by "dieseldub" (dieseldub)
Published 11/26/2017 at 14:23
by "dieseldub" (dieseldub)
Published 11/26/2017 at 14:23
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STARS: 5
What’s wrong with this article?
Here, let me point it out for you.
“There have been other reports from police departments of carbon monoxide seeping into their cruisers, and other crashes as well. Now Ford thinks it may have determined the cause: unsealed holes drilled in the body of the vehicle for wiring of emergency lights and radios.”
Article goes on to say how Ford is not taking responsibility for the issues arising from carbon monoxide intrusion into the cabin.
Then the very next paragraph:
“Ford also says there have been reports of cracked engine manifolds, which it is checking for in police Explorers, but the company says this issue is unrelated to the carbon monoxide entering the cabin.”
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
First, let’s start with how exceptionally effective 3 way catalytic converters are at reducing carbon monoxide levels to perfectly safe to breath levels out of the tail pipe of modern gas engines. Exceptionally effective. Guess what happens when you have an exhaust leak before those catalytic converters, like, say, FROM A CRACKED EXHAUST MANIFOLD. SEVERAL TIMES HIGHER concentration of Carbon Monoxide and other harmful to breath pollutants. But NOOOO, the cracked exhaust manifolds have NOTHING to do with carbon monoxide poisoning, despite the fact that a cracked exhaust manifold is not only allowing untreated exhaust to escape, but it’s also escaping UNDER THE HOOD exactly where all these extra holes were cut for additional equipment. If there were no exhaust manifold leaks, exhaust would exit behind the car, properly treated, and would not intrude into the cabin anyway.
Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining, OK?
This is the difference between your typical deny all liability American corporation and Volkswagen, who cheated emissions tests for NOx, but those emissions didn’t actually do any real harm to people, then they come out and give consumers by far the most generous compensation package in history.
Meanwhile in America, people are being hospitalized with carbon monoxide poisoning and crashing their vehicles, Ford is just like “Nope, not us! It’s the aftermarket! Oh, nevermind the epidemic of cracked exhaust manifolds, that’s nothing.”
What the fuck. You can’t be serious. Where’s the blood sucking lawyers on this one? Where’s the media faux outrage they’re normally so good at? Nah, Ford says that’s not a problem, let it go.
REALLY?!
I think once again I get to blame the media’s and greater world at large’s lack of understanding of basic mechanical principles. You have no idea how many times I’ve gotten incensed reading articles that are trying to cover technical aspects of the automotive world but so completely miss the mark because the author just does not have the basic understanding required to make an accurate report.
Guess the guys who do understand how it all works are too busy actually working on the problems to be bothered to write about it.
"dieseldub" (dieseldub)
11/26/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 1
My last statement, there is a similar remark that rings true: “Those who can, do, those who can’t, teach.”
No, it’s not entirely true as there are many very knowledgeable and experienced technicians who I did learn from in a classroom environment... But then again, they were often times teaching because they were physically unable to do that level of work every day. The mind is willing, but the body not so much sort of situation, so even in that case it rings pretty true, but they at least had the experience and knowledge to back up their credentials to be able to teach and do so with great accuracy and understanding.
Unfortunately, there are far too many who don’t have the experience to back up their position of teaching, same goes for journalism many times.
"jimz" (jimz)
11/26/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 3
You should apply for a job in VW’s PR department. You’ve got the “whataboutism” skills required.
Nevermind comparing an investigation into a possible flaw to a wide-ranging culture of deliberate malfeasance.
And LOL at “VW never hurt anyone.” If NOx emissions were harmless they wouldn’t be so strictly regulated.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
11/26/2017 at 16:00, STARS: 1
They aren’t technically wrong. Should they fix the exhaust manifolds? Yes. Should they be blamed for an aftermarket addition that is completely unaccounted for in any way buy any engineer or computer program along the line? Definitely not. They definitely should fix the manifold issue though.
Side note, you are absolutely insane if you think what VW did caused no harm to people. Plus theirs ended up on millions of cars and a whole culture was built to support what they did.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
11/26/2017 at 17:28, STARS: 1
Read some of his/her other articles. His/her understanding of vehicle emissions is pretty interesting, and they definitely have an infatuation with VW.
"SpeedSix" (speedsix)
11/26/2017 at 18:11, STARS: 2
Yup,
then they come out and give consumers by far the most generous compensation package in history.
That was mandated by law in the U.S. - no similar compensation scheme was announced for Canada, so a class-action had to be filed against Volkswagen Canada for similar compensation.
"jimz" (jimz)
11/27/2017 at 09:13, STARS: 1
the username “dieseldub” tipped me off to that.
