by "NKato" (NKato)
Published 11/21/2017 at 20:57
by "NKato" (NKato)
Published 11/21/2017 at 20:57
Tags: First Car
; The Hunt For An Agent
STARS: 2
Y’all are probably wondering what the headline has to do with Opposite Lock. Well, it’s car-related. I hope that’s sufficient enough.
Here’s some context: I’ve been searching for a job for the past 10 years, and realized that my lack of a car has been a major handicap in addition to my ‘disability’ (I’m deaf). I have to rectify this as soon as possible.
So now that I’ve got a job that pays close to state minimum wage, in a region that’s got a rising cost of living, my priority is turning towards saving up for a car.
Here’s the rub: I want a car I can maintain easily on my own, but have plenty of long-life potential. That is to say, a lifetime car.
I looked at a variety of options, and settled on a simple set of criteria.
It must be body-on-frame, not unibody. This allows for more affordable body repair and maintenance.
It must have a V8. Mileage be damned.
It’s gotta be a sedan.
It’s gotta have a reputation of being rock-solid, reliable, and not prone to breakdowns.
It must have only the barest minimum required for electronics.
It must have a massive surplus of automotive parts on the market, and have commonality with other vehicles of the same - and different platforms.
I came upon one car model that fit the criteria: The second-generation Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. This car has had some teething issues prior to the 2008 model year, but for the most part has proven to be a stellar vehicle for police departments nationally. It has commonality with the 1999-2004 Ford Mustang, Mercury Grand Marquis, and the Mercury Marauder. That means, with the high numbers of Mustangs still riding the roads, the CVPI is more likely to remain serviceable for two to three decades.
I’ve heard some people say that the Crown Vic is a hit-or-miss purchase, and I don’t disagree. Some LEO services are not as likely to be impeccable with their maintenance, and as the vehicles begin to reach the end of their service lifetimes, mechanic departments will become less concerned about keeping them in tip-top shape. That’s why I’m leaning towards specific criteria regarding the vehicles.
Now, they’re being liquidated nationwide at Government Surplus Auctions (GSA’s), and often get turned into taxicabs or ghetto-mobiles by poor-ass people who’d rather just stick some 20" rims on to the tune of $3,000, a mighty lousy financial decision on their part.
Me, I’m more interested in having fun tinkering with it in my free time. I want it to last me a lifetime, like that centenarian with a Rolls Royce from 1920.
Here’s the rub, though. Since I’m deaf, lack personal means of transportation, and public transit is spotty in general, and I’m generally far from the auction lots in this county, I have doubts about whether or not I can get the car I want locally.
The $5,000 question, at this point, is simply: “What can I do to acquire the car I want, affordably?”
There are two apparent solutions after spending the last few weeks researching the question.
I can hire an agent who has experience with auctions and has a dealer’s license.
I can buy directly from an auto broker who deals especially in surpus auctions.
There’s another problem. The former is extremely difficult to accomplish, as many independent dealers and brokers are less likely to work with me due to the low market value of the Crown Victoria.
The second issue is, if I went with the latter option, there are no brokers in the Washington State or Pacific Northwest region that I know of who handle these kinds of sales. They’re a rare breed.
However, I have found a third possible option: purchasing from out-of-state. The problem at that point then becomes the ability to have the vehicle shipped to me, if I were to purchase it from those brokers. I am extremely inexperienced in the matter. Due to my employment obligations, I cannot just ask for a week off so soon after being hired to fly down, get the car, then drive it back up here. That would make for some really bad optics.
The first two options are extremely difficult to guarantee in any reasonable capacity. The third option, while more expensive, is more likely to produce the desired result.
“But why don’t you just go to the local auctions anyway?” you might say.
Sonny, weren’t you reading carefully? I wrote that I lack essential things that would enable me to personally participate in auctions. Which would be timely, reliable personal transportation to convey myself to the auction lot after my shifts, and the ability to locate a reliable mechanic who won’t just half-ass the inspection job. And then there’s being able to bid - some auctions are online, some aren’t. If I win a bid, I’d have to be able to reliably reach the auction lot to retrieve my vehicle.
At every turn, there is something that either A) makes the time investment too costly to me due to my responsibilities, or B) the communication barrier makes things extremely difficult.
At this point, I honestly have no idea what to do going forward. I have plans to save up my money until late spring or early summer, so that I don’t have to deal with financing shenanigans on the part of auto dealers if I ever have to go that route. With that in mind, this places my purchasing window somewhere in 2018.
In fact, I visited an auto dealer this week, and while they tried their best to communicate with me, the repeated attempts to get me to commit to financing was a tremendous turn-off - I found that to be quite disrespectful given my circumstances.
Now I don’t like dealers.
