by "Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
Published 09/26/2017 at 11:54
by "Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
Published 09/26/2017 at 11:54
Tags: Is Miata the answer?
STARS: 2
We’re going to be buying a new house soon and it’s going to double my commute time to and back home from work everyday. I currently only have a ~20 minute commute each way, with most of the time being spent on the interstate with average morning/afternoon congestion. The Crown Vic is a great car for sitting in traffic, but gas mileage is not it’s strong suit. If my commute is going to double, then I’m definitely going to need something more economical. The wife is getting a minivan with kiddo #3 on the way, and we’ll take that anywhere we have to go with the kids. So she wants me to get something small and economical to save on gas costs. In her mind, I’m sure she’s thinking a little blegh econobox. But I know I can get something cheap and economical, but still fun.
My first thought obviously was an NB Miata. I’ve come very close to purchasing one before, but at that point it was just going to be a for fun car, and the finances didn’t line up for a toy. Now though, a few years and promotions later, and as a replacement DD, it seems like the perfect fit. The only thing I don’t know is, what would it be like to commute 45 min. to an hour each way in one? I’ve taken one for a nice long winding drive with the top down on some back roads and had an absolute blast. But this will be stop/go traffic on the interstate early in the morning and late in the afternoon. I know we have many Miata owners on here, so do you any of you happen to daily yours for a significant commute time/distance? If so, is it miserable? Or is it just like any other car?
EDIT - ADDITION INFO: I live in the southeast, so I don’t have to worry about snow or ice or anything wintery at all. The only thing I have to deal with is rain.
UPDATE: No, apparently Miata is not the answer. Too many factors here that I didn’t consider. But that’s exactly why my half asleep brain made this post. I’ll be posting again with options that are more thought out and more researched to get some more real world insight. I appreciate everyone’s input here!
"wkiernan" (wkiernan)
09/26/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 0
I did 34 miles each way in a ‘93 NA, or a ‘99 NB, or an ‘04 NB, five days a week, fifty weeks a year, from 2000 to 2014. It was fine. Go for it.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
09/26/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 2
Depending on the distance, I think you should look at a used Nissan Leaf. They’re not a ton of fun to drive, but nobody really cares about that in traffic. When you’re stopped, aside from environmental controls to keep you warm/cool, it uses no power. Highly efficient.
They’re also really cheap used cars. Like ridiculously cheap.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
09/26/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 0
I was under the impression that Miatas suck gas mileage wise, and the later NB requires premium.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 0
If I’m going to go the electric/hybrid route, it’ll be with a Volt. Which I am also considering. But I would prefer to get something that can do double duty as a fun car for auto-x because I don’t see the T/A getting done anytime soon.
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
09/26/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 0
I do 45 minutes in an NA as a big dude and it’s fine. NB should be similar.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 0
I was not aware of that. I’ll admit I didn’t read up much on their mileage, but the little bit I did see, people were claiming high 20's to low 30s.
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
09/26/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 1
I get 30ish in my NA while beating the shit out of it, 30+ if I drive slower.
"Chuckles" (chucklesw37)
09/26/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 0
When I lived in North Carolina, I used my 94 Miata (1.8L 5 speed) to commute to work and back. It was about 30 minutes, and a mix of city and highway. It was fun, but don’t expect great gas mileage. I was doing well if I got 25mpg. And as fun as it is on back roads, it’s less fun when you’re surrounded by trucks and SUVs that are so big that they don’t see you. It’s fun, and I’d do it again, but if you want economical and safe there are much better options.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/26/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 0
Finally someone who understands this. I have so many people telling me it’s worth it to have a fun commuter car. No. It isn’t. When you’re going 5mph and just woke up about an hour ago there’s no such thing as a fun car. The only thing you care about is a comfortable and gas sipping car. I don’t give a crap if my car is a driver’s car. I’m barely using any throttle. I just want a comfortable, gas saving and comfortable car that has climate controls.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/26/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 1
If your drive has no traffic, like mine it’s worth it to have a fun commuter car.
Also if I didn’t live so damn far from work, I’d probably drive an i3.
"Jarrett - [BRZ Boi]" (jarrettw)
09/26/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 0
I do 60-75 minutes each way (40km), in mostly bumper to bumper every day until the snow falls. After a couple weeks, working the clutch stopped being a strain on my leg. I can get roughly 400-450km out of about 45L of fuel with this style of driving. I do have to put 91 in mine though, since it has the VVT motor, which is 2001+.
