by "davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
Published 11/14/2017 at 15:49
by "davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
Published 11/14/2017 at 15:49
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STARS: 1
“Last week, Bob Lutz—former vice chairman and head of product development at GM, veteran of Ford, Chrysler, BMW & Opel, father of the Dodge Viper, and the automotive world’s most honest man—published a flamethrowing op-ed targeted titled “ Kiss The Good Times Goodbye .” It echoes all the arguments of the Kool-Aid drinking mobility “experts” and everyone in Silicon Valley betting fortunes on the end of human driving as we know it. And not just human driving. Dealerships. Car magazines. Brands. If you believe Lutz, everything we know, love, or hate is utterly doomed by the arrival of self-driving cars.
Is Lutz right?
I’ve been saying the same thing as Lutz since 2015, with one crucial difference. I think it’s all over in 50-70 years. Lutz? Twenty.
That’s a big difference. If this had come from some idiot on LinkedIn whose bio said “Change Agent” or “Radical Disruptor,” I’d answer with customary wrath. But this is Bob Lutz, who delivers insight even when he misses the target. Also, the Dodge Viper wouldn’t exist without him. He’s a true car guy, and has nothing to gain by repeating the self-driving agenda. His argument deserves real analysis.
Let’s dissect this line-by-line.”
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"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/14/2017 at 15:50, STARS: 0
http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/16001/is-the-entire-car-industry-really-doomed
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
11/14/2017 at 15:55, STARS: 0
There’s no reason to fear change, it’s the nature of progress.
I only dislike the consolidation of profits to fewer companies and their leaders.
"Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs" (yowen)
11/14/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 2
I wonder. When we see movies set in the future, they certainly seem to think things are headed this way. Cars, especially of the combustion variety become a rarity and perhaps even a luxury item.
I personally like to think that hybrids, electric cars and other alternatively propelled vehicles are what we need to keep enthusiast cars viable. Or at least keep them viable for a longer amount of time, by prolonging the day the day we run out of dino-juice. I hope before that day comes though, that we develop a synthetic alternative (that doesn’t require field after field of corn).
So I am hopeful I suppose, hopeful we’ll find a way to preserve the more interesting aspects of ICE motoring. If that takes me having to commute in a self driving ride share vehicle of some sort, that’s fine by me. As long as I can take a ‘68 Mustang Convertible to the lake on the weekend (or some other enthusiast vehicle I have yet to own, and if enthusiast vehicle to you means an ‘03 Camry, that’s fine by me). Or so my motorcycle loving friends can ride their motorcycle after a hard day at work.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/14/2017 at 16:14, STARS: 0
Yeah, I’m definitely a personal freedom guy, so my only fear is that this activity we love so much might be taken away by our government at some point...
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/14/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 0
Gotta think there are plenty of new, small companies benefiting from all this change as well (perhaps as they’re being swallowed up by the big fish)...
"Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs" (yowen)
11/14/2017 at 16:22, STARS: 1
Yeah, or our ICE motoring could be taken away by exorbitant costs. I hope it doesn’t become all elitist, like golf or polo (on horses).
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
11/14/2017 at 16:54, STARS: 2
I’ll be dead by that time, so I might as well get a sports car now.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
11/14/2017 at 16:55, STARS: 1
I kind of have to agree with Alex Roy. If the US government gave a shit about safety they would be cracking down on motorcycles and we’d have strict drivers ed and traffic law enforcement. And they’re not, so I doubt they’ll do the same for non autonomous cars. Apart from maybe large cities like NY and LA, but again that’s not a federal thing.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/14/2017 at 16:58, STARS: 1
Please do.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
11/14/2017 at 17:11, STARS: 1
The thing about dystopians is they sell soundbites. Reality is rarely polar. Will autonomous cars or electric cars mean fewer traditonal rumbling V8s on our roads? Of course. But why is that a problem? A good chunk of people with those cars neither need nor enjoy them, so I just consider this whole thing an “automotive rightsizing” more than anything.
To me, the dystopian stuff is more like saying “Oh, they invented an artifical heart! Artificial humans are next!”
"John Norris (AngryDrifter)" (angrydrifter)
11/14/2017 at 21:37, STARS: 1
If it’s better it’ll come sooner. If it’s not, it won’t.
When cell phones proliferated in the 90's it looked like everyone would get one eventually. But that was before they got you into the internet and became way better than they were in the 90's. If they hadn’t improved so much and so fast they certainly wouldn’t have become as ubiquitous as they have.
The predecessor to the computer cloud was suppose to eliminate PC’s 20 years ago. See “thin client” or “Net PC”. It wasn’t better. At least not yet. So it hasn’t dominated the market yet.
If I can have a warm car on a cold morning RIGHT NOW at my doorstep that will reliably get me to work, and I can get a cool car on a hot evening RIGHT NOW as I walk out of work, and it works out even if I change my mind at the last second and delay, and it will reliably get me home, then I can see foregoing my own car for the commute. If I can’t get something better than what I have now I shall resist. And so shall my people.
If it’s not better it won’t happen. If it is better, then, well, so what? We’ll just call uber or lyft to tow our race cars to the track.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
11/15/2017 at 04:53, STARS: 1
they will have to pry the keys to my car from my cold dead hands.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
11/15/2017 at 05:12, STARS: 0
I personally like to think that hybrids, electric cars and other alternatively propelled vehicles are what we need to keep enthusiast cars viable.
That’s great and all, but once new vehicles have progressed to full autonomy it’s over for us. Well, we can still like older cars but new cars will be out. How do you differentiate between two automated cars? One might be larger, more practical, have a better design, have more gadgets or have a nicer interior, sure. But there won’t be any meaningful differentiation in handling, performance, ‘feel’, sound, you name it. There will be objective differences but no real subjective differences, so no more niche for the car guy/girl as we know them. At Oppositelock we don’t tend to discuss the objectively best cars, we tend to discuss how whatever car makes us feel .
There will be cheap self driving cars and status symbol self driving cars. Different self driving cars will have their own enthusiasts, just like smartphones have enthusiasts, but it’ll be utterly different from car enthusiasm as we currently know it.
"StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8" (stndibnz1)
11/15/2017 at 08:24, STARS: 1
Anyone else read his horrible piece on DeMuro and his Model3 review? Was such a rambling incoherent bitch fest it was actually painful to read. Really can’t stand Alex most times.
"Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs" (yowen)
11/15/2017 at 08:28, STARS: 0
I’d agree that for everyday purposes the appliance of it all would take over. There’d just be varying degrees of luxury. But any enthusiast aspect of it would be lost.
However, I hope cars as a hobby, as a sport as a racing series. They’ll continue to exist. I hope it’d still be within reach to keep an enthusiast car in the garage. Maybe you’ll no longer be allowed on highways, but you can still go and enjoy the back roads, race courses and car meets on the weekends.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/15/2017 at 08:48, STARS: 1
I started reading that, and then stopped.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/15/2017 at 08:52, STARS: 0
Yup!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/15/2017 at 08:53, STARS: 0
This is a solid take.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
11/15/2017 at 08:58, STARS: 0
Haha - well, they are... =)
Ubiquitous autonomy will be great as long as they don’t take away the right to drive from those of us that love to.