by "K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
Published 10/17/2017 at 17:16
by "K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
Published 10/17/2017 at 17:16
Tags: Bad News
STARS: 1
I don’t need to be an engine tech to tell you that this isn’t good. I got the car back from the dealer today because problem solving was going nowhere.
Here’s what happened. I dropped it off yesterday afternoon when we signed the paperwork for my mum’s new Explorer, and I took it back today when we took delivery of the Explorer.
My mod friendly service adviser tried to help me as best he could, but the engine tech was adamant to take it back to as stock as possible, and he wanted the active grille shutters put back in before he’d look further into the issue. He hadn’t even looked at it any more than I did! I’d removed those shutters when I installed my GT grille after the intercooler installation last year, held onto them until this summer and threw them out while cleaning out the garage.
Because somehow this part has something to do with, and will make my burning coolant problem go away is what I’m understanding (logic), I wasn’t gonna go buy a $300 part to be installed just to see if it would fix the problem that I know damn well is internal at this point. So I took the car home and topped off the coolant, again... I checked the oil via dipstick abd it looked clearer than before but no milkshake. I check the back of the oil cap and am greeted by oil/coolant snot you see above.
If that’s not enough proof that something is wrong, then I don’t know. I guess my car blowing up would be definitive proof. I’m going back to the dealer, finding another dealer willing to work with me on this (hopefully), or an independent mechanic who can handle this. In a perfect world I’d do this myself...Heck, I even started looking for instructions on how to remove the head on this car.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
10/17/2017 at 17:20, STARS: 10
That crap in the cap isn’t proof of anything other than cooler temps and short drives.
Find a more mod friendly dealer or call ford customer service directly about the issue.
"R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet" (r-saldana)
10/17/2017 at 17:21, STARS: 2
Why don’t you flush the old oil out and put in something thicker to see what it pulls out? Also, you ought to be able to get a set of AGs on a forum for cheapo
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/17/2017 at 17:26, STARS: 0
I’ve checked forums for a used one. No one sells them used because everyone knows they’re primarily for fuel economy and throws them out to put in bigger front mounted intercoolers. I can try and play catch with anyone who’s removed theirs for that reason but I’m on very borrowed time. I’ve looked for wrecked cars locally and cannot find one.
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/17/2017 at 17:27, STARS: 0
That was after a 25 minute drive....
I’m doing both those things ASAP.
"cmill189 - sans Volvo" (cmill189)
10/17/2017 at 17:30, STARS: 4
Never throw away original parts to a car you currently own. It kinda sounds like the tech may have wanted you to return the car to stock so they could possibly bill it as a warranty repair...
"Biggus Dickus (RevsBro)" (NKlein)
10/17/2017 at 17:31, STARS: 0
TLDR (too lazy in this case) - Milky oil. aka coolant in the oil is a tell tale sign of a head gasket issue? Aren’t you covered under warranty or is it the aftermarket intercooler you are worried a out?
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
10/17/2017 at 17:34, STARS: 10
Not having the shutters has nothing to do with what happened to the car, but has EVERYTHING to do with Ford denying a warranty claim.
Manufacturers are more and more likely to ask for pictures of the car, any modifications, and problem areas to be sent it for approval on larger repair/replacement jobs.
If ONE THING is out of whack, be it a missing component, a modification, or even a lack of oil change receipts and they can change a warranty covered repair into a full on out of pocket expense for the owner, or even having the car’s VIN flagged in the system so NO dealer will be allowed to do warranty work on it.
That’s obviously worst-case scenario, but I just wanted to let you know what the dealer and you may be facing.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
10/17/2017 at 17:35, STARS: 9
This.
In this case anything having to do with the cooling system that’s modified may work against you.
IMO the tech saying “go back to stock” may be his way of trying to help you avoid warranty issues.
"R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet" (r-saldana)
10/17/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 0
Will the ST AGS fit?
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/17/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 1
I doubt any modification I’ve done could’ve caused this so I have no reason to believe this shouldn’t be covered by warranty. The snot on the oil cap and the low coolant levels should’ve been the giveaway that there might be a head gasket problem. It is to me at least.
