by "Dogapult" (dogapult)
Published 10/12/2017 at 02:13
by "Dogapult" (dogapult)
Published 10/12/2017 at 02:13
Tags: New car rants
STARS: 2
I love old cars. I want it to be known that I love old cars. The feel, the smell, the idea that if this car could talk it would have lots of stories. But I believe, wholeheartedly, that we’re in the best time for cars. Never has a car been cheaper, better equipped, or at the very least, better looking. Sure, some may argue that cars like the Juke, the new Cherokee, the new Civic, are butt-ugly. I don’t mind them. I think we’re getting to the point where they’re at least making the cars interesting.
I’d rather see Jukes and Civics on the road than say, the bubble Taurus. They’re not making the designs as safe as they once were. The average car is getting to be something you could actually talk about, as opposed to just 16ft of “car.” You know what’s a really gorgeous new car? the Toyota Camry. and I never thought I’d utter those words. But holy shizuoka , the new Camry is a great looking car. I’m not a fan of all the little nanny things that really modern cars have, but it’s incredible that we’ve made them. If I recall, something like the new Fusion has a sensor that detects if it’s hitting a pothole and doesn’t let the suspension collapse all the way? That’s crazy. We talk about the smooth ride of old cars but modern stuff irons out the bumps in ways that we couldn’t have even fathomed.
Do I think we need nanny stuff all around at all times? no. but my uncle was asking me about a car to get for his daughter when she turns 18, and he asked me about a few cars and said he had to make sure he was getting her something safe. and I thought about it. You can’t buy an unsafe “nearly new” car anymore. He was looking at stuff in the mid 2000s . I mean sure, the U-body didn’t do very well in crash tests, but in his mind, he was thinking of Pintos and Gremlins and later on CRXs and stuff. We don’t have that level of unsafe anymore. He asked me about reliability, and I thought again. We don’t accept cars as unreliable as they once were. I’m sure there’s a ton of cars people can quote at me to deter this thought, but so long as you’re getting something that’s had the bare minimum level of maintenance, 250k miles is pretty normal!
Sure, cars aren’t as light as they once were, but they’re not as heavy as they once were, either. And the actual weight figure matters less and less with the march of technology. Modern cars making tons and tons of tons of horsemeat and returning good mileage. My 1992 Volvo 240 wagon gets 27-30mpg highway, and is honestly, a buzzbox at 70mph and not that comfortable there. My 2006 G35 Coupe, with nearly triple the tons of horsemeat, (and about the same weight, let’s be honest), gets about the same mileage. You don’t have to worry about buying a Monday car or a Friday car anymore. I mean, plants still make mistakes, but nowadays the car you get at the dealer will have its panel gaps all lined up in ways no one really gave a shit about before. Older Mercedes might have, but that’s about it. We’ve got the ability to make cars better and better, and we do! A great uncle of mine has said that the best car he ever owned was his 1951 Hudson Hornet...Until he bought his 1992 Lexus LS400. and that’s an old car these days! Hell, in the G35 I can set the temperature to 70 degrees and no matter what the weather is outside, that car will do its damndest to keep me there! And that car is 11 minutes old! and nowadays, it’s like $5000 if I want a decent one.
New cars are better in every single objective way. Do they look better? well, that’s up to you. Do they handle better? yes. Are they more comfortable? Honestly, yes. That road trip of yore needed to be broken up by bathroom breaks and gas stations so that mom and dad could stretch their legs, get off the bench seat for a moment. Nowadays? I’ve done 500 miles in the G35 without stopping, and I got out in a good mood. Even in the Volvo that gets a little old after a while, now, it has kinda probably 200k+ on it, so the seats are worn, but my point stands. Are they more powerful? Hell yeah! Today’s Honda Odyssey and Toyota Camry and a few other cars we think of as boring griefboxes can do the things that muscle cars of the 70s and supercars of the 80s can and more, without requiring expensive maintenance and specialized stuff. Cars are harder to work on? Not really? packaging makes them annoying for sure, but the tools have just changed. You can plug into a car and get an idea of what’s wrong without having to dig in beforehand.