I suppose that about sums up my overall issue that I thought to convey to y’all at Opposite Lock. If you have any thoughts, suggestions, or recommendations to share, I’d love to read ‘em.
Update: I just realized I have absolutely no friggin’ clue what to expect with out-of-state title transfers if I decide to pull the trigger on a car outside of Washington. What should I expect, and be prepared to do?
One of the issues I can see being a problem is not being able to sign the paperwork. Is there any way to handle this remotely?
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
11/21/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 0
crown vic? what a POS.
B-body roadmaster or something would be a better choice. LT motors are more commonly hopped up and easier to take care of.
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:04, STARS: 3
There are two other reasons why I’m interested in the vic. The first is because I’m deaf, and it has a reputation - people around me are more likely to drive carefully, which is a benefit. The second, is the aftermarket options — pushbars, fender guards, divider for the cabin (if I decide I wanna do late-night Ubers for drunks), and there are even skidplates available to help protect the undercarriage against random road debris...like shredded tires coming from a semi.
God knows I’d want a bombproof car.
"rillweid - Now with more TRD and less TDI" (rillweid)
11/21/2017 at 21:05, STARS: 2
Check Craigslist too. They often come up for sale in my area. Plenty of these exist outside the auction market. I would also suggestion getting a federal one if you can. They often seem to be better maintained and come with fun toys like fire suppression systems. Another avenue is to go get a chief/admin car that will usually be much nicer, and without as many holes and modifications from police service.
"promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
11/21/2017 at 21:07, STARS: 0
1990s Lexus LS400. I know it’s unibody, but Toyota reliability and no-expense-spared engineering for well under $5000 is worth the trade-off IMO. It’s about on par with the average subcompact in terms of electronics complexity.
Plus it sounds like this if you run straight pipes:
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
11/21/2017 at 21:11, STARS: 0
you do know cops used b body caprices for years before the vic right?
also, all the reputation in the world can hide the fact that its a AGONIZINGLY slow, heavy, thirsty, unreliable pile of crap that chews through consumables like nothing else on earth.
also, you want aftermarket. have you SEEN what people do to old b bodys? have you seen what the mechanical aftermarket for that heap is? the entirely of the crown vic aftermarket is like chapter one in the b-body book. maybe the prologue.
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:12, STARS: 0
Mm...not sure if I want a Chevy, though. Don’t they have enough problems to begin with? :P
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:13, STARS: 0
I’ve been getting recommendations for the LS400. While I appreciate the car, I’m not sure if I want to go with it. Can’t quite put my finger on it, but there’s something about them that puts me off.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
11/21/2017 at 21:19, STARS: 0
and you think a ford thats been used as a cab or a cop car wont?
"XJDano" (xjdano)
11/21/2017 at 21:19, STARS: 6
Did you read the part about him being deaf? I mean you can kind of feel the vibrations through the exhaust, but can’t really sell a deaf guy a car on how it sounds.
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:24, STARS: 1
Crown Vic cabs are often already retired Police Interceptors. They would be in worse shape than the ones that are coming onto the government auction block as part of the retirement process.
Also, it’s been said that their engines are capable of going 300,000 miles without a rebuild, and it’s been known that they are often retired from the police force before 150,000 miles. That leaves plenty of room for it to run. Of course, that doesn’t account for idling time.
I’m quite aware that there may be some issues to deal with, but unlike a certain 1979 Buick Regal that I had been looking at last week, it’s not likely to blow a $5,000 hole in my wallet.
The Crown Vic is going to be a slow-burn of a project car, where I make improvements to it over its lifetime, as opposed to simply just trying to tie things together to get it to last for another year.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
11/21/2017 at 21:35, STARS: 1
My friend got savvy her third time around on those Interceptors and bought one that was used as a Citizen Patrol car instead of a cop car. Less idling, less “flooring it to stop the perp,”often driven by silver foxes through residential neighborhoods and waving to lonely housewives, dreaming. She’s driven it daily for 4 years, and she has one hell of a commute.
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:36, STARS: 0
Those tend to have Street Appearance packages, which is nice - they’ll retain their value for longer, especially with an engine/transmission rebuild. The downside is that they tend to be more expensive at auction, most winning bids are in the $4k-$6k range.
I’m leaning more towards a city patrol car. Won’t have the rear seats, but I can probably scrounge one up from a local junkyard or reseller for cheap. I’m planning to do some custom interior work in my free time. :D
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:41, STARS: 0
Nice. But I don’t think CVPI’s as “Citizen Patrol” cars are a common thing. In fact, they’re pretty rare. Here in my town, I see official citizen patrols in Priuses.
Even if the engines have idled for a while, it shouldn’t be over-the-top expensive to replace or rebuild the engine compared to say, replacing the Coyote 5.0L in a 2015 Mustang.
"Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief" (flynorcal)
11/21/2017 at 21:47, STARS: 0
I’ve noticed a few choice looking specimens on the SF Bay Area Craigslist. While I tend to gravitate to cars that can outrun a police car, I find them fascinating anyway. They’re overbuilt and sturdy and seem a good value for the dollar. Best of luck and if you need anything driven North from SF just cover the gas. I’ll pick up the cost of the return flight.
"promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
11/21/2017 at 21:48, STARS: 0
Yes, but it’ll scare the timid drivers out of his way!
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go straight pipe my Camry.
"XJDano" (xjdano)
11/21/2017 at 21:48, STARS: 1
https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=141&acctid=7388
There’s another gov site to check on. Have you considered a suburban or Tahoe? 4 doors make it a sedan, but it’s no car.
Good luck with your search and acquisition.
"XJDano" (xjdano)
11/21/2017 at 21:50, STARS: 0
I had a flomaster 40 on my jeep Cherokee 4.0. Such growl.
"ranwhenparked" (ranwhenparked)
11/21/2017 at 21:51, STARS: 0
I’ve got a Panther I’d sell you for $2700. Its a bit older, but has been shockingly reliable and I’ve already taken care of most of the serious age related stuff.
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:54, STARS: 0
One reason why I’m not sold on looking at ones coming from Craigslist is because they are third-hand sales, meaning they already were purchased at auction. The reliable maintenance history gets spotty, usually.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
11/21/2017 at 21:58, STARS: 0
What is this citizen patrol thing. Does that... Happen here?
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 21:58, STARS: 0
Thanks for the source. I’d consider the Suburbans or Tahoes, but I think they might have equivalent or worse mileage than the Crown Vic, and I’m not sure if I want a vehicle that might have worse blind-spot visibility.
There’s a couple of reasons why I’m steering way clear of the Dodge Charger Pursuits that have been going under the gavel lately.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
11/21/2017 at 22:02, STARS: 1
Sure! Here’s the one they use in my parent’s town (Island County).
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
11/21/2017 at 22:06, STARS: 0
Huh. Learn something new every day
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 22:15, STARS: 0
Also, as an aside, I will keep your offer in mind. I’m actually eyeballing that 2011 CVPI over in Oregon that XJDano linked. Comes with cage and police seats in the back? You bet I’m gonna be watching that like a hawk!
"NKato" (NKato)
11/21/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 0
I appreciate the offer, but I think I’m gonna try to shoot for a 2010/2011 first. I’ll get in touch with you for yours if I have to. :)
"ranwhenparked" (ranwhenparked)
11/21/2017 at 22:52, STARS: 0
Totally understandable, I wouldn’t want to rely on something from the Reagan area for daily transportation, either. I mean, I have, but only for like a week at a time when the other car was down.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
11/21/2017 at 23:29, STARS: 0
Ex police Tahoe maybe?
"The Snowman" (the-snowman)
11/22/2017 at 00:52, STARS: 0
Find an old lady grand Marquis. My grandma has a 2010 with 35,000 miles on it. I told her I want it when she gives up her license on her birthday next year. This thing looks like it rolled off the line yesterday.
"Braniff747SP" (braniff747sp)
11/22/2017 at 02:03, STARS: 1
Uber doesn’t allow Crown Vics, just FYI.
"Hammerdown" (hammerdown32)
11/22/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 0
If you’ve got cash, a dealer isn’t so bad. You walk in, say “I want that” put the cash on the table and walk out. IMO the Civ cars are nicer as well. I was it your same situation 3 years ago. I wanted a newer CVPI when I started looking. For the same money I found a civilian version with under 100,000 miles, leather, cruise, etc. It’s been bulletproof for 3 1/2 years and 50,000 miles.
https://www.xgovernmentcars.com/default.aspx
These guys are here in Minneapolis and move tons of CVPI’s if that’s what you decide on.
"Hammerdown" (hammerdown32)
11/22/2017 at 10:33, STARS: 0
They’re really too old to have a reputation anymore. People are worried about the Taurus and Explorers now.
"NKato" (NKato)
11/22/2017 at 21:45, STARS: 0
Why not? :P
"NKato" (NKato)
11/22/2017 at 21:47, STARS: 0
Thanks for the source. Bookmarked! One problem though, doesn’t Minneapolis use a hell of a lot of rock salt for deicing the roads in winter? That’s kind of a corrosion risk for the cars sourced from that region.
"Braniff747SP" (braniff747sp)
11/23/2017 at 01:55, STARS: 0
No idea. I assume it’s because the Crown Vic is the traditional cab car, but it seems pretty dumb to me.