by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 09/27/2017 at 15:17
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 09/27/2017 at 15:17
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STARS: 1
I’ve made it known I love large luxury cars on the cheap. At the same time though, Im not going to drive around in something I got a good deal on if it has 150 thousand+ miles on it. I’m not that stupid. All 5 of the following sedans are my favorite though, and each have their own unfortunate downsides. Which do you guys think though is the best?
W221 S Class
Made from 06-13, I personally think this is one of if not the best gen of S Class as it debuted a lot of tech that competitors started to follow. Used they can be cheap. Ive seen them in the teens. But thats if you’re willing to put up with 100 thousand miles. A main expensive issue with these I’ve read is the air suspension.
D3 Audi A8
The second gen of the A8, the D3 was made from 03-09. I’ve personally tried to stay as far away from these as possible due to the myriad of problems they are known to have, from electrical to mechanical.It shows in the pricing on the used market too. Many 04-05 models can be had under 10 grand if you look hard enough. The cherry on top of that expensive cake is the aluminum body, which can be life changing expensive.
Hyundia Equus
This one is currently on my short list of my next cars. Made from 11 right up until about 15' when the Genesis brand came and turned it into the G90. Rumored to be just as reliable as an LS, I’ve never heard a bad thing about them. Yet. Digging around the forums owners love them. And you get a lot of luxury for your money. Used, Ive never seen one lower than 14 grand. Low mileage Ultimate trim models can be had in the mid 20's though most sit at about 15-18 grand.
Lexus LS460
The benchmark that put the Germans on notice in the early 90's, the 460, known internally in this gen as XF40, is still currently on sale but on its way out. Ive never heard anything wrong with these either because they are literally bulletproof. They hold their value well too and owners drive them into the ground. Ive seen example with 140 thousand miles and still asking 14 grand. The downside to these is the aforementioned high mileage, which seems to be what the bulk of them on the used market are. Low mileage examples still command in the mid 20's.
F01 7 Series
I have a love hate relationship with the F01 and I have asked about it on here before. I think its handsome, love that its full of gadgets and is huge. The downside is that from what you guys have said, they are crap. The 4.4 V8 being the main piece of garbage along with exotic car repair costs which I still dont get. Used these can be tempting because they can be had for the low teens, though Ive never seen one under 17 grand.
Honorable mentions:
Lexus LS600HL
This was a rolling tech bed. Lexus touted it as V12 power and performance with V6 fuel economy. Though fuel economy improvements over the 460 were negligible ( I believe you gained 1 mpg in both city and highway for like a 20 grand price difference). Luxuriously appointed, it was a limousine and had trick triple eyed headlights that I can only image can cost a whole limb to replace. Good luck finding one though. I found 3 within 100 miles of me. And they hold their value. The cheapest I found still wanted 23 grand for an example with nearly 110 thousand miles.
Kia K900
Pretty much Kia’s version of the Equus/G90. The main difference is that these come with a base V6 you cant get on the G90. They’ve been on the market since 15' so price wise on these they seem to be holding their value. Ive never seen one under 25 grand. Deals on them new can be pretty good from what I’ve heard. But good luck getting a Kia dealer to even let you look at one.
So which of these do you guys think would be great used buys?
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
09/27/2017 at 15:22, STARS: 0
By best, in the luxury large sedan class, you actually mean “least worst” due to repair costs.
In that case, you buy the Lexus or the Hyundai. I like the LS460 over the Equus, so my vote is for the LS460.
"sony1492" (sony1492)
09/27/2017 at 15:24, STARS: 1
If it were me if be considering the Ls460 and the Equus. Even at higher miles ID trust them more than a 7 series or an Audi. Also maybe the Mercedes because it looks so damn good it might be worth having it break down and knowing buying it was just the down payment.