For the record, the G35 sits on the wayside and I drive the stick shift Volvo wagon every day. Am I sad that the era of the V12, of the really light everyday cars, of the rotary, is gone? Sure. but the cars don’t cease to exist. Doesn’t the GT350 rev over 8000? That’s more than your RX-7 was originally supposed to. We don’t have that V12 smoothness, because we just don’t need it anymore. Modern technology has made some of that obsolete. Not *bad*, not still *LOVED*, but just obsolete.
I just think of all the times that someone has said “they don’t make em like this anymore.” and I think: “Good.” Cars aren’t like they once were. They’re better. Better in every conceivable way. Do I love my older cars? of course. But I love their flaws, too. Not nearly as much compromise required today. Want a truck that can basically tow my house, rides like a car, and gets 20+MPG? you got it. Want a family sedan with over 700 hp and a full factory warranty, with heated seats and cruise control? You got that, too.
In the end, this is a nearly disjointed rant that was sparked seeing some of the responses to “which automotive golden age are we living in?” QOTD. I’m sure there’s more I could have put in, but it got very long very quickly. It’s the first time I’ve had the urge to write in a while, (the package from China actually came months and months ago, I just never submitted it) and I felt I needed to do so.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
10/12/2017 at 02:55, STARS: 10
Are new cars objectively “better” than old cars? Yes. However, I have a 2013 BMW, a ‘66 GMC and a ‘73 Honda motorcycle sitting in my stable. Will the BMW still be on the road in fifty years? Not a fucking chance.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
10/12/2017 at 03:03, STARS: 3
I guess if you like crossovers and other vehicles that sell to masses based on their supposed effectiveness on terrain absolutely none of the buyers ever drive on...sure this is the golden age. If you like 12 airbags and annoying seatbelt chimes and tablets glued onto your dashboard, sure this is a good time. If you like having 300+ hp that feels just as fast behind the wheel as an 80s 4 cylinder, sure.
There’s a few gems in there but mass market cars nowadays aren’t any better than 20 years ago except they’re boring to drive. All the progress of technology that we’ve made has been undone with the crossover. The same 4 cylinder compact cars of 20 years ago which only got 30 mpg now get 40. But instead of buying those, most people buy a lifted up, body cladded version of that car with worse everything and drop their mpg back to 30...there goes all our progress.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
10/12/2017 at 07:56, STARS: 0
You need to remember those mass market cars allow the automakers to make the truely fun cars too. Hell even Porsche went to making an SUV to buoy their sales, but look at the other cars it’s allowed them to produce. And then there’s the hellcat power train. That this powertrain even exists in a relatively mass market set of cars is pretty cool. Sure there is a bunch of boring out there, but there always was and will be, but you need to look at the outlier cars and compare those of today, to those of the past.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
10/12/2017 at 08:02, STARS: 2
This is true. But I’d venture to guess that if you put the GMC and the Honda into everyday driving service like the BMW is likely doing for you, then those wouldn’t be on the road in fifty more years either.
True the older cars will last longer now, but that’s mainly because they are relegated to part time driving duty and they just won’t see the number of miles that the more modern daily drivers will. But your point stands, eventually that BMW is going to break something very expensive and be sent off to the salvage yard. But I’d imagine it’ll have 250k miles on the odometer by then.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
10/12/2017 at 08:25, STARS: 1
And the irony is that automakers still have the capability to build cars with as much character as many of the old ones had. The 500 Abarth and the 86 twins were both made to be more about experience than numbers. And as a result, nobody buys them. Enthusiasts can complain about modern cars all they want, but they keep on proving unable to put their money where their mouth is.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
10/12/2017 at 08:30, STARS: 0
If you had a Honda CB500X in your garage and felt compelled to keep it maintained, it could last fifty years without too much trouble. Even with EFI bikes don’t have that much in the way of electronics.
As for the BMW, it’ll have the exact same fate as a BMW 2002 from 50 years ago: either some enthusiast will want to save it, or it will be crushed, like most 2002s were. I honestly believe that the durability of cars today and cars 50 years ago aren’t that far apart. And just like enthusiast cars from 50 years ago, someone will find a way to get around parts availability. CANBUS is a protocol people can learn, and is a lot less arcane than some of the tuning tricks people use on, say, old British roadsters.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
10/12/2017 at 10:22, STARS: 1
We talk about the smooth ride of old cars but modern stuff irons out the bumps in ways that we couldn’t have even fathomed.
