by "CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
Published 10/17/2017 at 11:20
by "CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
Published 10/17/2017 at 11:20
Tags: Project: Wanda
; Austin Healey
; Sprite
STARS: 6
So my ‘69 Sprite came with a 1275cc inline 4 cylinder good for 65 hp and 72 lb-ft. Not very sporting, but fun enough for the time. That gave it a top speed of 95 mph and a 0-60 in 11.9 seconds.
Now my engine is in pieces and honestly 7 years of project neglect and 3 moves I am afraid I have probably lost parts etc. Besides that I have been thinking of engine swaps that would fit the vehicle along the same toy car lines, but add pep and such without going crazy and my dream swap may be the reality I take to this vehicle. I want a F20C motor and accompanying transmission. For those of you not up to your engine codes, that is the engine and trans out of an S2000.
Throw on a custom plug cover and most people would never know
Plus the age would allow me to throw away all the smog goodies. I think this would be the best swap for a car that weights 1574 lbs.
That would mean a 2004 cc engine producing 237 hp and 153 lb-ft. Or power to weight ratio (horsepower:pounds)= 0.15057179161372
In a car this cute that power would make it much more usable in daily traffic and then I could take my time building a period correct race motor.
Update: Add ITBs and Longtubes
Repost for morning crowd
What do you all think?
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
10/16/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 3
I say yes.
"Berang" (berang)
10/16/2017 at 18:19, STARS: 0
The solution is always rotary.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:22, STARS: 0
Wrong, I want reliability and inline 4 fun (since a straight 6 Jag won’t fit)
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:22, STARS: 0
Right?!
"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike)
10/16/2017 at 18:25, STARS: 1
You could even go for a pedestrian engine from something a little more basic and RWD and still have a lot of fun.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
10/16/2017 at 18:27, STARS: 3
I kinda wonder if the chassis, etc. is up to that screamer, but the concept is freaking awesome. The only complaint I’ve ever heard about the motor is the lack of low end torque, but if you’re pulling around 1,600 lb, who gives a shit about the torque?
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 0
But that isn’t a pedestrian car and I am not one for going small.
"Kiltedpadre" (kiltedpadre)
10/16/2017 at 18:29, STARS: 2
I think it sounds like a great idea. There are multiple engineless MGs dirt cheap in my area, and I keep thinking of doing something like this. Then I remember I barely have time to maintain my current cars let alone build anything.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
10/16/2017 at 18:32, STARS: 3
I am not one for going small
Says the guy with a Sprite.
"for Michigan" (formichigan)
10/16/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 0
What about an MX-5 1.8L engine? I bet it’s cheaper and easier to source than an F20C. It only makes 143 HP, but that’s plenty to have a good time in a 2400 lb MX-5 and should be an absolute riot with 800 lbs less car to push around.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
10/16/2017 at 18:35, STARS: 0
https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#ecoboost
You’re welcome.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:43, STARS: 1
I would probably have to stiffen it a little bit, but the only real issue I would foresee is the rear end holding up to the power. But if it goes, then I guess that just means build up.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:44, STARS: 0
I would rather slit my own wrists than have a Ford motor in my car especially an Ecoboost.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:44, STARS: 1
That is my backup idea if I can’t fund the F20C
"f86sabre" (f86sabre)
10/16/2017 at 18:44, STARS: 5
My thoughts. It could be awesome, but you will need to swap out just about everything aside from the body. Trans, rear end, suspension, and most importantly brakes!
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:45, STARS: 1
Says the guy with the 6.0 GTO and a Sprite
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 4
Heretic!! Always buy projects you have no time to build!
"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike)
10/16/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 0
I know the S2000 isn’t pedestrian, I just meant that I thought S2000 engines commanded a very hefty price...? S2000s always seem to themselves...?
