by "OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
Published 11/04/2017 at 12:43
by "OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
Published 11/04/2017 at 12:43
No Tags
STARS: 0
Instead of buying a WRX or STI, I could lease one. Less down, almost same payment, and I could either keep it after 3 years or give it up and I think I would be into it about the same.
Someone do the math for me so I can really understand. I’m an accountant but I don’t do numbers.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/04/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 0
I would do it. But I think you need to go price out what you want on their website so you can plug in if you have a trade or how much down you have.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
11/04/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 0
Don’t they have good resale? I’d buy I think
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 1
My rational behind part of it is the new WRX/STI comes out in 2020. 3 years from now.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 0
Yeah we ended up putting 5% instead of 3.5% down on the house which scrapped a good chunk of what was going to be my car money. I don’t want to be paying $500 plus $75 insurance a month on a Subaru
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
11/04/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 4
Someone do the math for me so I can really understand. I’m an accountant but I don’t do numbers.
wot m8?
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/04/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
Oh yea definitely. If anything though would a used one be an option?
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/04/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
Oh yea definitely. If anything though would a used one be an option?
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
11/04/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
Leases don’t work for me because I put 15,000 or 16,000 miles on in a year, plus I prefer not to be exposed to the condition assessment at the end of lease. If these aren’t a factor for you, then they numbers could work.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 0
I do internal controls. Basically I work to keep Enron and Worldcom from happening again.
"WRXforScience" (WRXforScience)
11/04/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 4
The big reason not to is that the Subbies hold their value so well that you usually work out better buying and selling. It is not uncommon for a WRX to lose less than $10k in depreciation over the first 3 years of ownership.
If you get a good deal (anything under MSRP) and qualify for a low interest rate (under 3%), you’re going to be better off buying than leasing. A quick internet search for 3-5 year old STI’s in my region came up with a median price of over $25k and a low of $21k.
Personally, I have trouble recommending the STI since it still has the ancient EJ motor (I also had to replace an EJ in my 2010 WRX, so I’m not a huge fan). The WRX is a better all around car and will be a much better commuter car. Neither are really great for the track (they have heat issues) and both are fun at autox.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
11/04/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
Yeah I didn’t think about that. This might be the gen they step up their game from older tech so current gen prices may drop.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 1
I’ll still have the LS400 and the wife’s RX350 for road trips where I put most of my miles on cars. I drove the LS 14,000 miles this past year.
"Maxima Speed" (maximaspeed)
11/04/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 2
^what he said^
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
I’d like the creature comforts the ‘18 have. Also I feel like so many of these WRXs just get beat.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
11/04/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 3
Watch out for the over-mileage penalties. A lot of the new leases restrict you to 12k miles per year. For me, that’s not nearly enough miles. Be sure to account for your annual mileage and the penalty for going over in your calculations.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
11/04/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 0
But don’t you have to know numbers for that?
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 13:08, STARS: 0
i can’t think of in my daily jobs when I actually have to do math except this audit program I’ve been working on.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/04/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 3
Lease payments are determined by this formula .
At the end of the lease, you either return the car, or you buy it for the residual value determined when you first leased the car.
Often, car manufacturers will subsidize leases by applying a capital cost reduction and/or lower money factor. But generally you don’t see these numbers unless you try really hard to get them out of the dealer finance person.
I’ve leased one car for myself, and done it twice for my wife.
When I did my BMW 135is, what I didn’t realize at the time was BMW fluffs up the residual values very high to make the payments lower, so the purchase price at the end of the lease ends up being higher than if you wanted to just buy an equivalent used car. Also it makes it harder to get out of the car sooner because if the trade-in value is upside down relative to the payoff amount on the lease (which is higher than the residual) you have to pay out of pocket to make up the difference. I ended up just returning it at the end of the lease.
Usually with boring regular cars is where you have better luck. In these cases, the manufacturer tends to not rely as much on artificially inflated residual values to lower the payments. So you get the low payments but can still get out of the car.
I learned from that experience, and helped my wife lease first a 2013 Civic and now a 2016 Impreza. When she got the Civic, she had a 2008 Sentra that had a small remaining loan on it. It was worth enough at trade to more than cover all the lease initiation costs, and she got a check for like $1300 from the dealer.
