by "WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
Published 11/15/2017 at 14:33
by "WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
Published 11/15/2017 at 14:33
Tags: save the manuals
; it's not that hard
; Manual
; manual transmission
; e46
; rants
STARS: 4
So, I’m DD’ing the BMW convertible these days, since my wife and I are down to *only* 3 cars temporarily (lol). Traffic has been heavy all week, thanks to rain, so I’ve been dealing with a lot of stop and go traffic in a stick shift car.
I know a lot of people complain about driving stick in traffic, but it just doesn’t seem that bad. By staying patient (ie not staying 2 feet off the bumper of the next car), I can putter along in 1st or 2nd gear and not use the clutch or brake much at all.
My car is pretty well suited to that, I guess - clutch isn’t heavy, has a decent amount of torque, short gearing, and it tends not to jerk at low speeds in 1st - but it’s really not that much work.
My biggest headaches are getting my son’s car seat in and out of the back seat, and worrying about tailgaters that won’t see any brake lights from me slowing down, thanks to engine braking. Those people usually back way off pretty quickly when they realize I can almost stop the car without brakes.
Yeah, it’s more work than an auto, but it’s hardly a back breaker - what’s your take on this? Too much work, or it gives you something to do?
"Tareim - V8 powered" (tareimgaml)
11/15/2017 at 14:38, STARS: 4
not sure how it is in the states but in the UK with 2 lanes or more (going same direction) unless you are 2 feet from the bumper in front of you someone will try and cut in if your lane is moving even a fraction quicker than theirs, hence why stop and go traffic sucks for a manual (especially if the car has a heavy clutch)
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 1
It never bothered me except in the snow in the TDI. Even with snow tires it was too much like a light switch for traction.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 0
I live in the Chicago metro area, and it’s pretty similar. I keep a reasonable distance - - within 1 car length 90% of the time, so it doesn’t really leave space for others to cut in front of me, although it happens once in a while.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
11/15/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 1
It would really suck in the RallyMetro. No power, finicky trans that won’t let me downshift from 2nd into 1st unless I come to a complete stop.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 0
I’m surprised - maybe it’s because the TDI is so torquey? I actually like stick in the snow - - I feel like I have better control, and often start from a dead stop in 2nd (and even 3rd on a downslope).
That said, snow + traffic around Chicago is a HORRIBLE combination, because people are idiots.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:44, STARS: 1
Yeah, the TDI was either dead for power or full head of steam and the difference is like 300 rpm. It was just too on/off which made it hard to get moving. With the Forster the manual was the much better choice.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
11/15/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 1
I am infinitely envious of your E46 manual. The Steptronic sucks all the fun out of the car except in corners.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/15/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 1
I do it every day. Thankfully, I generally only experience a few minutes of stop & go traffic going in (none if I leave home early enough) and maybe around 10 minutes of it going home. Like you, I kind of make a game of it and see if I can time it all right where I don’t have to mess with the clutch or brake at all for long stretches (only works if traffic is actually crawling, of course). If my drive was all stop & go, every day, I’d probably seriously reconsider dailying a manual...
"MylesD" (mylesd)
11/15/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 1
Agreed. I think this is overblown and some cars are just downright easy (VW for me) to drive in traffic. I will say Subaru has been worse for traffic (basing off 01 Forrester and ‘06 STI) Every clutch depression and shift is like a rubber band.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
I suppose that’s partly the quirks of the RallyMetro, but I could see that being a headache in any Metro. I think that having decent low-end torque makes stop and go life a lot easier, and the Metro is missing that.
FWIW, I hardly ever downshift from 2nd to 1st in the BMW, either, mostly because it doesn’t serve much purpose. The car is happy pulling away in 2nd gear with any forward motion at all.
"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012)
11/15/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 1
I was daily driving a corvette manual till about a week or so ago.
I agree. It’s not terrible. I have no idea what condition the clutch is in, but driving isn’t terrible
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/15/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 1
I don’t usually experience long enough patches of stop & go traffic for it to bother me. It has been frustrating on occasional trips to Chicago where I’ll hit traffic on I-90 at like, Schaumburg or somewhere way far out like that and then have to ride it all the way to downtown. It gets brutal around 294 and 190 by O’Hare and usually lets up a little after that, until it doesn’t. Sometimes I curse at that stretch of highway.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 0
I’m heavily biased toward NA motors for much that reason.
"Jonee" (Jonee)
11/15/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 1
I daily drive a manual in L.A., so I spend a lot of time in bumper to bumper traffic. A LOT of time. And it’s never bothered me. Gives me something to do. I also don’t get why folks think it’s a big deal.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 0
Manual swap!!!