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
10/16/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 0
ITS STILL A SPRITE THO
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:54, STARS: 1
Naw, some bracing and a rear end. Front disks and rear drums will be fine
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:55, STARS: 0
Yes, but “big” engine swap for the car.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 18:56, STARS: 2
No I meant the Sprite isn’t pedestrian. Thus I don’t want a pedestrian motor in it. Though the backup is a Miata 1.8
"f86sabre" (f86sabre)
10/16/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 0
If you are packing that kind of power you need to be able to stop it.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 19:00, STARS: 3
That was a little bit of sarcasm.
"f86sabre" (f86sabre)
10/16/2017 at 19:20, STARS: 3
Ha! You never know around here.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
10/16/2017 at 19:47, STARS: 1
Yeah, it seems unlikely that the rear end would hold up if it’s stock.
I love the idea of this - it would make wonderful noises that would be very unexpected from an old Brit.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 1
Right? Especially with a tune, ITBs, and no cat.
"Berang" (berang)
10/16/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 0
Air-cooled Porsche motor then.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 20:01, STARS: 1
True. I would definitely want it able to handle the canyons, which would mean bracing, suspension, brakes, and cooling.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 20:01, STARS: 0
It isn’t a boat (insert money pit joke here)
"S65" (granthp)
10/16/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 1
Turn it into a stripped out motorcycle engined hot rod. That’d be so damn cool lol
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/16/2017 at 20:10, STARS: 2
No, I want the interior to be nice. It is going to cruise just as well as it will tear up the canyons. I have nice bucket seats, a roll bar, carpet, etc.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
10/16/2017 at 22:20, STARS: 1
8000 RPM wail. Yeah.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
10/17/2017 at 11:35, STARS: 1
why not Miata engine and Trans.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
10/17/2017 at 11:37, STARS: 1
I think a Miata 1.8 motor would be good enough, and a lot cheaper. It’s still double he power, and a car that’s what 6-700lb lighter than an NA Miata? But an F20c would be scary fast in that little car.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
10/17/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 1
The engine/transmission on the pallet: Can you install that one more or less as-is? And 237 HP? And do you have the dough to cover it?
That’s not even a no-brainer. That’s a lookup.
Just beef up the rear end so it locks and handles 3 or 4 times the HP it was initially supposed to handle. Then drive the wheels off it.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
10/17/2017 at 11:40, STARS: 0
True, that.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
10/17/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 0
As someone who has been working on a hot-rodded teeny Brit car for ages, I say do it!
F20C might be a little big from what I saw. Not sure on what specific dimensions the Sprite bay is tight but I know they’re relatively big engines. I’ve seen one fitted to a Spit but it required a fair amount of chassis hackery (think the guy literally chopped the chassis behind the suspension towers and welded in an extra 6").
I’m thinking there’s some solid options in the OG Mini engine-swap crowd, given that sort of proves swaps can be done in the space given for an A-Series. Think the common options are D-Series and K-Series Honda engines so you’d still get your VTEC goodness ;) any lack of power compared to an F20C could be swiftly remedied with added supercharger whine ;)
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
10/17/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 0
That’s what I was thinking too. Miata engines are plentiful. While not as excited as an S2K engine, it’d still be a lot of fun!
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 0
It has the ecu and everything. Some fab would need to be done. THe funds are not there atm and I am not near needing the engine in the car yet, so these are just thoughts at this point.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 1
A Miata swap is kind of the back up plan.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
That is the back up plan
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
10/17/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 1
You will need wider tires for better traction, I would think.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
10/17/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 1
that or even a Ford Ranger or Chevy S10 based, If we go the pickup route you can also look at some toyotas, and nissans too.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 12:09, STARS: 0
Hmmm.
Got some measurements last night. I was balanced 4 levels high in a pallet racking system with a tape measure so these may be +- 1 inch.
Engine:
Height 25"
length 20"
width 20" wide across inlet manifold. Need to allow 2-3 inches for headers
width 14" wide across bellhousing
Gearbox is 32" long and needs approx 14" wide tunnel for the first 1/3 of the box. After that 10" narrowing down to 8" wide is enough.
With the water pump and alternator in place the engine width is a pretty consistent 20" over most of its height.
