by "Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
Published 10/03/2017 at 17:12
by "Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
Published 10/03/2017 at 17:12
No Tags
STARS: 0
If you’ve got any experience with any of the below, I’d love to hear it! Suggestions for similar cars that aren’t on the list are welcome as well.
Requirements:
< € 20k
Somewhat reliable
More practical than my MR2 (i.e. just about anything)
Preferably a coupe
Should be capable to withstand occasional winter driving (rust)
If it’s younger than 25, the engine shouldn’t be any bigger than 2l.
Current front runners:
Porsche 944 S2/Turbo
FC RX-7 Turbo II
MkIII Supra Turbo
Audi S2 Coupe
Other cars I’m considering: FB RX-7, early Mitsubishi 3000GT, early Z32 Nissan 300ZX TT, BMW 635 CSi.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
10/03/2017 at 17:22, STARS: 1
I like many of the cars on your list but I don’t think any of them qualify as “somewhat reliable.” If anything, the Supra is the most reliable if you got the 1JZ-GTE motor in your market, and not the 7M-GTE that we got here in the US.
The S2 would obviously be the best in winter but yeesh, maintaining it might be difficult.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
10/03/2017 at 17:23, STARS: 0
Wait you’re getting rid of your MR2?
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
10/03/2017 at 17:28, STARS: 1
GTI.
Next question.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/03/2017 at 17:30, STARS: 0
Probably yeah, I want to try something else, and I don’t have the space for two cars.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/03/2017 at 17:32, STARS: 1
Reliable meaning “if I keep up with (preventive) maintenance, it shouldn’t leave me stranded”. I know they’re not Corollas. ;)
7M-GTE as well over here. Do they have that many issues, save for the headgasket?
"promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
10/03/2017 at 17:36, STARS: 1
Toyota GT86?
I wanted all those cars at one point, but my parents wanted “reliable” so that nixed 90% of them with the exception of the Supra Turbo.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/03/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 0
My mom had an Mk7, and while it was a great car, it’s a bit too do-it-all. I’d probably go for a 205 GTi or a Ritmo Abarth 125TC if I had to pick a hot hatch.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
10/03/2017 at 17:38, STARS: 2
And you just answered your own question! Or find a brown, manual, diesel wagon and do us all proud.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
10/03/2017 at 17:39, STARS: 0
Alright I get it. But all these cars are going to be a lot less reliable than a backwards Corolla.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/03/2017 at 17:40, STARS: 0
Barely within budget and (very) high taxes and insurance compared to the old stuff. Should see if I can try one though.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/03/2017 at 17:43, STARS: 0
Haha, believe me, I know. But then again, I don’t need a daily driver, so it should just be able to stay together for one or two 3000km roadtrips a year.
I’ll miss the little bug though.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/03/2017 at 17:46, STARS: 0
I’ll be waiting a couple more years before those M550d wagons become affordable. (Manuals are overrated on diesels *flamesuit on*)
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
10/03/2017 at 17:50, STARS: 0
No flaming here - had a Jetta turbodiesel w/ a 5 speed, and there was a lot of rowing of gears. And does Mazda make a sport version of the 3?
"sony1492" (sony1492)
10/03/2017 at 17:54, STARS: 0
92-00 Toyota Soarer.
I can say that the base model(v8 and without TEMS suspension) would be bulletproof after doing some maintenance.
Structurally Safe for its age.
Aftermarket support.
Not expensive.
Capable of driving in the winter.
I dont have any experience with the straight six versions so I have no comment on their reliability, though I can say mpg’s wouldn’t be any better
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
10/03/2017 at 17:54, STARS: 1
It’s within your 2 liter requirement for <25 year old cars though. It’s also quite ‘practical’, I transported two 2 wooden planks inside it of roughly 2.4x0.6 meters. Inside, with the trunk closed. And a passenger inside as well. The passenger (the owner, you know the one) sitting on top of the folded down rear seat and me with my nose dangerously close to the steering wheel. The wood rested on the dash, a few centimeters away from the windscreen. But it worked.
Just don’t get a blue BRZ with an automatic.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
10/03/2017 at 18:10, STARS: 0
Those can’t really be found here on this side of the pond (with left hand drive). Looking for the Lexus version because of correct hand drive on a huge European wide website* I found only 3, 2 in Germany and 1 in Italy. None of which meeting his limitations of at least 25 years old, or if not max 2L displacement. All three had automatics, the cheapest was a steep €7k and given the availability I’m skeptical about aftermarket/parts availability. If I’m not mistaken they were never offered here to begin with.
* Autoscout. For comparison and using a random example, that website has 3 different 1992-2000 Lexus SC-whatever available and 8097 different 1992-2000 VW Golfs.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
10/03/2017 at 18:29, STARS: 0
All of these cars are old and complicated. Even with preventive maintenance, there’s all kinds of issues that could crop up. Especially in old-school turbo cars with all sorts of random vacuum-actuated crap in the engine bay. Cars this old will probably require a fair amount of reconditioning when you buy them and other issues will present themselves, because of age.