You have a hell of a lot more power than I do, and my car is a couple hundred pounds heavier, to boot, so there’s that.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
11/15/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 1
The clutch in my 528i is kinda heavy but it’s more an annoyance than a dealbreaker. What I don’t get is why people make such a big deal about hillstarts. It’s stupidly easy do do them with no rollback.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
11/15/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 1
I had stop & go all the time with a manual, still miss having one
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
11/15/2017 at 14:57, STARS: 5
If you’re “puttering along” in gear, you’re not really in “stop and go” traffic, are you? It’s true stop-and-go, like, where you have to stop for 30 seconds, then move forward 80 feet, then stop again, where a manual might start to feel like it’s more trouble than it’s worth. You can’t just crawl along in first when the car in front of you stops every 30 seconds without leaving like 100 feet in front of you, and in most places, if you aren’t riding the bumper in front of you, you’re getting honked at by the person behind you for letting in an endless stream of dickheads, who are also eating up the space you’d need to leave to crawl along without stopping.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:57, STARS: 1
My commute is ~25 miles, and generally takes about an hour, including a brief stop at my in-laws to drop off my son. There are stretches where I’m doing 75, and others where it tends to crawl/stop and go, but the split varies daily. So I’m not spending *that* much time in the worst of it - maybe 8 miles or so on I-294 is typical.
Much of it is crawling where you can play that game, too.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 0
LOL- my office is right off of 90, a few hundred yards after the merge with 190 (Cumberland exit).
Most of my commute is on 294 though, which is a bit better.
"wkiernan" (wkiernan)
11/15/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 1
Lightly toe your brake pedal when you need to alert the numbnuts behind you who’s fiddling with his cell phone that if he doesn’t slow down he’s going to bang into you. Of course if he were, you know, looking forward out the window as he drove, he’d notice that he’s gaining on you, but you can’t rely on drivers these days going to that much trouble, so you have to tickle their peripheral vision.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 1
I think that if you’re impatient and always trying to keep close to the car in front of you, it makes it a lot harder. A little patience goes a long way.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:00, STARS: 0
I imagine that your clutch is heavier than mine, too - - mine is heavier than what you see in most Japanese cars, but still nothing compared to what’s usually behind a V8.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 0
Yeah, some cars will definitely be easier than others - a 60's muscle car would probably wear your leg out, but I think you want a car with low end torque and a decent clutch, with feel, but not too heavy.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/15/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 1
Traffic here sucks, but thankfully I don’t commute. If I did, it would take me about an hour on average to get 14 miles. My preference would be to commute in an automatic transmission. I’d drive a manual, and to be honest, I wouldn’t hate it. But still, not my preference for a boring commute in a bumper to bumper slog.
"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012)
11/15/2017 at 15:04, STARS: 1
I have a lead foot so i barely notice it.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:04, STARS: 1
True - - and my commute is a mix of the two, and changes on a daily basis. On days like today (rain), there’s a lot more of the true stop and go — but it leans toward an occasional stop, then crawl for a while, then stop, etc. etc.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 0
Oh, I know, believe me - any time someone is getting too close to me, I’m watching them like a hawk, and making sure they’re paying attention and getting the clue.
In most cases, they’re far enough back that me letting off the gas in 1st a couple of times gets the message through loud and clear- without endangering anyone.
"Jason Spears" (shadestalker)
11/15/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 1
Heavy commute traffic makes me avoid hilly routes, because the people creeping along with automatic transmissions will do it just below the minimum speed of my first gear - so they’re gliding along and I’m doing the stop and go dance up a hill. Really, that’s the worst of it.
That said, if I really hated it, I’d do something else. Next car will probably still be a manual. Even a “well behaved” automatic is still an automatic.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:07, STARS: 1
14 miles in an hour is really bad - good for you that you’re not commuting through that crap!
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 0
Yeah, mine is an E46, and I think a lot of people would consider the clutch to be ‘heavy’, but I don’t.
Hill starts aren’t hard once you learn the take up point- I’ve put over 108k miles on my car, I’m pretty damn familiar with the take up point, so hill starts are a no brainer.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:10, STARS: 0
Compared to trying to accelerate out of a corner, but the transmission can’t make up its mind about what gear it wants, yeah, I’ll take the manual, thanks!
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/15/2017 at 15:13, STARS: 0
Agreed! Although when I was commuting, it was slightly shorter, but still bad traffic, and I was in the FoST, so I guess the manual didn’t bother me too bad.
"Chuckles" (chucklesw37)
11/15/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 1
This is so true. My commute home involves 10 minutes on a bridge where you legitimately come to a stop every 20 or 30 feet. There is no puttering along. The right lane is straight only, and after the bridge the left lane becomes a turn lane, so if you ever leave more than a few feet, someone will dive bomb into the spot in front of you. It’s pretty annoying in a manual. I still commute in my manual Miata when the weather is nice, but as much as I like it, there is nothing rewarding about sitting in traffic with a manual. I’d rather commute in my automatic Fiat and save the Miata for actual fun driving.
"arl" (arl1968)
11/15/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 1
Yea, I daily in DC traffic with a manual, but I have a relatively short commute (40 minutes). There are days when I dream of trading in the GTI for Lexus ES350......
