by "ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
Published 10/19/2017 at 00:59
by "ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
Published 10/19/2017 at 00:59
No Tags
STARS: 2
Tires, of the less sticky variety
I got to thinking recently about picking up another set of Azenis 615k+ to put on the old 14"CRX rollers. Seeing as Discount Direct has a $100 off on $400 or more coupon on ebay this week, they just relieved me of $333 (shipped to my door, with sales tax) that I wasn’t really planning on spending at the moment.
While they will never be used at a race weekend for anything short of a biblical rain event, they are handy in that they open the option of running the car at open track/lapping days if I want to. This is especially nice since there is no longer an SCCA race at the track nearest to me, so I can at least play informally at the local track. Race rubber is too expensive and short lived for me to run anything less than real race weekends on.
I’ve always liked Falken Azenis for testing and lapping tires. They’re nice and predictable, and they last forever. I’m convinced that they never actually cord, they just eventually turn rock hard with enough heat cycles. The current set of rollers were something I actually tried to kill after they got way too old and hard at the last session of the last informal winter series Spec Miata “race” the car ran. Lap after lap of lighting up the front tires on ridiculously excessive mid-corner throttle application and standing on the brake pedal with all four locked up into the high speed braking zone into turn one, and all they did was get more and more flat spotted. I tried to cord them and couldn’t. They’re now too dry rotted to even think about driving at speed on, although they would probably make for a good impression of skid plate racing at this point.
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
10/19/2017 at 01:08, STARS: 2
Yeah, one of my tires in that same compound cost more than $300 soooo...
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
10/19/2017 at 01:19, STARS: 0
One of the reasons why I have no desire to actually play race car in a big HP, fendered car. Race rubber at $400+ a tire that very well may last less than a race weekend is not compatible with my budget. I can foresee in a few years picking up an (original) Formula Mazda or Spec Racer Ford to play with.
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
10/19/2017 at 01:32, STARS: 0
I got a full summer of track days out of them, probably about 20 days total. I’m pretty happy with that. I’m going to put another set on next year, but I’m going to get another set of wheels and slicks for the track.
"Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief" (flynorcal)
10/19/2017 at 01:39, STARS: 1
I’m finally getting to the tire upgrade part of getting the C4 a bit less slow. I was thinking Falken. I didn’t click your link until after heading to the Falken site to get your opinion of what I was thinking of getting and... Well, what you just bought.
I saw Azenis and thought it was a brand I’d not heard of.
So equal parts Doh and Yay.
"Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief" (flynorcal)
10/19/2017 at 01:40, STARS: 1
Unrelated: the bias spring for the rear brakes showed up today. I think you were the one to clue me in on that. Thanks!
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
10/19/2017 at 07:48, STARS: 1
I’m not normally a petty person, but anytime small tire people “complain” about tire price I get super salty.
$333 for a SET?! I hate you so much. My competition tires are $323 EACH. Before shipping!
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
10/19/2017 at 08:28, STARS: 1
I run the 615k+ for AutoX on my TA (it and the Toyo Proxes are my only choices for a 200TW 275/R17). I love them, and they were relatively cheap too. I’m not gonna get 2 seasons out of them though, but that’s because heavy car + heavy foot = tire wear.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
10/19/2017 at 10:13, STARS: 0
Well, these aren’t competition tires. Falken Azenis 615+ are just messing around at a track day tires and rollers for me. Race rubber is much more expensive and short lived. Those run about $732/set (before shipping mounting), and they last not more than one race weekend (with care taken not to overheat them too much and rotating off the the predominately outside front tire after every session, otherwise they might not last one day). I fondly remember my autocrossing days when a set of r-compound tires might last a season with two drivers and only a second new set picked up for nationals or a national tour event. That is unless I let me friend co-drive, then tires lasted not nearly as long. He had a habit flat spot tires down the cords by standing on the brake pedal in an ill-advised manner.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
10/19/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 1
I should clarify, competition for me = autocross. 200TW tires in Mustang size are at least $300 a pop. I don’t know what I’d do if I was regularly tracking the car. Probably get a cheaper car lol
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
10/19/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 2
Get a cheaper car=the way to think about it for playing on the track. While lapping/track days can be slightly different, there are two things that quickly become clear when actually racing:
1. What particular car you’re racing is critically linked to much you’re spending, but not necessarily related to how much fun you’re having. Having folks to race with competitively in the run group is far more important to how much fun you’re having than what you happen to be driving.
2. Any car that sets wheels on the race track should be disposable. Sure, there are lots of variables you can control, but sooner or later you’re going to crash, and you will break things mechanically. Sometimes things completely beyond your control can wad up your car, so anything you’re racing should be something you can wad up into a ball of scrap metal and potentially walk away from without getting a penny out of.
Tires are probably the biggest recurring expense for roadracing, and one of the reasons you choose your car wisely (and I would never build another FWD race car). Guys playing in the T1/STO/GT classes with big boy cars like C5Z06s are running big $400+/tire r-compound tires that often last less than weekend. Some of those guys run though 2 sets of $1500+ tires for the weekend to race with a 400hp car that weighs 3000+lbs with the driver. I spend $700/set for tires to race a 13ohp car that weighs 2200lbs with the driver, and I get a full weekend out of set of tires. However, spec miata guys run a car with about the same HP and weight as mine, and we run about the same lap times, but they often get 3 or 4 weekends out of the same $700 set of tires by virtue of not having only two tires really doing all the work.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
10/19/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 0
A buddy of mine who time attacks his STI is a big fan of the K+’s. Of course on a 3000 lb, 300whp AWD car with a driver who likes to power slide they don’t last more than 3 events though.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
10/19/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 0
I’m actually curious about the K+’s. The set these are replacing are actually the original Falken Azenis RT 215. I’ve driven the 615K’s on track in other cars, but I’ve never driven the new compound.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
10/19/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 1
They would be my pick for track day use. There are probably better things out there, but there certainly are not cheaper things out there for that use. I think you’ll like them. They’ll feel marvelous the first couple of sessions, but after a couple of heat cycles they never get quite as sticky again (which I’m told is pretty much true of most tires in this class). Thereafter they’ll just feel good. They are subject to getting greasy if overheated (especially at full tread depth), so not over driving the car will be rewarded over the course of a session.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
10/19/2017 at 12:23, STARS: 0
Nice. Got any plans for the front brakes?
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
10/19/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 1
The pluses are stickier than the regular K’s by a noticeable amount
"Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief" (flynorcal)
10/22/2017 at 13:47, STARS: 0
I wish slowing the car down was an actual problem. It’s a momentum car, as you know.
I’m gonna leave the fronts stock. I’ve got quite a lot of understeer and I’m not sure if it’s only the tires — I’ve got mismatched tires which is what was on it when purchased. So I’m going to get those Falkens and maybe add a little downforce with some dive planes although I think that’ll be more cosmetic than actually useful. Whatever. It’ll look obnoxious which means it’ll match the rest of the car perfectly.
I’ve noticed the engine has begun to misfire a little here and there. I’m hoping it’s not the “optispark” as just the name of that device alone lets me know how annoying it’ll be to fix/replace. Naturally rather than troubleshoot it now I’m going to drive it until the problem becomes a little more evident. Trying to find it now would be impossible.
Next track day is Nov 17th at Laguna Seca. I have exactly zero days off between now and then. I’m starting to turn into one of those guys who shows up at the track ready to turn wrenches instead of drive. I never understood those folks. Yet here I am.