We decided to get out of that car a little early, because we wanted an Impreza, but the new 2017 Impreza wasn’t going to be out by the time the Civic lease was up. We could’ve extended the lease a few months to keep a car until the 2017 Impreza arrived but it turned out that the trade value on her Civic was higher than the lease payoff amount. So instead we got a super good deal on a fully loaded 2016 Impreza and even had a little equity to put towards the lease initiation costs.
Her Civic was I want to say something like $180/month and her Impreza (which was a $27k sticker price vs. maybe $17k for her base model Civic before it) is $290/month. Both of these cars were leased with some kind of special lease deal from the manufacturer.
Before we decided on the Impreza, we also looked at the HR-V and with the same $27k sticker price the lease payment was going to be like another $100/month higher because this was right when the HR-V came out and Honda didn’t have any incentives on it.
So for my wife, who drives well under 10k miles a year, doing these leases has been perfect. We’re never going to have a big repair bill because it’s just scheduled maintenance on an in-warranty car. The OE tires on the Impreza were crap in the snow so I bought a set of better all-season tires for $400 and sold the OE ones for like $175 so net cost was no big deal. Other than that it’s basically just gas and oil changes, we never get high enough miles to need any kind of expensive scheduled maintenance like a water pump or something.
My wife likes her Impreza a lot, so we may well end up buying it at the end of the lease, but really we’re going to see what kind of lease deals are out there and whether it makes sense to roll to another lease or buy the Impreza.
Long story long, without the incentives, I wouldn’t try to lease an STI. Your payments won’t be
that
low, and at the end of the lease you either have to get another car and have no equity whatsoever, or you have to buy the STI and you’re paying for it all over again. The residual value might end up lower than the real trade value but I dunno, I’d just buy the thing or not mess with it at all. Either it fits your budget or not.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/04/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 1
Corporate finance guy here. I did similar math when I leased my GS 350 a few years ago, and it came out that leasing the car, then buying out at the end, would cost me an extra 3-5k. I did it anyways for reasons.
But I would need real numbers to run your scenario- depends on residual, annual mileage, and local tax laws among other things.
"Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition" (realasabass)
11/04/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 2
Or it could be the last of the “real” STI’s that use the EJ.
"LJ909" (lj909)
11/04/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 1
Yea they do. Any of the JDM cars used you have to be careful with because they have gotten so cheap in some cases some punk can drive them.
"theloudmouth" (theloudmouth)
11/04/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 7
Worst car possible to lease. Unless things have changed the residuals are so unbelievably high that they depreciate 5-7K over 30K miles when you’d be paying 12K for a lease or more. If you run the numbers there’s no better car to buy for actual cost of payments considering sell price after 3 years.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 13:30, STARS: 1
The payments fit my budget but the down payment to get the payment I want(can afford more but don’t want to pay more) is gonna take forever to get.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 0
How much do you think the price will fall with the new model in 2020?
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
11/04/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 1
If you don’t like the car, it will be inconvenient to break the lease.
If you like the car too much, you can’t drive it more often due to mileage limits.
"Nibby" (nibby68)
11/04/2017 at 13:53, STARS: 0
my sister went... I forget how many, but at least 10,000 miles over her lease limit and they charged her $1600 for mileage alone
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
11/04/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 0
Very good stuff from Atlas///M.
One thing I would add is that these days, if you shop around a bit, some dealers will given you the details on money factor, cap cost reduction, etc, and some won’t. But if you can get one or two to provide the data, you can back into the others and compare. You may have to work a bit to get the details though.
"You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much" (youcantellafinn)
11/04/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 0
Not much. I just traded in a 2007 STi and prices on them are crazy. Used they are listing from $17-21k for not beat examples. There is a huge gap with STi’s where they are either in the high teens or under $10k because they are trashed. I got something around $16k just trading it in.
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
11/04/2017 at 14:25, STARS: 0
Before giving the STI any more thought, I would call your insurance agent a call right away to see what the premiums are. Obviously everyone’s situation is different, but I’ve hard they can be really pricey to insure, which you need to factor into your payments.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
11/04/2017 at 14:37, STARS: 1
No offense, but leasing instead of buying just to get a lower down payment is a terrible idea, especially if you want to keep the car long term.