"Tripper" (tripe46)
11/15/2017 at 15:21, STARS: 1
I agree that it’s not too much work in traffic and that goes for all of our stick cars (M3, Forester, Ranger). Even my 70 year old mother has two 3 pedal cars and drives one or the other to work. I could see myself getting bored with a CVT, but when I’m bored in the Audi I just switch the DSG into manual mode.
"interstate366, now In The Industry" (interstate366)
11/15/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 1
I don’t encounter much stop & go traffic due to a short commute entirely within the suburbs, but when I do I don’t have a problem with it. My cars’ clutches are light and shift very well.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:27, STARS: 0
Oof - that Lexus would be a far cry from a GTI beyond just the transmission...
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
11/15/2017 at 15:28, STARS: 3
I do it everyday and agree, I don’t have any major issues with it. The only rub is on up hills when traffic isn’t at least rolling and occasionally I run into some nutball that gets pissed off that I’m not riding the car in front of me close enough for their liking. I figure I may have even prevented a rearender accident or two providing a little more cushion in traffic. One trick I use is to follow a larger truck that is also trying to avoid the “accordion” effect in stop and go traffic.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:33, STARS: 2
The other nice thing about following a truck doing that (they all do), is that no one with half a brain will be cutting in front of *you* - they’ll be trying to cut in front of that truck.
One of my biggest fears is that I’ll just lose focus and roll into the back of someone on the commute in the morning - having the manual keeps me engaged enough that I’m not so worried about it in the BMW.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/15/2017 at 15:37, STARS: 2
I do it every day. It’s fine. I mean it’s harder to smoke a cigarette, drink a big gulp, eat a bacon cheeseburger and give other drivers the finger with a manual transmission, but it’s certainly doable.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 15:55, STARS: 1
The real pisser is trying to text your BFF while you’re doing that
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
11/15/2017 at 16:49, STARS: 0
I’d be happy with a manual transmission for my current commute, its against rush hour and I barely have much traffic to contend with. My last commute, however, was awful with a manual. I’d usually never exceed 40-50km/h, and about 20-25mins of the 30-35min commute was real stop and go. Crawl forward 20 feet. Stop for 30 seconds. Crawl forward 15 feet. Stop for 30 seconds. Crawl forward 30 feet. Stop for 30 seconds. I found myself preferring my automatic Blazer for commuting pretty quickly, and leaving whatever manual thing I had at the time at home.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
11/15/2017 at 17:03, STARS: 1
I drove a stick in traffic for years. Ultimately, it’s just what you do so you do it. I see it as a tradeoff for the pleasure of driving a stick on the open road. Nothing better than getting off the line and hearing that chirp as you grab second.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/15/2017 at 17:08, STARS: 2
Voice-to-text. I’m not a lunatic.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/15/2017 at 17:10, STARS: 2
I do 19 miles in an hour on my way home. It’s enough to make you crazy. I listen to a lot of books on tape. Which of course are really books streamed via Audible though my phone. Books on phone.
"Thriving and Surviving...Barely" (9thgenaccord6spd)
11/15/2017 at 17:12, STARS: 1
It really isn’t that much work. Yeah it is annoying but after you have been driving a manual for a while, you don’t even think about it. My car has a really soft clutch, so chicago stop and go traffic isn’t super terrible. One caveat though - my car is very short geared which is a problem in traffic that keeps slowing down and accelerating, meaning I can’t keep it in first but its still too slow for second. For me, if the stop and go traffic becomes too much, then I just get on Waze and take side streets instead.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
11/15/2017 at 17:16, STARS: 1
Traffic was one of the reasons I got rid of the WRX (secondary to 160,000 miles and all the fluids leaking, but I digress). With the heavier clutch traffic was a workout, and the clutch takeup was so high that it was really difficult to do stop-and-go at all (I think the takeup had the car going 8mph, and of course there was no friction zone to speak of). The moral of that story is don’t put an aftermarket clutch in your daily...or don’t commute in a 400hp tuner car, one of those two.
The Fit is also a manual, but just isn’t a problem at all. I’ve found it’s much more important to be mindful of how I’m reacting to traffic...I’ve been trying to not get annoyed or frustrated at other drivers who are being oblivious.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 17:49, STARS: 0
I’m lucky to have a really good radio station to listen to on my drive - and a better commute (~24 miles/45 minutes, typically).
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 17:52, STARS: 0
Yeah, I’m in the Chicago area, too - but going from the SW burbs to O’Hare, and it’s not as bad as dealing with the Ike or Kennedy.
My car is pretty short geared, too (over 3k RPM at 60 mph), but the upside of that is you can go really slow in 2nd.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 17:53, STARS: 0
I’ve been trying to not get annoyed or frustrated at other drivers who are being oblivious.
This is really my problem - I think the stick helps take my mind away from that a bit, so it lowers my blood pressure a little.
"Sovande" (sovande)
11/15/2017 at 18:38, STARS: 1
My commute in is great. 25-30 minutes (depending on whether or not I stop to get a gourmet Columbian coffee at the 7-11 or not) of hauling ass.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/15/2017 at 19:59, STARS: 0
That’s something to look forward to every day at least!