by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 11/15/2017 at 14:08
by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 11/15/2017 at 14:08
Tags: truck yeah
; Frontier
; Truck ramblings
STARS: 2
The Frontier is 12 years old and is generally regarded as old and outclassed, but its a mistake to write it off just yet. At least in my opinion.
I mean 12 years! That seems like such a long product life today. However, I still think its one of the smarter truck buys on the market and I’ll tell you why.
First - That interior. Oh man that interior.
Its unarguably terrible. Not stab yourself in the eye terrible but certainly in comparison its flat out bad. Im of the opinion, however, that function in a truck should come first and frankly its still an extremely functional interior and honestly having spent a lot of butt time in both this and a Tacoma I would have to rate the frontiers interior as a nicer place to sit for extended periods of time.
Moving away from the obviously dated interior and on the mechanicals:
The 4.0 VQ puts out 261 hp, which is the least peak power of these trucks, BUT it has 288 lbs-ft of torque...the most of the gas V6 trucks, averaged out (power under the curve), the Frontier is actually midpack for the 3 true midsized trucks on the market (Tacoma, Canyorado, Frontier). And its measured 0-60 is still faster than the Tacoma.
It comes with a 5 speed auto (not bad but keep an eye on the intergrated trans cooler) and a 6 speed manual (no joy to row but not terrible).
The mileage is poor as a result, but its not THAT bad.
The 5 speed auto is a little dated against the 6 and 8 speed units and combined with the larger, port injected V6 means you are going to spend $2000 in gas over 5 years compared to the most frugal option right now for Off-Road spec’d trucks. It fairs much more favorably when you look at the manual option.
A little worse in the city a little BETTER on the highway and the same combined. Granted I’ve seen first hand how the frontier does on fuel and its definitly worse than the tacoma to the tune of about 2-3 mpg real world (auto to auto). And if you are off road its especially worse.
Value wise this is where the rubber meats the road.
You can get a fully equipped Frontier Pro-4X 6 speed for about $32,000 after incentives and thats roughly $5000 less than the comparably equipped Toyota, and its the same for the Colorado (auto v auto).
Understand that $5000 difference financed over 5 years is actually closer to $6000 and that $2000 fuel bill difference over 5 years doesn’t seem so bad. Unless you got a manual in which case its a much bigger savings...plus, you know, a manual.
Its got a true selectable rear locker, a Dana 44 rear axle with rear discs, and a fully boxed frame; all pretty great assets in a truck this size off road.
I’ve done lots of off road trips with a SV non-Pro 4X and while it needs more help than my truck or the TRD off road tacoma on really challenging terrain, its never let its owner down and always made it through. Frankly, its made a pretty good case for itself on the trail.
Add to the fact that its really not a bad looking truck, its been proven pretty reliable and durable and
still compares somewhat favorably
against newer trucks performance wise its age starts to look less and less like a liability.
Sure there is a new Navara based frontier coming that will be better in every measurable way...probably...but I am going to miss this when it leaves the market. This is as close to a pure “truck” as exists on the market today in my estimation and I think its badness and age are going to be missed by the “keep it simple” crowd (myself a life long member).
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 14:22, STARS: 0
Good maths, but no place for groceries if you have the kids along.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/15/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 1
I couldn’t get past the dinky rear doors. Literally. I had to change my approach to getting into the back seat so I wouldn’t break my kneecaps on the way in. I’m not even that tall. That made me scratch the Frontier off my list. A good thing, too. My son is now my height and has a longer inseam. He definitely wouldn’t fit!
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/15/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 1
Colorado & Canyon are the only option in this segment with full-time 4wd therefore they win the snowbelt by default.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
But there isn’t in any truck in this class, save the ridgeline which i wouldn’t lump with the Off-Road midsize truck class.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 0
hmm, interesting. I’ve never noticed. I personally like tall dinky doors because they don’t swing out and bang up other cars when kids come flying out of them in the parking lot.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 0
Eh, I guess. The blue SV in the pics above lives happily in the snow belt.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/15/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 0
“I personally like tall dinky doors because they don’t swing out and bang up other cars when kids come flying out of them in the parking lot.”
That’s a good point and it’s one of the main benefits of sliding doors on a minivan. My wife bought an Explorer and my poor little truck suffered.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 0
Our GX has very tall, but short, rear doors and its been a huge blessing.
"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
11/15/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 0
I can’t speak for the Colorado but one huge plus for the Tacoma is lack of depreciation. Frontiers can’t compete with that
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/15/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 0
There this big thing in the back called the “bed”. It’s a great place for groceries!