"djmt1" (djmt1)
09/27/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 1
I like the Hyundai for some reason but I can’t get them where I’m at so XJ Supersport because well because.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
I meant both as in best buy and least worse, but the 460 is good. I just hate the good priced ones are 10+ years old.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
09/27/2017 at 15:38, STARS: 1
Lexus or Kia if you care about reliability. Mercedes if you want a bit of fun, perhaps BMW. Hyundai if you want to Uber.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
09/27/2017 at 15:38, STARS: 1
221's are generally not too bad. I just had one in with over 170k on it. Never had more than regular maintenance, plus some bushings and engine mounts. No air suspension issues. I’ve never replaced an airmatic pump on one, and have maybe done a handful of struts. They’re still complex cars and do have problems now and then, but I wouldn’t be too scared by one.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 15:40, STARS: 0
Thats how Ive been looking at it. The LS and Equus are the ones least liable to fuck up followed by the S Class.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
09/27/2017 at 15:47, STARS: 0
I will soon be shopping for an LS460L or an XJL.
For me, A8 and 7 series are out due to reliability.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 15:48, STARS: 0
I love the current gen XJ. They seem to be bucking the trend of that Jag depreciation in some places. Surprisingly Ive never heard anything bad about them. So far.
"fintail" (fintail)
09/27/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 1
LS or W221. The former will be dull but smooth and reliable. The latter will be more expensive to run, but isn’t known to be unreliable, and is worlds better than what it replaced. People not in the know might link them to the early W220, which it did not mimic.
Equus and K900 are nice enough cars although many argue not direct equivalents. Aging A8s scare me, 7ers too but not so much.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
09/27/2017 at 16:00, STARS: 0
For reliability, you gotta go for the Lexus, but for longevity in the rust belt, I go toward the Audi. But I’m partial to those anyway.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
09/27/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 1
I haven’t heard much bad about any of the new jags. That Tata money did wonders for them and Land Rover.
"Tripper" (tripe46)
09/27/2017 at 16:10, STARS: 0
I’m really not a Merc fan, but the S class is my choice here.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 0
With the repair costs of the 7 Series, that wouldnt be fun.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 0
I think the apprehension with me comes from having never encountered one personally. The thing is Ive read and seen the W221 is pretty reliable. But thats if the 1st and second owners took care of them regular maintenance wise. The thing that scares me with them is that these things are old enough now to be on their 3rd, 4th maybe even 5 owner in high mile examples. Those are the owners that just could have driven them to shit and want to look like they have money.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:30, STARS: 0
I would love an XJL. Ive been waiting around to see what problems they have though because I still hadnt heard anything bad about the current gen. A8 and 7 are my love/hate picks.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
09/27/2017 at 16:31, STARS: 1
But that’s why you get a an indirection from someone who knows the car first. And find a clean one with good service history. It takes some effort for sure, but as the owner of two older Mercedes, trust me that effort is worth it.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:33, STARS: 0
The LS to me is so dull and reliable it might as well be a big ES. Like it’ll never do you wrong and thats what I like. The W221 is worlds better than what it replaced reliability wise. I just get off put about what could go wrong and that air suspension.
The Equus and K900 give you the best bang for the buck I think: the reliability of the Japanese with the luxury and comfort of both the Germans and Japanese while at the same time being not as expensive to repair as either. And both are newer. I dont think I would ever touch an A8. The 7er is still a might with me.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:33, STARS: 0
The A8 doesnt scare you?
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:34, STARS: 0
Yea thats weird to me. I literally havent heard anything bad about the current gen XJ. They really did invest money in where it was needed I guess.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
09/27/2017 at 16:48, STARS: 0
Going as far back as the later model XKs, they haven’t seem to have any of the issues the older ones did. Sure some things pop up here and there, but certainly nothing like before.
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
09/27/2017 at 16:50, STARS: 0
The answer, all day every day and twice on Sundays, is E38.
I mean, I’m an idiot so I’d probably buy an S8 and live to regret it, but still.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
09/27/2017 at 16:51, STARS: 1
Nope, I doubled down and bought a 2009 S8 for my daily. I’m about to do the intake valve cleaning soon at the 55k mark. Love the car.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
09/27/2017 at 16:52, STARS: 0
Like I said, I partial.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:53, STARS: 0
Yea I think things started to change about 08, because my S Type R was garbage and it was an 04. And I wouldnt touch an XJ from the early 00's.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:56, STARS: 0
Yea cocaine is a hell of a drug and you saying you would get an S8 shows you should lay off it. Nah im messing with you I love the S8 too, but Lambo derived V10 in a 12 year old sedan you can pick up for the price of a new Fiesta is a no no.