Just make sure you get one with AC that still blows cold for the days where it’s too hot to have the roof down.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
09/26/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 0
Have you considered the full financial implications here?
You say that you’d get the car to save gas cost, but how much are you really spending on gas? And how much cash would you be dropping to get the car to save money with in the first place?
Compare the cost of running the Crown Vic for the next 3 years to the cost of running the Miata, then compare it to how much interest you’d earn with like a CD of the cash difference between the two, assuming you’d sell the Vic and buy a Miata.
"ToyotaFamily" (robbav35)
09/26/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 1
My friend did about a 40 mile daily commute in his NB for like two years. He said it wasn’t bad, but often times people would be totally unaware of his car being there, so you definitely have to be on your feet.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
09/26/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
Unless you plan on keeping the Crown Vic, you should absolutely not get a Miata. There will be a day that your wife needs to go one place and you need to go another and your going to have to split child responsibilities and you are going to be pushing the stroller down the street cuz a Miata can’t baby.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
I guess I should have explained that gas mileage isn’t the only reason for getting something new(er). The Vic is old and falling apart. It needs to be retired, and I’ve been planning on replacing it anyway. This decision isn’t just budgetary. The gas mileage factor just came in due to the location of the house we’re looking to buy.
I’m definitely going to take this into account before making any purchases though. I have a datalogger I keep meaning to hook up so I can see what my true gas mileage is with the Vic. But it’s getting replaced either way. Not necessarily with a Miata. That was just an idea that pooped into my head to look into. Hence my post here. There are many other cars I’m considering as well. The Miata however is the darling of Oppo, so I figured I’d check in here to see what the feasibility of one as a DD was.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
This is basically the whole point of my post. To find out if the Miata would be a pain in a long commute with some stop and go traffic or not. I’m all for a comfy daily. But my experience with fun cars during a commute, or with a long commute in general are pretty much non-existent. I’ve been very lucky in my work life so far where I haven’t ever had a that long of a commute. Ideally I’d like to find a fun car that’s not annoying to commute in. But is that possible? I have no idea. That’s why I’m asking here, lol.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 0
I hate how the i3 looks. If I’m going electric/hybrid, it’ll be with a Volt.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
09/26/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 0
Miatas scream at highway speeds. NBs, depending on the transmission (5 or 6 speed) spin at 3500 to 3800 rpm at 70mph. That’s higher than my Fit (~3000-3200), and doesn’t even consider the noise implications of having a droptop.
The Fit would be a better highway car, though I’m not going to claim it’s a good highway car, and it’s somewhat auto-x-able. Either an NC or a Toyobaru would give you the same amount of fun with a more livable amount of engine/road noise. An older Civic Si would both be reasonably priced and way nicer to drive, a 500 Abarth would be fun, though likely only incrementally better than the NB in either fuel economy or noise.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
That Is a factor that I’ve considered with all other options I’ve been looking at. But something in my half-asleep head this morning said “Oooo, what about a Miata??? Miata is always the answer on Oppo.”, and thus this post came into being without any real world considerations. I’ll be putting together a new post with everything I’ve researched so far, and hopefully that will provide some more realistic information.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 1
The route I take runs right by the port, so the traffic I’m in is filled with semis, so I think the Miata is probably not a good idea now, lol.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
09/26/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 0
How tall are you?
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 0
6'2".
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
09/26/2017 at 13:52, STARS: 0
yep, its an unfortunate truth of parenting. i don’t know if your wife can drive stick, but telling her she needs to learn is another risk which varies wife to wife. mine, while she could do it, wouldn’t. Its probably not bad, as I couldn’t see her trying to deal with a crying baby in the back and rev matching.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 14:11, STARS: 0
She briefly learned it when she was in high school, but says she couldn’t do it now if she tried. She does want to re-learn though. I just haven’t had a (running) manual car since I was in high school (before we were dating) to be able to teach her, lol.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/26/2017 at 14:12, STARS: 0
I have a NB Miata and I love it to death. I drive it everywhere and put a million miles on it. Even in the winter time I put a solid 8-10k miles on it. Overall I have been driving it 20-25k miles per year as my only car. BUT, and its a big BUT, my daily commute is only like 20 miles round trip. So 99% of that driving is for entertainment! Could I commute further in the car? Yeah. But would I if I had the choice? HELL NO. This car fits me like a glove but it would ruin the experience if I had to suffer through traffic and long drives every day. I’d rather have a coupe for longer drives every day or a nice hot hatch.