The head gasket is the main issue with the 7M.
My favorites on your list are the 944 Turbo and FC RX-7 Turbo but neither of them is “just do the maintenance and it’ll be fine” level of reliability.
In terms of practicality, I’d rate them, from most to least:
S2
3000GT
Supra
944
635CSi
RX-7
And I suppose I forgot the awd in the 3000GT would be good in winter too. No idea on rust for that one though.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
10/03/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 0
I’d say even a well kept 944 is going to give you fits every now and again. I had a base 944 and my fuel pump relay gave out on a date with my wife. But I’d still be tempted by a 944 s2 or 968 in the future...
"Mid Engine" (jdlogan2006)
10/03/2017 at 18:51, STARS: 1
The mass air flow tends to give up the ghost and you cannot source another anywhere in the world, just aren’t to be found. So you end up with an oversized Lexus MAF and a fuel computer to compensate. Sold it right after the MAF fiasco, if you can’t get parts for a car it’s time to move on.
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
10/03/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 0
Get a late model RX-8 all the issues were sorted out by then so they’re more reliable than any FC or FB.
"MM54" (mm54mk2)
10/03/2017 at 19:08, STARS: 0
That is a very nice selection of cars, but I don’t think any of them really fall into the reliable and winterable categories, though.
"dogisbadob" (dogisbadob)
10/03/2017 at 19:09, STARS: 0
Oh, you’re in Europe, so you get access to some cool cars we never got over here.
2-door Echo/Yaris(Canada got the cool-looking hatch, but we didn’t)
Civic hatchback (Europe got some cool variants that we didn’t get)
There was a funky hatchback 2-door version of the mid-90s Mazda Protege that you may have gotten but we never did (Canada got it as the 323 Neo for 1995 only)
Mercedes A- or B-class
stupid smart car (it’s a 2-door and has the same engine layout as a Porsche 911) :p
Opel Astra H
The BMW shoe car (I think you guys were able to get a Z3 1.9 coupe, but we couldn’t over here)
or an E46 Compact (we only got the E36 version)
I think you guys also got the 6th gen Accord coupe, which was imported from the US.
But if you can afford 20k, and need it for DD purposes, you can get a new car
"sony1492" (sony1492)
10/03/2017 at 19:41, STARS: 0
I didn’t know that it had to be lhd. I guess I assumed soarers were more common than they really are in Europe.
Aftermarket support still stands though because most of the mk4 supra suspension is interchangeable, they share many parts.
"John Norris (AngryDrifter)" (angrydrifter)
10/03/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 1
Two observations.
1. You seem to be destined for expensive repairs / expensive repair parts. Perhaps many of the Supra parts are cheap, but some are not.
2. I’m guessing you like red.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
10/03/2017 at 21:17, STARS: 0
The 944 is fun and semi practical but the timing belt issues are a killer for me. I would go with a z31 Nissan 300zx turbo instead.
"Khalbali" (khalbali2)
10/04/2017 at 00:14, STARS: 0
No experience with any of them but definitely vote the supra! One of the best looking generations IMHO.
"BLCKSTRM" (BLCKSTRM)
10/04/2017 at 01:11, STARS: 0
When did you guys in the UK start getting E36 M3s? That Car Throttle idiot found the crappiest one he could find and then complained about it.
They’re actually quite reliable if maintained -easily best of the bunch you’re considering. And stock would smoke all of them but a decently modified Supra.
The sedan is probably too new and practical, but that’s always an option, too.
Maybe an S52 swapped E30? Can you do that over there?
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:43, STARS: 0
Nah, but there is a (FWD) 323 GTX for sale nearby.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:44, STARS: 0
Yeah, I’m afraid I’ll catch canards.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:47, STARS: 1
Haha, clearly a case of wanting what you don’t get, as most of these things are seen as run-of-the-mill economy cars here. I do like the clownshoe, but I’d want the 2.8, or perhaps just the Z4 Coupe in that case.
Don’t need a DD, so anything goes basically, as long as it doesn’t fall apart due to mechanical or rust issues every 3000 km.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:50, STARS: 0
The looks of the E36 don’t really do it for me. :/ I do like the E46s, but they’re still taxed to hell and back.
Engine swaps are out, sadly. We could theoretically do that on oldtimers (25+ yo), but they’re going to reinstate 5-yearly inspections for them.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:51, STARS: 0
We only got the first ‘gen’ RX-8, and taxes are a killer on those (taxed as a 2.6l). I like them though, and they’re outrageously cheap.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:52, STARS: 0
Yeah, I might have had to clarify that a bit better: reliable as in capable of lasting 3000-5000 km between repairs/maintenance, winterable as in not very susceptible to rust.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 03:58, STARS: 0
As duurtlang said, not many available over here, and a lot of them are botched into a wannabe drift missile.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 04:04, STARS: 0
Thanks for the heads up, I’m planning to get the best example I can find of whatever I end up getting, and have a couple thousand extra ready for unforeseen issues. The biggest advantage I see with the 944 is that they’re still relatively well supported by Porsche, though with the accompanying Porsche tax of course.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 04:06, STARS: 0
Sounds like an endorsement of the car to me! (The wanting to get another one)
How would you compare it to your 996?