I love the E38, specifically a V12, but its too old for me to take seriously.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 16:58, STARS: 1
Damn. You’re living my dream/nightmare. If you can afford it then more power 2 you. You havent had to do the timing chain yet have you?
"RPM esq." (rpm3)
09/27/2017 at 16:59, STARS: 0
I thought you wanted luxurious, reliable, cheap luxury? A late E38 740 is all that and more. But not the V12. Even I’m not that dumb.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
09/27/2017 at 17:01, STARS: 1
No timing chain yet. I’m hoping I got a young enough one with better guides that I can keep healthy with lower interval oil changes. But worst case, I have access to a shop with a hoist, so I can drop the engine and do the chains if worse came to worse. That’s one of the only reasons I even looked at these, is because of the access to the shop. And I have alternate vehicles if I need to lay it up for a bit for repair. But hopefully that won’t be necessary.
"Officer Jim Lahey is not a real cop" (officer-jim-lahey)
09/27/2017 at 17:02, STARS: 0
Do any of them have folding rear seats? Hard to find in this segment.
Maybe just tell me “no, none of them do.” My wallet will thank you.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 18:01, STARS: 1
You have it made then. And I think you said you have 55 thousand on it? You should be good for another 50 thousand miles until you even have to think about pretty much taking the car about to get to the chain. I love the S8 though, even with that timing chain issue.
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
09/27/2017 at 18:03, STARS: 1
I would personally pick the full sized STS-V in this price range. A lot of luxury and a lot of fun.
From your list I would have to go with an LS460 probably due to quality and overall reliability.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
09/27/2017 at 18:14, STARS: 0
Yeah, 7 series really not tossable (driven 3 generations) but it might be fun for a few weeks, a month ... then, an engine rebuild!
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 0
No I dont think so. But I also think there really isnt a reason for them too. The trunks are cavernous enough to hold most things. And the auto makers assumed that people needing to haul anything long enough to have folding rear seats either have second cars that can or buy something else entirely.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/27/2017 at 18:20, STARS: 0
STS-Vs are hard to find now though. And pre BK GM quality along with Northstar reliability means a pass from me. Not a hard pass, just a pass.
"SpeedSix" (speedsix)
09/27/2017 at 18:21, STARS: 0
Like any older luxury car, you buy the best that you can afford.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
09/27/2017 at 18:38, STARS: 1
E38 740i Sport
/thread
"Officer Jim Lahey is not a real cop" (officer-jim-lahey)
09/27/2017 at 18:48, STARS: 1
Yup, there was really no need for them to do so.
...but if they did, I could haul around people during the week and a surfboard on weekends, luxuriously...
Why can’t an Alpina B7 also be a surf wagon?
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
09/27/2017 at 21:11, STARS: 1
Thats the hope. By that time it’ll be ready for a complete reseal as well, good times. They aren’t for the faint of heart for sure, but not a bad way to travel. The old Ferris Bueller advice is pertinent.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
09/27/2017 at 22:19, STARS: 1
Pre BK GM can’t have any worse maintenance costs than a German car I’d imagine,
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
09/28/2017 at 09:50, STARS: 1
Once Tata took over in 08 I think, things started improving. They still have some minor issues with electronics and what not, but the drivetrains seem to be bulletproof now.
"DrScientist" (DrScientist)
09/28/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 1
i think you can get the F01 with the twin turbo 6, no? im pretty sure they made a 740 for this generation?
anyway, how important is POWER for you? because the 6 might save a few k/year in maintenance.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/28/2017 at 21:07, STARS: 0
Oh yea. I thought that they didnt offer the I6 powered 7 Series here in the US. That changes things. Power isnt a big issue to me, especially in something like a luxo barge. But even then with the 7, I would be worried about the other repairs or electrical things going wrong. Ill have to do some digging though because I have never heard anything bad about the 740's.
