by "Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
Published 11/16/2017 at 11:22
by "Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
Published 11/16/2017 at 11:22
Tags: Stealership
; Fees
; financing
; help
; askoppo
STARS: 1
We did end up buying that 2011 Odyssey I posted about (pics and review to come on that later). The financing was done through Wells Fargo. We signed all the paperwork, gave them our down payment, and everything was good to go.
Then I got a phone call two days ago from the dealership’s financing guy saying that they’re changing the bank for my loan from Wells Fargo to a local credit union because Wells Fargo wanted to charge them some $500 fee for paperwork. They say that nothing else will change; my interest rate, monthly payment, etc. will stay exactly as I agreed to them. I just have to sign all of this paperwork and join the credit union (oh, and they’re going to cover the application fee or whatever).
This doesn’t pass the smell test for me. Are they being honest with me about what’s going on (I know, car dealership, so probably not)? Or are they working some better deal to make more money on their end out of this? I talked it over with my dad and that was his thought, and that I can either refuse to sign the paperwork, or I can try to work something out of the deal, like asking for some sort of extended warranty or half the money they’re saving from the “paperwork fee”. Has anyone else had this happen? Or perhaps work in finance at a dealership that would know if this is legit or not? Pic of a badass Ford GT render for your time.
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
11/16/2017 at 11:34, STARS: 3
local credit union usually do have better rates
but if you dont sign anything theres nothing they can do
speaking of, if i were you i would go to more / different local credit union to shop for BETTER rate
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/16/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 5
So, you have already bought and financed the car, and drove off, and *now* they’re trying to change the bank (and make you jump through another hoop?).
NOPE! You were approved before you left, unless the dealer is a moron. And there’s no way the dealer didn’t know about some Wells fee in advance (again, unless they’re morons).
Lehto (or other attorneys) will know more than I do, but it seems to me you’re under no obligation here. My guess is that they’re trying to pad their profit a bit more. You could try to get more out of them, if you’re willing to open the account (be wary, that account may have strings attached).
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/16/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 0
I’ve heard of dealerships going back to a customer a couple days after a sale because the loan they thought would get approved didn’t actually get approved. Usually because they’re not always submitting these loans to banks in real time and they don’t always get it right.
Not sure about this $500 fee deal. It could be real, but my next thought is that what if there’s a possibly lower rate available from the credit union? Not sure if the dealer would tell this to you but you could do a little sleuthing to see what the best available rates are from the credit union.
Even if the rate really truly is the same, all else being equal I’d rather be paying a local credit union than shitty evil Wells Fargo.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
11/16/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 0
Since the OP has already signed, they’re on the hook. If they hadn’t signed, they’d be better off goingwith your advice, though. In the future, if they take this deal, they’ll already be a CU member so they can use them. Chances are that they’ll do better by refinancing with the CU immediately.
"gettingoldercarguy" (gettingoldercarguy)
11/16/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 1
Have them put that in writing, deliver to a consumer protection attorney.
"ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy" (bakeshake)
11/16/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 0
I’ve read on here before (probably from Lehto) about a shady dealer tactic where they’ll call you back in after the sale to re-sign stuff because “something went wrong with the bank” or whatever, and they’ve actually changed the terms of the loan. My local Honda place did this with both my mom and in-laws.
But even if they’re being truthful in saying that none of the terms changed, you’re under no obligation to do anything, as someone else said. Dealerships get kickbacks from banks for doing loans, so I bet that could be the root cause of what’s going on.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
11/16/2017 at 11:46, STARS: 2
Lehto already did an article about this (and a podcast, I think). This is a common thing for shady used dealers, but it’s usually to jack the rate.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
11/16/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 2
Go to the CU independently, and give them a sniff test in person.
I’d be awfully surprised if they didn’t know about any related fee well in advance of going with WF.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/16/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 1
I was thinking that - -you should reply this to the OP to make sure he sees it and digs it out.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
11/16/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
Here you go, listen to Steve Lehto.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/dont-let-the-dealer-steal-back-your-car-the-podcast-1733711801
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
11/16/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 1
Given that this dealership is part of a huge dealership network owned by a very famous and wealthy multi-championship winning NASCAR team owner, my first thought was there’s no way they didn’t know about any fees associated with Wells Fargo. And that’s what raised the red flag on it.
And thanks for mentioning Steve Lehto. I changed the title in hopes he’ll be on and see this and chime in.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
11/16/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 1
Well this is from a Toyota dealership that’s part of a huge dealership network, owned by the most dominant team owner in NASCAR. It’s no sketchy used car dealership or anything. And I’ll have to see if I can find that article, thanks!