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 04:09, STARS: 0
Thanks for the warning!
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/04/2017 at 04:15, STARS: 0
http://nl.ww3.autoscout24.be/classified/312637829
It’d be parked here already if it had the digital dash. (I know, seems like a minor detail, but that would’ve made it a carbon copy of my mom’s first own car, and nostalgia is worth a lot too)
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
10/04/2017 at 08:09, STARS: 1
06 and on were plenty reliable even if they lack a couple of the engine tweaks found in the later gen. I have an 05 with the full leather and it’s the favorite car i’ve ever owned. Outrageously comfortable, fast enough, can actually fit 4 in a pinch... the trunk opening is small, my only complaint. Really wonderful vehicle.
"MM54" (mm54mk2)
10/04/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
The 944 is probably the most rust-resistant but possibly the least reliable. The supra might be the best bet reliability-wise but expect holes in a year.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
10/04/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 1
The issues weren’t huge, but for some people they would have been turned off.
Tough to say, my 996 is still pretty new to me and I have a thing or two to dial in. The 944 felt smaller in the interior but their sizes felt the same to drive. My 944 was a base model so it was slower. The steering and handling were great, probably as good as the 996, or close. The shifter was pretty equivalent as well but only after I made sure everything was tight in the whole linkage on my 944. The interior in my 944 was just so-so, and people give the 996 grief but I don’t think it’s bad at all, my 944 dash cracked and one or two switches didn’t work(and I never determined why before I sold it).
It was pretty loud because of the hatchback and design in general. But I’ve heard later models were quieter. It was okay on gas but not great. I wrote a few things about it in the past.
The 944 was a breeze to wrench(except little electrical things) on and so far the 996 has been pretty good to me actually. But time will tell.
I think just a little more go and a better interior would make the car pretty spectacular, which is what I’ve heard the 944 s2/968 provide.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/13/2017 at 05:58, STARS: 1
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
I’ll have a proper look at your choices in a bit, just needed an excuse to post that vid.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/14/2017 at 06:50, STARS: 1
Back, here’s what I can see:
944: The Turbo is a lot more potent than the S2, decent parts supply either way.
RX-7 Turbo: Great engine, but you need to be prepared to look after a rotary.
Supra Turbo: Much bigger and less nimble, although Toyota reliability is a plus.
S2: Fantastic engine and real-world practicality, good luck finding parts though.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
FB RX-7: Loads of character, though rust prone and hard to maintain.
3000GT: Only high-spec models worth it, expect to pay in maintenance.
300ZX TT: Comfortable car with loads of poke, albeit high repair costs.
635 CSi: Plenty of fun all round, but prices are rising along with mileage.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
So, it’s more a case of deciding how safe you want to play it. The first four cars are much less expensive to maintain than the others you suggested, but go ahead and search for good examples. You should find something suitable in the end.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/14/2017 at 07:22, STARS: 1
Thanks, really helpful!
"Tareim - V8 powered" (tareimgaml)
10/22/2017 at 14:28, STARS: 0
I looked at the mk3 Supra but decided against it as the engines (non JZ ones) are meant to be a bit weak and not very reliable, they are a heavy car and handles like a boat
I’d be surprised if you can find a reasonable condition 944 turbo for less than €20k and they are not cheap to run, expect to spend 2k yearly on one, they are known to leak from the glass hatches (another one I looked at getting albeit non turbo)
if you like the idea of a Mitsubishi how about an FTO GXP?
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
10/22/2017 at 15:04, STARS: 0
There were no LHD FTOs I think?
Anyway, I’ve had to shift the search in a different direction, as cities and villages around here have started creating low emission zones, which require Euro 3 or better emission ratings to get in (and out: there’s a number of older cars stuck in garages that can’t get out without receiving fines).
At the same time, I’ve realized that the extra maintenance costs for a 25+ yo car probably exceed the higher taxes on more modern cars with somewhat bigger engines (as long as CO2 isn’t higher than 250-260g/km). The new list: Alfa 147 GTA, Audi B8 S4 and 8J TTS, BMW Z4 Coupe and 130i, VW Mk5 R32.
"Tareim - V8 powered" (tareimgaml)
10/22/2017 at 16:36, STARS: 0
ah yeah forgot about the lack of lhd
something that popped up during my search today which I never ever would’ve considered, Fiat Punto from 08 onwards, 1.4 turbo can produce 180bhp and not too bad on the looks if you go for the abarth evo version