"DrScientist" (DrScientist)
09/28/2017 at 21:12, STARS: 1
yeah. ive been debating getting something with 4 doors. carting my folks around more now, and they’re beginning to complain about crawling into the back seats. anyway, f01 740 is near the top of the list. i figure i SHOULDNT be racing off the line in this car, and it SHOULD be generally calm and smooth, so a v8 isnt top priority.
at least a spark plug change will be 2 plugs cheaper.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/28/2017 at 21:16, STARS: 0
Yea the engine stuff should be cheaper. But at the same time its still a 7. So things that can go wrong and be a cheap fix in other cars will be eye watering in this car. Im just speculating though. I would have to do some research. But this just moved up my list. My whole reason for avoiding it was the 4.4.
"DrScientist" (DrScientist)
09/28/2017 at 21:23, STARS: 1
welcome to the internet!
here to help...
sometimes...
well...
once in a while,
maybe.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/28/2017 at 21:25, STARS: 0
Nah that was help thanks. I literally in all my car searching had never thought to look for the 6 in the 7. And when I did see 740 I thought it was just a smaller V8. I knew there was a 6 cylinder but I didnt think that it was offered here, just the way MB had stopped offering a 6 cylinder S in the US.
"DrScientist" (DrScientist)
09/28/2017 at 21:25, STARS: 0
oh... the lighter weight (i’m assuming the 740 is lighter than the 750) will probably mean better longevity out of the suspension bits. those can get expensive quick as well.
"LJ909" (lj909)
09/28/2017 at 21:28, STARS: 0
Yea I believe theres about a 220 lb difference.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/31/2017 at 06:19, STARS: 0
You know you want to.
"LJ909" (lj909)
10/31/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 0
Hell no Im not that crazy. As it stands right now its going to be between the Equus/K900 and a 740Li.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/31/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 0
All of the cars you posted have electric gremlins though, so I doubt the QP could be that much more terrifying to deal with.
"LJ909" (lj909)
10/31/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 0
Of these only the Germans have those problems. The Equus (based on my own research) is just as reliable as the LS, which was Hyundai’s benchmark when developing the car. The only thing that worries me about buying one is the servicing. Ive heard, but cant confirm, that only Equus approved dealers can work on the car. I dont want that hassle.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/31/2017 at 15:51, STARS: 0
That’s the problem with pretty much every new car, you need to bring them to the dealer for any kind of maintenance, can’t even change the oil yourself these days. :/
Also the Equus falls short in most other categories, but I appreciate the effort, I’d need to know more about them in the end.
Anyway, here’s my last risky-but-actually-good-value alternative:
"LJ909" (lj909)
10/31/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 0
In the case of the Equus I mean that the way it was designed it might be able to be only worked on at Equus approved dealers. That can be a headache.
From my research on the Equus though, it only falls short in the brand cache and some trim pieces (quality wise) other than that its the best bang for the buck I think. Like it really is a no brainer.
And that gen is handsome but I wouldnt go that old.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/31/2017 at 17:28, STARS: 0
Yep, you’re right there. I think SM70's review of a Genesis sums up what I think about that gen of Equus though.
It has all of the performance and features on paper, but lacks any of the touches that have made Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus such standouts in the mainstream luxury car market.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-do-not-like-this-genesis-sam-i-am-1796500667
"LJ909" (lj909)
10/31/2017 at 17:33, STARS: 1
Yea I remember reading that article. It was a perfect summery of that gen Genesis and the same can be applied to the Equus. The G90 (what the Equus became) and the G80 seem to be more worthy of their luxury intentions. The G70 furthers that. I do appreciate the effort that they are doing though. Its just all gravy for buyers like me because with their depreciation they are great used buys. The Stinger is going to fall into the same category.
"RT" (rt-p)
10/31/2017 at 17:35, STARS: 0
Yeah, depreciation on those will make them a steal, I just hope we get a manual option for one of them sometime.
"LJ909" (lj909)
10/31/2017 at 17:39, STARS: 0
Yea the G70 will have the option of a manual, but only with the base 4.