"dieseldub" (dieseldub)
11/27/2017 at 11:12, STARS: 0
NOx by itself is not harmful. The problem with NOx is that it combines with VOCs in the atmosphere and given low wind, warm ambient conditions and plentiful sunlight (conditions frequently present in many areas of California), a chemical reaction happens that creates low level ozone, which is a particulate and the primary component of visible smog.
Read up on “the weekend effect” some time. You might be surprised to find that the study found smog actually increased on the weekends where there was less diesel truck traffic because it lowered NOx just enough to actually increase production of ozone. There’s a ratio of NOx to VOCs that is just right to maximize production of ozone, and the chemistry of the atmosphere at the time of the study actually made things worse.
Now, even the EPA and CARB debated on what to do with NOx regs for years. But when it became evident that technologies were coming available to make a drastic reduction in NOx output from diesel engines, they decided to create new regulations that reduce NOx levels 10 times from what previous regulations were allowing. Figuring a drastic reduction in NOx would be better than finding another way to skew the ratio of VOCs to NOx.
Which is fair, the advent of particulate traps and improved NOx reduction equipment has actually done a world of good. I just get tired of hearing the character assassination of a highly fuel efficient technology based on misinformation and public sentiment more than it is based on actual scientific truths.
When CARB says VW’s diesels were putting out more than 10x the limits of NOx, few people actually have read the evolution of emissions regulations to know that CARB had also recently tightened NOx regs to more than 10x lower than what they were for model year 2003... And if you haven’t perceived of any significant improvement in air quality in that time, maybe it’s not as bad as some poorly informed outlets make it out to be. Our emissions regulations were already highly effective at reducing smog at that point.
Plenty of dirty hippies out there running around with biodiesel and waste veggie oil powered ancient Mercedes and VW diesels that actually spew more NOx than any cheating VW ever did. Actually kind of funny, CARB found that conventional biodiesel use increased NOx output, so they banned its use in 100% concentrations and now only allow retail outlets to sell it mixed with 80% regular ultra low sulphur diesel. But good luck convincing those crunchy motherfuckers that they’re doing more harm than good by running veggie oil in an ancient diesel that has ZERO smog equipment on it.
Long story short, NOx doesn’t kill people, CO does. And diesels naturally emit exceptionally low levels of CO anyway, hence why diesels into the 90s didn’t even need catalytic converters to meet smog regs. Also hence why Europe had a hard-on for diesels back then, because they were genuinely considered a safer option to gasoline. Diesel also has a far higher flash point, doesn’t emit vapors at average ambient temperatures. You’ll notice at California fuel pumps that diesel pumps just get an old school splash guard, gas handles get the vapor capture boots.
Now of course Europe has realized they made a mistake by encouraging the adoption of diesels before they became genuinely clean. They spewed raw particulate matter on top of the additional NOx and it has definitely harmed air quality in their large city centers. But, here’s where it gets stupid, now that diesels are equipped with particulate traps and emissions regs have reduce NOx levels to very low levels (if the manufacturer isn’t cheating that is), it’s pretty dumb to want to banish an entire technology when they are now (again, if not cheating) every bit as clean as gas engines with regards to NOx, and now actually CLEANER than gas in every other regard (particulate matter, CO, HC and NMOGs/VOCs).
What VW did was stupid and it harmed the image of diesel as a whole unnecessarily. But I will argue all day that NOx did not kill any individual. You don’t hear anyone being hospitalized with NOx poisoning now do you? No. You hear them hospitalized with CO poisoning from driving a gas vehicle with a leaky exhaust.
"dieseldub" (dieseldub)
11/27/2017 at 11:29, STARS: 0
Also, for what it’s worth, the vast majority of NOx from diesel is plain old NO, which isn’t harmful at all to the human body. In fact, your body produces NO in your endothilial cells to keep your blood free flowing and veins clear of plaque. If you eat shitty foods that cause inflammation your body produces less NO and your veins clog the fuck up.
A small fraction of diesel exhaust is NO2, which is indeed bad shit. But regulations lump “NOx” together and don’t separate the fact that one form of NOx isn’t so bad compared to others.
Too bad they don’t produce much N20, then everyone could just have a laugh while driving behind a diesel.
Ain’t chemistry fun?
"jimz" (jimz)
11/27/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 0
NOx by itself is not harmful.
tell that to anyone with asthma or other respiratory conditions.
besides, you’re dumb for still trying to compare a possible design flaw (which despite your Chicken Little bullshit hasn’t been linked to the other issue) with deliberate corporate malfeasance.
VW got smacked so hard because they MEANT to do what they did.
Sorry someone is being so mean to your favorite car company.