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
11/16/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 1
Saw it and will look for the article. Thanks for looking out!
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
11/16/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 0
We looked at local credit unions, and given the year/mileage, their rates weren’t quite as good.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
11/16/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 1
That’s weird, coming from a real dealer. Maybe it’s really an honest mistake? WF is going through some shit, so it’s possible there was a recent change to their policies.
I would still say go check out the CU. The threshold to establish one is not that high.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/16/2017 at 12:09, STARS: 0
Great! Good luck - WF *is* a mess right now, so it’s possible that the problem is there- - but I don’t think it’s *your* problem, because you signed papers and took the car. And I still think the onus is on the dealer to do their homework before they let you take the keys.
Being a big name dealer certainly doesn’t prevent them from pulling funny business, though, either - so stay skeptical!
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/16/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 0
Go through the paperwork you signed and see if there’s a form in there about giving them the right to secure different financing. Usually that’s for loans that get turned down, you then agree to some absurd dealership rate, but check that paperwork and see what it says. Make sure you have a hard approval from Wells and that the loan is valid. If so, tell the dealership to pound sand, you have no obligation to save them any money, if their claim of an origination fee is legit.
"Cash Rewards" (cashrewards)
11/16/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 0
If there’s ever a need to interface with the loan provider for any reason, who would you rather deal with. Wells Fargo has done some shady shit recently, but unless you can get some good info on the credit union, it’s an unknown. Dealer had no long term concerns here, you have customer service for the years of your loan.
"SpeedSix" (speedsix)
11/16/2017 at 16:10, STARS: 1
And thanks for mentioning Steve Lehto. I changed the title in hopes he’ll be on and see this and chime in.
I haven’t seen Lehto around in quite awhile - I believe his column is now mostly on Road & Track.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
11/16/2017 at 17:46, STARS: 0
I haven’t seen him around here lately either. I tried calling the number on his website but got voicemail. Hopefully he’ll call me back and I can run this by him. If not, I think I should still be ok. I looked over my paperwork and the contract states the sale price and the APR and all, so they can’t change any of that. I really think they just decided to shop around and found a better deal where they make some extra $$$ by going through a different bank. I’m gonna call the finance guy back and try to get every last detail on it.
"Khalbali" (khalbali2)
11/16/2017 at 20:07, STARS: 0
It happens pretty regularly for less than nefarious reasons, maybe wells Fargo wouldn’t approve the deal for some reason so they had to go with the credit union. Or maybe wells Fargo gave them a buy rate that was what they already promised you but the credit unions rate was lower so they keep the difference. This sounds shady but isn’t always, the dealership I worked at made almost no money on the front end of the deal, most of the profit came from interest rates and warranties and such. It’s just another way dealerships have had to adapt. Legally in the state I worked in, we could add up to 2% to the rate set by the lender as profit.
"Enginerrrrrrrrr" (Enginerrrrrrrrr)
12/04/2017 at 20:45, STARS: 1
If Lehto doesn’t reply, you can ask him on his website directly. I’ve had a response from him for that before through email.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
12/05/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 0
Thanks. I appreciate the info. I ended up calling the dealer on the BS and made them go with the original financing agreement. I offered to switch if the guy split the savings with me but he wasn’t having it. When I told him there was no point in me doing all this extra work then just to save them money and get nothing out of it, he hung up, lol. Needless to say, I won’t be doing business there ever again.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
01/17/2018 at 10:14, STARS: 0
Sorry about this but I did not see the thread until now. But for academic purposes I will point out a few things. Most situations like this have a Buyer, buying from a Seller (dealer) and financing through a third party Lender. The Buyer signs a Contract with the Seller and that Contract often obligates the Buyer to make payments to the Seller.
Where it gets confusing is that most people assume the contract obligates them directly to the bank and this is usually NOT the case. In fact, what happens is that the Seller ASSIGNS the debt to the Lender and the document (usually in the form of a finance agreement) will state right on it: “I agree to pay the Seller $X and the Seller has the right to assign this contract/debt to a 3rd party” (or it might actually say a particular bank and it might even be on the bank’s form).
If the assignment fails (could happen for a lot of reasons, including that the bank was not asked in advance if it would approve a loan with a particular Buyer) then the loan obligation reverts back to the Seller (but the sale does NOT fall apart necessarily). In the case described above, the Seller is the one that balked really, not the bank. But the point is that the documents in play that were signed by the Buyer are what created an enforceable contract - and the rigamarole between the Seller and the Lender should not affect that deal one bit.