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
Thats no lie. About the same time my friend bought his SV his older brother bought a Tacoma. He went looking for used Tacoma’s and found that even with 50,000 miles a used Tacoma was only a few grand less than new, so he bought new. He spent a lot more than his younger brother did with lightly used Frontier. I still think the Tacoma he bought (2nd gen) is the better truck but the Frontier is close enough that financially speaking its kinda hard to not recommend at least considering it.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/15/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
I am a well-established hater of part-time 4wd for putzing around town in the snow.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/15/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
The 3/4 rear windows on the doors, too. Well, really 2/3. You can’t sit in that rear seat and perch your arm up there with the window down. Rear egress was one reason for me, too, although I’ve never ridden in the back of my Taco.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:35, STARS: 0
I haven’t driven a non-full time 4wd in a long time so its hard for me to compare, but with his excellent [when not bald and in need of replacement] Hankook AT/M’s he never complained about getting around in the snow. Im stoked to try those tires out on the full time, torsen center GX this winter. Its going to be a tank.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/15/2017 at 14:35, STARS: 0
They win the northeast (at least rural areas) by default because union.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 0
Yeah, the windows thing is annoying, no question.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/15/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 0
I like the Frontier and considered one when I bought the Taco. I’m sure for my needs, either would’ve worked perfectly well. It came down to simple preference, as the ‘15 Taco was equally as “old” as an equivalent Frontier for the most part. Having good history with Toyota, and a spottier reliability history with Nissan is what ultimately tipped the scale.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 0
And the Tacoma historically has been better in that regard.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/15/2017 at 14:45, STARS: 0
Part time gets around in the snow fine. It’s just annoying to have to shift into 2wd to park or otherwise do tight maneuvers. Also I prefer a center diff reacting to the available traction vs. being locked 50/50.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
Totally fair point. I think the Canyorado is the best of these trucks in a lot of ways, especially towing and refinement. Value (for me) and off road (even the Zr2 to a degree) is where I would put the Canyorado 3rd.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
11/15/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
I had a 2007 V6 rwd Frontier for short time. The previous owner put rear locker in it. With it locked it was suprsingly capable off road (& in winter), & made it do really good burn outs. Then it taught me was snap oversteer was.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
It looks like the cab did well in the rollover at least, so thats good.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
11/15/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 0
I had to kick out the passenger side window to get out. The chassis twisted jamming the doors shut. Hitting a tree at 80kph would do that. It hit the ditch then started to flip, in the air mid flip it hit a tree then landed on the roof.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
11/15/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 0
Admittedly I haven’t done any research to back what I’m about to say, nor will I frankly, but I bet the money you save buying the Nissan will go away when you sell it for a much lower price than a Taco with the same age/mileage. Unless you keep it for a very long time. In which case the money you save will go away at the gas pump.
With the current midsize offerings, honestly you’re not going to go wrong. The best course of action is to buy whichever one you like more.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 3
That’s the long and skinny of. The double edge sword of the frontiers depreciation curve is that you can actually shop used, unlike the Tacoma so your cost basis is automatically lower. I mean a gently used pro 4x is going to be so much less than a moderately used Tacoma.
"Svend" (svend)
11/15/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 0
The D40 Nissan Frontier/Navara was okay
but the D23 (2014 - present)
Tekna
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/15/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 0
When I bought my new car, one of the requirements was it had to be comfortable for teenagers. I’m responsible for either pick up or drop off every day. I really wanted a Tacoma. Then I drove one. To me, it was like driving a cave. I felt like I had more headroom in my old B3000.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
11/15/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 2
That’s a good point. The only thing dumber than buying a used Tacoma, is buying a used Wrangler. Same lack of depreciation, without the reliability.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 0
This is, more or less, whats coming to the US in the next few years.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 15:00, STARS: 0
One stupider? Buying a used modified wrangler. all the reliability of the factory plus some guys home made improvements all at some kind of “cool Jeep” markup.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
11/15/2017 at 15:04, STARS: 0
but what about the air or snow i carry around in that box....
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
11/15/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 0
Thankfully, we have the wife’s Jeep to be a people mover. I wanted to make sure my son would be comfy in the back, but he’s only going on 8 right now. By the time he is a teenager, the Taco will be his to drive around and I’ll be lugging around hockey teams in a larger vehicle.
