnson" (photobob)
12/07/2017 at 20:31, STARS: 0
I’ll try again. Didn’t attach. Found it online by searching “1991 Dakota Indy 500 brochure”. I am going to try to publish a link to the photo since I am not having any luck uploading the photos.
"bwp240" (bwp240)
12/10/2017 at 01:21, STARS: 0
Does this happen to be your truck? I see the Indy logo in the top left corner.
https://www.usadscenter.com/1991-Dodge-Dakota-New-York-City-165428
"Robert Johnson" (photobob)
12/10/2017 at 17:00, STARS: 0
Yes it is. I listed it on ebay a few years ago and several people across the country have tried to list it as their own. Scammers everywhere. I tried to get some of them pulled, but not not much luck. They even use the exact words that I used.
"dearbornerik" (dearbornerik)
03/25/2018 at 15:19, STARS: 0
I have one a 1991 dakota in michigan
"dearbornerik" (dearbornerik)
10/14/2018 at 09:36, STARS: 0
I have a true 1991 you can look me up on Facebook ERik Biggs Dearborn Michigan