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/17/2017 at 17:40, STARS: 0
That’s a fair perspective. I’m hoping for the best case scenario even if it’s rough. Anything but the worst-case would be idea. Unfortunately I’ve got everything from receipts to papers and not that part.
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/17/2017 at 17:41, STARS: 0
It’s a different part visually and alphanumerically.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
10/17/2017 at 17:45, STARS: 0
The problem with ‘sporty’ cars that are likely to be modified, the OEMs are getting more and more leery of them BEING modified. If it was a Camry they’d probably OK a head gasket repair no problem, just based off the technician’s diagnosis.
A Mustang, Camaro, Challenger? They might even send a local representative down to inspect the car before any work is done. Hell, I’ve seen them OK a tach to tear down a motor, only to find a bigger issue that flagged the system to require pictures, receipts, etc... and then deny the claim and even the tear down.
So the customer is stuck with a torn apart vehicle, and has to either A. Pay to get it put back together or B. pay the shop to tear it down and tow it out.
"Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ" (doge-supreme)
10/17/2017 at 17:48, STARS: 1
Or at least keep the old stuff until the warranty is up. Definitely sounds like they want to bill this as warranty work though.
"vicali" (vicali)
10/17/2017 at 17:49, STARS: 0
Common on vehicles where the oil filler tube is a plastic piece bolted to the block, cold weather+short drives means condensation gathers on the inside and makes the sludge on the cap;
"Wacko" (wacko--)
10/17/2017 at 17:59, STARS: 0
To be fair the only modification a Camry driver does is the sweet Camry dent.
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/17/2017 at 18:16, STARS: 0
What’s defined as a short drive?
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
10/17/2017 at 18:25, STARS: 0
There’s a warranty law that says in order to deny a warranty claim over a modified part, a manufacturer must show that the modified part had a likely role in the failure.
If you have a modified suspension, they can’t say, “oh, this messed up your head gasket,” but in theory, someone looking to deny a warranty claim could say something like the increased boost pressure from your tune caused higher cylinder temperatures which increases stress on the head gasket which makes it more likely to fail.
Active grille shutters, if they aren’t there, you’re seeing more cooling air, so logically they wouldn’t cause higher temps, but on the other hand, “modified cooling system” could be a catch-all reason for denial.
"vicali" (vicali)
10/17/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 0
Home to work is 7km or 4.5 miles - it takes me around 10 minutes to get there, twice a day. Temps usually don’t get all the way up before I get there.
In the winter when it’s -15c /5F it will get sludgy if I don’t go anywhere else and give it a chance to get warm and burn off the moisture.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
10/17/2017 at 18:32, STARS: 0
I had the same thought as takuro, that it may be more about you getting the repair approved than it fixing anything. Obviously, there are no guarantees but if the $300 makes your $2000(?) repair more likely to be covered, it might be worth it.
"haveacarortwoorthree2" (haveacarortwoorthree2)
10/17/2017 at 19:27, STARS: 0
This.
That’s one reason why I went ahead and bought an RS3 Mustang instead of buying a GT and then adding to it. With the RS3, I had the original Ford warranty plus the Roush warranty. Now that the warranties have expired, I still have a 575hp car that I can upgrade if I choose.
"R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet" (r-saldana)
10/17/2017 at 19:41, STARS: 0
Sorry fam all right then I’ll just wish you luck
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
10/17/2017 at 19:45, STARS: 0
The Moss Magnuson(?) act states they can’t deny a warranty claim due to mods unless THEY can prove the mods caused the problems. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer/dealer, not you.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
10/17/2017 at 19:52, STARS: 0
I’d tend to agree with you, except for the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Dealers/Manuf can only deny a claim if they can prove that a mod caused the problem. The Act is there to prevent them from going, “you lowered your car so we won’t cover the oil consumption.”
If all they have are deleting the active shutters they’d lose in court due to the Act, without a doubt. But if there are other mechanical mods... Well, then he’s screwed.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
10/17/2017 at 20:19, STARS: 0
That tech isn’t avoiding looking for proof, he’s telling you to put the car back to stock to cover your ass if it needs extensive repair (a new headgasket) and you want to have any chance of it being covered by the warranty.
In all likelihood, that tech knows perfectly well that it may need a headgasket so he’s throwing you a bone. Return it to stock, bring it back.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
10/17/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 0
During the winter the 4Runner’s oil cap looks like that, it’s just moisture.