"Svend" (svend)
11/15/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 0
I hope it’s not this one, because this has been out since 2014 and although the new Mercedes X Class is the same vehicle, the Navara/Frontier will be quite dated to us by then.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
11/15/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 0
so just like every other pickup. If only they had a place to put things, like a i don’t know let’s call it a box.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 15:10, STARS: 0
Ideal, particularly in rain and snow.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 0
If you’re carrying snow around in the bed of the truck, then you need to relocate.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 0
No need to be
snarky
.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 0
For us it will for sure be NP300 based. Though thats not a bad thing, the Colorado we have was based on the old colorado out there. They reworked it a ton though. Hopefully nissan does the same.
"Svend" (svend)
11/15/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 0
The Renault Alaskan, Mercedes X Class and Nissan NP300, NP300 Navara/Frontier are essentially the same but I recall they did the stuff to the X Class, I don’t recall what
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/15/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 0
You’ve really thought this through.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 15:18, STARS: 0
Basically classed it up a little. retuning dampers and bushes and such. Nothing major mechanically.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 0
I carefully consider my opinions.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/15/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 0
We have to have two people movers. It’s not that we have enough people to fill two people movers, but the timing of our jobs requires us to share people-moving responsibilities. Mine, at least, is a very sporty mover of people. Hers is boring but has more room for stuff.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
11/15/2017 at 15:22, STARS: 0
just teasing, no harm meant.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
11/15/2017 at 15:27, STARS: 0
no way, snow is a small price to pay for actual freedom, gun control, health care, free schools.
Plus snow is fun. Snowmobiles, ice fishing, sliding, skiing......
that blue dot is me.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 15:32, STARS: 0
Sounds like a well considered opinion and I respect it.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
11/15/2017 at 16:33, STARS: 0
I’d go straight to a Colorado/Canyon Z71 Duramax CCLB.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 16:36, STARS: 0
Tis a nice truck but remember that its nearly 10 grand more than a loaded frontier so it had better be.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
11/15/2017 at 16:41, STARS: 0
I know, but I think Frontier’s are awful and hideous throughout, so I’d much rather spend the extra money on something that would be a pleasant place to sit in and to drive when not offroading. I don’t like paying so much for something so ancient.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 16:51, STARS: 0
Thats fine, for me a dated interior isn’t a deal breaker. From a perspective of performance they just aren’t THAT far behind the new trucks for me to justify the price difference. I can get a 6,000 mile pro 4x for under 30k all day long and for that kind of money...I can take a little sacrifice.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/15/2017 at 17:10, STARS: 0
No offense taken. No worries.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
11/15/2017 at 17:54, STARS: 0
Actually they’ve widened the X Class track by 70mm. And there’s extra reinforcing in the chassis. The body too has been widened by 50 mm.
The new Navara is quite a decent thing but it doesn’t have the refinement of the Amarok or Ranger. Plus it’s not a Toyota or as cheap as a Mitsubishi.
As a result here in Oz it’s stuck in No Mans Land...
"nermal" (nermal)
11/15/2017 at 17:55, STARS: 1
These also have sufficient aftermarket support. The $10k that you save over a loaded up Toyota will buy enough parts to give you vastly superior off-road ability. In addition, you won’t have the funky seating position, and you will have rear disc brakes.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 17:59, STARS: 0
interdasting. I suspect we would get an X-class sized version. Typically our midsized trucks are quite a big larger than the Utes you’re used to.
i.e. a double cab hilux is about 150mm less in wheelbase than a double cab tacoma and about 75 mm narrower.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 18:02, STARS: 1
Yup. Some stuff isn’t easy to get but there is still a decent amount of support out there for the important stuff.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
11/15/2017 at 18:04, STARS: 0
True. Also worth bearing in mind that our Navara’s now have independent coils in the back over the solid axle. No more leaf springs.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 18:07, STARS: 0
Yes, I expect the new Frontier will keep that feature. I think this and a small diesel engine from cummins (possibly) will be the big selling points. Frankly I think Nissan should ditch the Diesel option and focus on turbo petrol. I think having V6 power with an I4 and having coils in the back would be the differentiator to get people in the showrooms and out the door.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
11/15/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 0
Given Nissan just dropped all petrol engines from our Navara...this is fairly amusing to me.