I think if I HAD to commute in my Miata like 80-100 miles a day I would get a hard top, properly fix the AC, put some s2k or Evo seats in the car, and maybe go back to stock springs. Plus I’d have to run less sticky tires just to not eat tires like a madman. If I drive it gently and keep it below 75, I will easily get 33mpg on the highway. And I am hard pressed to get less than ~27-28 combined doing normal agressive driving. I have managed to obtain 19mpg on a day at the Dragon, but thats another story!
I’d seriously suggest an 86/BRZ though. That I could 100% live with dailying. They drive the same pretty much but that format is so much more comfortable. I dont want a giant road barge or a econo shitbox, that would be giving up too much.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/26/2017 at 14:21, STARS: 0
Yeah, NB2 (2001-2005) require premium. But that VVT is totally worth it! Unless you plan to go turbo, NB2 is the far better NB to have. Gas mileage is pretty acceptable generally. Yeah its not a Prius but you would be hard pressed to get lower than 28mpg regularly. The bigger issue is the gearing though, shits obnoxious going 80 and pushing over 4k.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
09/26/2017 at 14:35, STARS: 1
I figured you had your ducks in a row, just thought I’d play devil’s advocate (for lack of a better term). I’ve seen too many people think about one factor and miss the bigger picture.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
09/26/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 0
FiST
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
09/26/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
Unless you plan to go turbo, NB2 is the far better NB to have.
What if you plan to go turbo, AND you have an NB2? ;)
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
09/26/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 0
He said it wasn’t bad, but often times people would be totally unaware of his car being there, so you definitely have to be on your feet.
I highly recommend the Thompson Automotive air horn kit for replacing the largely useless factory horn. It isn’t “train horn” loud, but gets people’s attention when you need it.
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
09/26/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 0
But this will be stop/go traffic on the interstate early in the morning and late in the afternoon.
This to me might be your biggest concern. I think stop & go is miserable in any car. In one that is so fun to toss through the corners and open roads, I find it torture because it is such a waste of such a great little nimble car.
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
09/26/2017 at 15:00, STARS: 0
old subaru, Impreza RS 2.5 4 door
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/26/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 0
Well its certainly possible, but it will just cost more.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 15:20, STARS: 0
I appreciate it man. That’s why I come here with questions. I know Oppo will always provide the real-life, no-holds-barred answers.
"mazda616" (mazda616)
09/26/2017 at 15:44, STARS: 0
I’d steer clear of a two-seater for the reasons mentioned here. Someday, you and your wife will both need to be different places with the kids and the Miata unfortunately won’t cut it for that. :(
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
09/26/2017 at 16:03, STARS: 0
I daily drove an NB for a 52 mile round trip, all highway, commute for a couple of years. It was a terrible highway commuting car, and the fuel mileage isn’t even good. My commute involved getting on the interstate and setting cruise control at 82mph (which won’t even be noticed by the state police at only 7 over), and then turning it off at my exit 26 miles later. The gearing on miatas got shorter as they went along, and an NB1 is turning about 4200rpms at 82mph, which will return around 23mpg. If you’re route is slower, or you get an nb2 with the taller wheel/tire combo, then mileage might be better.
However, the fuel mileage was the smallest problem with an NB as a highway commuter. The real problems is the never ending noise and barely adequate climate control. Driving to work with the top down may seem nice, but it isn’t so great in practice with a real highway commute. The top down on a calm day, with moderate temperatures and a moderate speeds is a wonderful thing, but that turns out to not be most of the time. At 80+mph, the top down simply equals a non stop blast of air that gets really old after about 10 or 15 miles. Below about 60 degrees and over about 90 are unpleaseant with the top down at highway speeds, as you just get blasted with hot or cold air. You also end up showing up to work looking like you got blasted by a jet engine, which may or may not be acceptable in your career field. Putting the top up solves the wind, but doesn’t always solve the temperature problem. Even with a properly working A/C system, an NB will struggle to maintain a comfortable interior temperature once the thermometer approaches and passes the high 90's even with the top up. At midday, you’ll still feel the heat radiating through the top, and in the winter you’ll always notice the cold up by your head.