Haven’t ridden in one yet, but I really doubt a new Fusion could completely eliminate the bumps like the land yachts of old, for one reason: People don’t want that kind of isolation from the road anymore.
Cars are harder to work on? Not really? packaging makes them annoying
for sure, but the tools have just changed. You can plug into a car and
get an idea of what’s wrong without having to dig in beforehand.
Cars are absolutely harder to work on. Took me 2 hours to change a cam sensor in a Nissan Pathfinder, and replacing an alternator on a modern FWD car often requires the suspension to be partially disassembled and a CV axle removed. Sure, they require less maintenance than they used to, but it’s not hard to change the plugs every 10k miles in something like this:
Hell, in the G35 I can set the temperature to 70 degrees and no matter
what the weather is outside, that car will do its damndest to keep me
there!
Automatic climate control isn’t exactly a new thing. It was available on the Thunderbird in 1990, and I’m pretty sure Ford wasn’t the first to install it. (had to look it up, the first automatic system was on a Cadillac in 1964, and it sounds nearly as capable as systems today).
My 1992 Volvo 240 wagon gets 27-30mpg highway, and is honestly, a
buzzbox at 70mph and not that comfortable there. My 2006 G35 Coupe, with
nearly triple the tons of horsemeat, (and about the same weight, let’s
be honest), gets about the same mileage.
Don’t forget, you’re comparing two very different vehicles there. The Volvo 240 was a solidly built but focused more on utility and safety. The G35 is a luxury sports coupe, more comparable with something like a ‘92 Thunderbird (which would have cost roughly the same after factoring inflation), which would have no problem getting up to 75 or being comfortable staying there for long periods. I used to choose my ‘88 Thunderbird over the ‘07 Volvo V50 for long drives because it was the more comfortable option on the highway.
I just think of all the times that someone has said “they don’t make em
like this anymore.” and I think: “Good.” Cars aren’t like they once
were. They’re better. Better in every conceivable way.
But they’re not better in every conceivable way. Old cars are easier to work on, easier to modify, cheaper to own, can gather more attention from other car people, can be more rewarding to drive, and sometimes, it seems that newer cars weren’t built to last as long. (Sure, they can go 200k miles with minimal maintenance, but plastic parts start to fail in the engine bay after about 10 years).
And you seriously think the new Camry looks good? It looks exactly the same as the previous version with a goofier grill. Either way, it will be forgotten about in a few years once they flood the roads (just like the Fusion that has the aston martin grill! Looks great! Now it’s just “15 feet of car”.)
New cars are better in every measurable way, but that doesn’t mean they’re inherently better than every old car. That kind of thinking is why my mom parked her ‘67 Fairlane 289 2 door in the trees to replace it with a ‘73 Gremlin. She has grown to regret that decision...
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
10/12/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 0
I’ve driven an FRS, It was a fun car, but it absolutely does not have as much character as an older car.
I’d take a far less capable and slower Foxbody Mustang anyday.
Though I would consider one of the 86 twins (I have to occasionally carry kids and let my wife borrow the car), but it’s completely impractical for hauling anything more than 2 people. The new Mustang has the same problem. A foxbody isn’t any larger inside, but it’s far less cramped.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/13/2017 at 05:29, STARS: 0
Compare and contrast with this Oppopost:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/question-oppo-after-which-year-have-you-given-up-on-ca-1794734325
In all honesty, I fall somewhere between the two extremes. New cars are certainly faster, safer and more technologically developed than ever before. But then there’s the planned obsolescence which prevents you from working on them, the lack of affordable enthusiast-oriented cars on sale and the badly-thought-out design trends which are commonplace nowadays.
This all makes me think we’re not living in an automotive golden age - but cars of today are definitely much less hassle than before. I think we reached peak mechanical car in the mid-late 80s though, since that’s when the most advancements were made without sacrificing the car’s character (also rustproofing was much better than before and the German and Japanese cars of the era were basically bulletproof, making this time a car design peak in some ways).
But sure, onwards to the future, I’m all for it - just give me a turbo Saab please.