Hopefully, the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance will put some R&D back into petrol engines for mid size pickups to improve efficiency and torque up to the diesel levels. Same goes for most of the manufacturers actually because very few of our Asian utes come with any form of petrol power. Only base 2wd Hilux and Triton I think.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 1
Whats funny is that diesel here takes SOOOOO much more money and effort to put into a vehicle here than petrol. A diesel in a small truck here is a big deal. Frankly Nissan is already behind the ball on the frontier given that a Diesel F150 is coming, there is a diesel Colorado, there is a possible diesel Ranger and a diesel Jeep pickup. Bad timing. Thats why I think a 280 hp turbo 4 would be a great choice between the rest.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
11/15/2017 at 20:22, STARS: 0
Yep the diesel alternative is more expensive here too ($5,000 premium in the LC200 GXL!) but punters rarely pick the petrol option.
Even the Prado no longer comes with a petrol engine...
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 20:45, STARS: 0
Well to be fair what was the prado petrol the 2.7l 4? Or the 4.o v6?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/15/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 0
5000 aud isn’t even bad, that’s what it cost to get the 2.8 diesel in the Colorado. If you want a v8 diesel anything is going to be about 2 to 3 times that here. Example, the 6.4 diesel upgrade in the f250 is 11500 aud
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
11/15/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 0
The V6. It only accounted for 1.2% of all Prado sales in Oz apparently.
Hilux also just dropped the V6 as it scored only 0.5% sales. They have kept the 2.7 for a couple of the 2wd versions.
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
11/15/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 0
Yikes! In some car species the premium can be as little as $500 but a couple of grand is more common.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
11/16/2017 at 04:45, STARS: 0
i’d rather the D23 over the D40
but then i’d rather a Ford Ranger over anything else.
3.2L manual
"Pistol Whipped Cream" (heynickhere)
11/16/2017 at 13:53, STARS: 0
I rented one on Oahu in August. I figured it would be nice to throw our wet/sandy stuff in the bed while we explored. This was my first time driving one and I was pleasantly surprised over the 4 days that we had it. Would definitely rent again.
"ThePlasticOne - no diggities expressed nor implied." (theplasticone)
11/20/2017 at 19:23, STARS: 0
Nissan truck apologist here. Yes, a thousand times yes.
Also, let me pose this idea which I’ve had for while: the D40 Frontier (2005-present) is the last true American midsize pickup. Because despite being sold internationally and with a Japanese nameplate, its roots are in another pickup made purely for the USDM for MY2004: the Titan. They share so much, you can plug the entire Titan drivetrain (sans prop shafts) and front suspension without modification. The VK56 V8 fits in the engine bay and bolts right up, because the Frontier and Titan share frame rail architecture, and the transfer case and front diff swap just as easily. Everything in front of the bed is direct-fit replaceable. The only thing in the way of the rear axle swapping in is the wider distance between leaf spring perches, which is easy to correct (same diff, by the way). We in the fanclub call this Titan Swapping, which also applies to the Xterra and Pathfinder of equivalent years. The Frontier is undeniably based on the All-American Titan.
The Tacoma cannot claim this, because its chassis architecture is shared with the 4Runner, FJ Cruiser (an international vehicle), and Lexus GX, which besides being sold in other countries
also
appears as the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado. Much of it is designed locally but the underpinnings are not. Let me also throw out there that the GX/Prado has remained largely the same since 2002, speaking of long-in-the-tooth Japanese trucky things.
The Canyorado cannot claim this. That platform was developed on the other side of the International Date Line long ago. And if the scuttlebutt is true and we’re getting a variant of the T6 Ranger, same deal applies.
The Honda Ridgeline...uh, shut up...isn’t a true truck! So it can’t claim this! Whew.
Another great reason to buy the Frontier, since it has been around long enough to buy a ticket to The Last Jedi (2018 model is already on the books), is that parts are quite easy to find and will be for some time, not to mention compatibility (at least theoretical) with overseas Navara components. You can drive it almost anywhere and be able to fix it.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/20/2017 at 21:27, STARS: 0
“The Tacoma cannot claim this, because its chassis architecture is shared with the 4Runner, FJ Cruiser (an international vehicle), and Lexus GX, which besides being sold in other countries also appears as the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado.”
I’m going to let you finish but...
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-tacoma-and-the-4runner-a-tale-of-2-trucks-1791138676
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
11/20/2017 at 21:40, STARS: 0
Cool info about the d40. I haven’t heard much info on people doing this so I will have to take your word for it but it makes some sense
"ThePlasticOne - no diggities expressed nor implied." (theplasticone)
11/22/2017 at 16:06, STARS: 0
*Fry eye squint*
Fine, but the Frontier has the superior torque curve.