The noise is, by far, the worst part of communing with an NB. The top down wind noise is deafening at highway speeds. The top up is only slightly better, as there is still tons of wind noise, lots of road noise, and the engine humming along 4200rpms. The radio would have to be turned nearly all the way up to hear it over the rest of the noise with the top up. After a couple of years of that, by the time I got to work I was alway thinking (in my best Clarkson voice) “Please! Make it stop!.” A hard top helps this some, but not nearly as much you hope it would.
Don’t get me wrong, an NB is a wonderful car, and between my Dad and I we’ve four NA or NB miatas over the years. They are, however, a terrible highway commuting car. My father currently has an 05 with only 55k on it that he drives to work on a solely surface street commute of 1.5 miles each way. For that kind of commute, they are a fantastic car.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
09/26/2017 at 16:35, STARS: 0
Plan on aftermarket seats.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/26/2017 at 16:48, STARS: 0
Yep. Every other car I’m considering has some for of backseat that child seats could go into. I was lacking enough coffee when I made this post this morning though so my brain decided to ignore the whole no backseat thing. This car has since been retracted from my list of considerations.
"daender" (daender)
09/26/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 0
I used to daily my NB2 500 miles a week for nearly a whole year, 90% of that being highways and interstates. My odometer shot up from 77k to about 107k in that time frame.
Get a NB1 (‘99-’00) since they use regular 87 octane but, even then, you’ll maybe see high 20s to low 30s at best if your driving on highways and interstates below 75 mph (exceed 4k rpm, which is 80 mph in top gear, and the fuel map switches over and starts dumping fuel to prevent knock). Comfort-wise, I’d call it adequate but I’m still young-ish and don’t mind the semi-loud exhaust and semi-harsh ride.
I echo what everyone else has said, if you’re going to need to move kids about, get a car with decent back seats.
"Chuckles" (chucklesw37)
09/26/2017 at 19:42, STARS: 0
It’s a great car, but there’s a time and a place for it. Stop and go traffic can be annoying with a manual, and the gearing isn’t ideal for highway cruising either. My Miata is happiest on a country road with a speed limit of 55. A highway with a speed limit of 70 (and where traffic goes 80) does not equate to good gas mileage. And those semis will never see you at all.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/26/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 0
My commute is 45 minutes in stop and go traffic with some hills. I never leave second gear. If it’s bad enough I never leave first gear.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/26/2017 at 21:24, STARS: 0
I figured. I haven’t driven a Miata (I’m not a fan of them and the hype is too much for me - yeah, yeah I know I’m on Oppo) but it’s pretty similar to the BRZ so I’ll give you some first hand experience. The BRZ has a bonus of an actual roof so keep that in mind.
When you have a long commute the tire and road noise will start to get annoying. Yes, most of the time it becomes white noise but when you’re having a bad morning or day, trust me, it’s grating. The comfort is non-existent. Yes, you get climate control and radio/bluetooth but that’s it. The ride is firm so expansion joints, pot holes and filled in cracks on the road sound and feel horrible. If you have those concrete paved roads like the 405 in LA forget it. You’ll feel nothing and hear nothing after your commute.
Something else nobody tells you about because they only focus on how fun the car is, is how annoying the small fuel tank in lightweight fun cars are. You’re always between tanks through the course of a full week if you have a long commute in traffic. You can’t make it through the week and if you don’t have time to fill up in the mornings and forgot the night before your drive to work will get very tense (ask me how I know).
Also, the roof in my car has no sound deadening so rain sounds like rocks falling from the sky. It’s horrible. In the Miata you may not have that issue but you’ll have wind noise. I know someone with an s2000 and the wind noise is horrific. Imagine the windows cracked down a tiny bit as you’re driving along on a freeway. Now imagine that on ALL THE TIME while you’re commuting. Every. Day.
Last thing, cars that sound good don’t sound good in traffic. All those keyboard racers who never actually buy the cars they keep shouting to automakers to make for them are full of shit. “Who needs a radio when you can listen to that engine note all day?” I do. I don’t care if the the car sounds glorious, if it’s loud all the time and I can’t hear the radio then the commute sucks. Engine noise/sound becomes grating when you’re in traffic on a long commute.
TL;DR long commutes are horrible in lightweight sports cars.