Let’s look at a regular WRX since Subaru is running some incentives on it.
Subaru is running a $315/month for 36 months and 36k miles lease, $1500 down. That’s based on MSRP of $27,855 and residual of $16,156. That’s for a base 6MT 2018 WRX, payment goes up a little bit if you want options. Your total lease payments including down payment are $12,850.
So let’s say at the end of the lease you want to buy it, you finance that $16,156 for 3% for 48 months and pay the taxes and whatnot out of pocket. Ballparking taxes at 5%, that’s another $808 in taxes, and $367/month payment. Total money spent on the after-lease buying is $17,616.
Total money spent overall is $30,466 over 7 years.
Subaru is also running 2.9% financing for up to 63 months. If you finance all $27,855 for those terms you’re at $477/month for a total of $30,051 plus $1392 up front in taxes (assuming 5%). Total monty spent over 63 months, a.k.a. 5.25 years, is $31,443.
Which means that compared to leasing then buying, you’re spending more money and you have to finish paying it sooner. Essentially, the lease deal on the WRX is good enough that it actually saves you money in the long term. Plus you have the ability after 3 years to totally walk away from the car with no cost to you, vs. having to sell/trade it if you bought it outright and who knows how the resale/trade value will shake out vs. what you owe on a loan.
Now, the STI, there are no incentives on it . You don’t have to finance with Subaru, and depending on your credit you might be able to do like, a 72 month loan at a pretty good interest rate. If you compare buying the STI on that loan vs. leasing it with no incentives then buying it, without the cut-rate lease payments, you’re probably going to spend a bunch more money over time than if you just bought the thing in the first place.
"AM3R, lost another burner" (am3r17)
11/04/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 0
Don’t lease an STI, definitely buy. They hold value way too well. And I doubt the new model in 2020 will effect value too much. Previous gens still command a premium.
Also, STI>WRX. Go big! You mentioned you still have the LS for trips, so the comfort factor doesn’t really matter (I’m sure it’s not that bad anyway).
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
I’ll be commuting with the STI/WRX so I need a little bit of comfort.
"AM3R, lost another burner" (am3r17)
11/04/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 1
It won’t be as bad as everyone says. My friend has a new STI on a good set of coilovers, barely lower than stock, and the ride is totally fine around the DC area.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
11/04/2017 at 15:00, STARS: 0
Leasing is fine if you have no intention of purchasing, and you drive low enough miles to make it work. Otherwise, if you think you might buy it out, just start off with a purchase.
I personally hate leasing, you are just renting the car and have no asset when you finish the lease. At least a purchase, if done smartly, can leave you with an asset you can sell or trade after the payments have stopped. Sure you don’t get as low a payment for the same vehicle, but there are other options.
"Khalbali" (khalbali2)
11/04/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 0
Everybody seems to be saying not to lease because of the residual being so low but I would disagree. My boss leased one and his residual was only lile 20 some grand, which equates to higher payments it’s true. But if you’re ok with that, and it seems like you are, than that lower residual means more equity and then at the end of the lease you either finance the remaining 20 whatever grand, or you trade it in on your next car and that’s the payoff amount, so you get a big chunk back. Or you can sell it and pocket the cash difference. It all comes down to your specific numbers but I would argue it’s a great car to lease (at least the sti, a normal wrx might not hold value so well) specifically because the residual is so much lower than the probable value of the car at the end of the lease, again assuming you’re ok with the higher payments in the meantime. With any lease, you want to compare the residual value to actual lease return prices. Look at 3yo STi’s in your area and compare that to the residual and you’ll have an idea.
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
11/04/2017 at 16:30, STARS: 1
The normal WRX is a great compromise - better ride, better mileage, much less expensive and 9/10ths of the funsies. And if you get it in a less bright color is isn’t even that much of a ticket/wanker magnet. Unless you want to track day it or monkey with the motor - then no question, go STI.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
11/04/2017 at 18:31, STARS: 0
I def want WR blue but as far as upgrades go on the WRX I want an exhaust, blowoff valve(because fun noises) and just a minor tune to make it go pop more.
"Zed28M6" (zed28m6)
11/09/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
Except a for a Wrangler