Hope this helps. As I found out, the F20C isn’t a small motor when you are used to cast iron blocked 1600's
Then the 1275 I can’t find dimensions on, but yeah I guess that is a bigger motor than I thought.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 1
I already have that actually. I have BMW style 53 wheels and adapters so that is 15 by 6.5 wide compared to 13 by 4.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
10/17/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 0
Oh, well then get to work!
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 13:56, STARS: 1
Lol, I am trying to
"MKVJunkle" (mkvjunkle)
10/17/2017 at 19:10, STARS: 1
I recently bought a 74 midget and have done some reading on this very subject. If I’m not mistaken, the F20 is too tall to fit under the hood of a Spridget. The Miata drivetrain has been done before and definitely requires some cutting of the passenger footwell area(I’m pretty sure that’s the right area) and just barely squeezes under the hood. Also someone mentioned other Honda motors but I think any other Honda motor is out because they spin the wrong direction.
Definitely interested in what direction you choose to go.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/17/2017 at 19:18, STARS: 0
hmm, well thank you for the input. I wonder if a dry sump would help lower the motor. Or no hood ;)
"MKVJunkle" (mkvjunkle)
10/17/2017 at 22:23, STARS: 1
I think you would be stuck with the no hood option. It seems that hood height and transmission size are the limiting factors. The tunnel is tiny so most any engine/transmission upgrade requires fairly extensive metal work. If I could find one I’d swap a Suzuki swift gti motor in. 16V DOHC 1.3 with a 5spd that fits. 75% more power with little cutting. I’ve heard that if you’re easy on it, the rear end is at its limit at around 90-100hp without spending money to upgrade it. Probably easier and cheaper in the end to narrow something.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
10/18/2017 at 08:47, STARS: 1
Yeah it’s definitely bigger, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t fit. Just need to make sure you measure your engine bay first ;) people have stuck Rover V8s in Midgets before (with a Sierra Cossie AWD system!) so there’s more space than just the A-Series :)
If an F20 won’t fit then did you guys get the Honda K-Series engine over there? I know there’s kits to put them into minis so they must be pretty small (and up to 200bhp stock will be mental in your Midget) :)
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/18/2017 at 10:49, STARS: 0
God how expensive must a Sierra Cosworth AWD system be now? Plus all the work you would have to do must be ridiculous.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
10/18/2017 at 10:53, STARS: 1
I know! Must look up the build thread on that thing. Looked pretty mental :)
I think it was from the Sapphire Cosworth 4-door so a little less desirable than the 2-door Cosworths, but wtill not exactly cheap...
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/18/2017 at 11:12, STARS: 0
I couldn’t find a build thread. I found an article on one, but he used a Sierra XR4x4 as a donor. Whatever that is.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
10/18/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 1
Aaah that makes more sense. Same AWD system, but no Cosworth engine. Just a mildly upspec Sierra with an AWD system so much more affordable :)
Why are you getting ideas? If I can help facilitate some project car madness I’ll be happy to do so ;)
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/18/2017 at 11:55, STARS: 0
No that is too much work to do to that car. I just want more power without paying $3000 for the pull through supercharger. That is 6 times what I paid for the car for not enough power.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
10/18/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 0
Good plan. I assume you want to drive it sometime in the next 4 years ;)
I’d definitely look into D-Series VTEC engines. They’re proven to fit in A-Series-sized spaces, cheap and plentiful, and make 130bhp stock. Not massive, but twice what you’re making now. Dead simple to work on too, and they definitely have tuning potential :)
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
10/18/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 0
I will probably just rebuild the 1275 and put it back in. Probably do some power mods to it if I can, but that is because mom is letting me work on it back in the garage and she wants it done in a year. I want it done soon too because it has been 8 since I bought the thing, but college and work left her in a storage unit.
So yeah. I wonder if they make a hot cam. Or if a bigger Healey 6 would fit without much work..... Hnnnggg.
I want a Big Healey so badly. Preferably a 100-6 BN6 rally replica
Not with body matched wheels though
Also
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