I should note though that heavy “not as fun” sports cars are actually awesome in traffic. The sound deadening works wonders, the induction sound is subtle enough to hear everything else over it, and the creature comforts are awesome. People focus too much on cars being heavy and discounting what makes them heavy. The reality is you probably would never be able to go fast enough on a track where the weight would matter. And if you are, then you most likely have a track rat anyways and the argument is moot.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/26/2017 at 21:32, STARS: 1
That sucks. Mine is also about 45 minutes. There are 5 red lights on my drive to work and 6 on the way home, I rarely see any traffic at all. I do so much highway driving that my transmission choice would have made little difference. That is until I get to a back road and want to row my own, then it matters. I also find myself driving the 3 on the weekend at times. When I had the 128i, I was always driving the M3.
"Camshaft Chris: Skyline/McLaren/Porsche Fanboy" (camshaft-chris)
09/27/2017 at 09:17, STARS: 0
The Miata is definitely off the list as an option now. During my brief consideration though, I was only going to consider one that had the hardtop with it. Like I said in other comments, it was an irrational thought that got made into an Oppo post before any logic clicked in to place in my brain. I blame lack of coffee that morning.
As far as the BRZ goes, I’m looking used cars here and I haven’t found too many BRZs in my price range. I would probably end up having to get an FR-S instead, which I have no issue with. I didn’t know the Toyo-baru twins had so much road noise. That’s good to know. I’ve been wanting one ever since they were first released, so they are pretty high up on the list of possibilities. I feel like any car that fits what I’m looking for though would have some increased level of road noise over my boat of a Crown Vic. Simple solution would just be to add some Dynamat in. “Blah blah extra weight blah blah” I know. But I’m not looking to set any auto-x or track day records here. I just want a nice, affordable daily that I can have a little fun with and not feel like I’ve given up on life (like I how I feel driving the Crown Vic).
I’ve still got a lot of research and test driving and money saving ahead of me here before anything gets finalized. Plus this is just the initial stage of research, so I appreciate all of the info. Thanks man.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/27/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 0
I totally get that. I was adamant that a manual was always needed. Now I’m over that train of thought. I’d rather have automatic for my daily and a manual for weekdays when I’m feeling it and weekends. I’ve been looking at IS250 f-sports and Q50/G37s. They make a convincing case.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/27/2017 at 12:37, STARS: 0
No worries. I post stuff like this all the time. I was just trying to be informative but realize I may have come off a bit harsh.
Yeah, the Toyobaru twins do have road noise. I’m okay with admitting when I was wrong and will gladly let others know about the shortcoming of my decisions. It’s life. You live and you learn. If you keep saying you made the best decision when you know that’s not the case then that’s just counterproductive in my opinion.
The rain part is no joke. I live in California and we have weak poser rain here. I can’t imagine how loud the car would be in actual rain. It’s exactly like being under an aluminum awning during rain is the best I can describe it. Like you said though, dynamat does wonders. Who cares if it’s extra weight. The extra weight is negligible but the extra insulation would be amazing. Well worth the trade off.
Another thing I forgotten to mention is the transmission. You’ll always be between gears in traffic. First gear gets you to maybe 12mph until it hits 3000 at which point it gets very loud (and I have the sound tube plugged). Second gets you to maybe 25mph and it’s the same story. So if someone slows down to 8mph you’re stuck with either jamming it into first which is a bad idea. Or lugging the engine a tiny bit. Same story with 20mph. You’re either slipping the clutch a bit in third or you jam it into second and have to change in a few seconds. Now imagine that every day every time you’re in stop and go traffic.
This is similar for other cars that reviewers always say you have to rev to get power. They always ship it as super fun and you get a satisfying feeling of earning the power. That’s true. It’s very fun to rev the car and feel it come alive. The tradeoff though is it’s lifeless below the optimal rev range which is usually higher up and renders it useless in traffic. Long story short, always check the gearing in a car and determine if it’ll actually fit the bill for what you intend to do with it.
Anyways, if you want a BRZ you can definitely pick up a used one for cheap. It’s an awesome car if you go into it knowing those shortcomings. Although if I were to do it again I’d rather have a GTi or a 370z. Have you considered those?
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/27/2017 at 15:10, STARS: 1
I don’t see a problem with an auto and a manual. If you gave up a manual for an auto, that might be a different story. I knew a manual wouldn’t be detrimental to my commute and the two times a year I sit in ATL traffic, it’s not a big deal. If I sat in traffic all day, I would have probably gotten an auto E93. The convertible makes up for it being an auto.
"NojustNo" (front24200)
09/27/2017 at 20:14, STARS: 0
In very late with manual mazda3 hatch. Civilized but fun and trackable