Also, again Ecoboosts just tend to burn/evap coolant, just checked mine:
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
10/17/2017 at 20:42, STARS: 1
The active shutters are specifically part of the cooling system, which would allow for denial of claim.
"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
10/17/2017 at 20:44, STARS: 1
He has a bit of other mods including a tune.. so he’s screwed
"Wagon Guy drives a Boostang" (gimmeboost)
10/17/2017 at 21:51, STARS: 0
Mine hasn’t lost any coolant.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
10/17/2017 at 21:59, STARS: 0
Unless he blocked off the cooling channels the only detrimental thing from getting rid of them is increased drag at speed. The shutters are designed to reduce drag, and open when the cooling system demands more air.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
10/17/2017 at 22:01, STARS: 0
Oh shit, yeah, he’s screwed, which sucks. But that’s the risks of tuning your car. That’s why I still haven’t tuned my TDI, I don’t want to lose the warranty or the warranty extension on the high-pressure fuel pump.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
10/17/2017 at 22:20, STARS: 0
They also reduce cold operation time for the engine. Its not going to blow a headgasket, but it is considered part of the cooling system, and is going to provide them with cause for refusing the claim.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
10/17/2017 at 22:37, STARS: 1
I agree, but I think it would be a stretch, and personally, I’d argue the shit out of it and I think any Ford rep who has half a brain wouldn’t risk a Lemon law hearing thingy over the vents.
But it comes down to how well the customer can argue, their technical ingenuity, and their legal skills.
But, having said that, and argued over this vent, K-Roll is screwed because he tuned the engine. I’m kind of surprised Ford doesn’t have a trigger in the computer to automatically black list the car. I know VAG does, but, it only happens during software updates. And when they detect it, the VIN gets sent to Germany and any powertrain warranty will always get denied. VAG doesn’t screw around with that.
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/18/2017 at 00:10, STARS: 0
Fair enough. The oil on the dipstick still looks like oil, maybe I’m just going paranoid?
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/18/2017 at 00:13, STARS: 0
Strangely enough, the dipstick still reads the oil as clean. It’s close to my oil change time, and if I did it now, I could see if there’s any milkshake at all. If there isn’t any, then the mystery continues or I’m frantic over nothing.
"Biggus Dickus (RevsBro)" (NKlein)
10/18/2017 at 09:52, STARS: 0
I’d do an oil change. Cheap way to figure it out.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
10/18/2017 at 10:21, STARS: 0
I’m not sold on the head gasket yet. Moisture buildup in the crankcase is normal to varying degrees. You need a cooling system pressure test, a combustion leak tester for the cooling system (sometimes called a head gasket tester), and maybe an inspection of the cylinders with a bore-scope.
The other side of the active shutter argument is that they keep heat in the engine bay and can reduce heat cycling. I’m not saying the removal of them caused whatever issue you have, just supporting others who’ve said you might need them to get a claim approved.
Modern engines have lots of little nooks and crannies for coolant to pool up and dry before getting to an easily visible location or dripping onto the ground.
Here’s hoping it’s something easy and they cover it.
"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
10/18/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 0
Honestly I’m starting to think I might’ve panicked for nothing, but I’m still unsure. I’ve been driving like a granny and staying out of boost since Friday, and I haven’t been able to reproduce the sweet “maple syrup” smell or rough idle on any cold starts after any amount of driving. The exhaust smells like exhaust and the amount of vapor coming from the tips is normal for cold weather I can’t wrap my head around how something like that could just come and go.
I’m getting my oil changed to see if anything comes out of the oil and for a little peace of mind. Maybe I’ll do a coolant flush as well, as one of the times I topped off the expansion tank was when the engine was hot and I’d normally wait for it to cool down.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
10/18/2017 at 11:09, STARS: 0
If you get yours maintained by the dealer, they top it off. It’s not all of them though, but according to my friend who is a dealer tech, it’s fairly common.
"Wagon Guy drives a Boostang" (gimmeboost)
10/20/2017 at 21:21, STARS: 0
I do take it to the dealer for maintenance, but with the big clear football up there I know it’s never been low when I’ve taken it in.