by "DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
Published 09/20/2017 at 14:30
by "DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
Published 09/20/2017 at 14:30
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STARS: 1
I hadn’t heard about this before. Is this something anyone else here is familiar with, or can weigh in on? From what I can see Ford’s response to this documented issue is abysmal. Links below.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/71b20z/ford_focus_rs_keep_blowing_head_gaskets_stock/
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
EDIT:
Autodougger himself weighed in. His explanation actually makes a lot of sense.
"BeaterGT" (beatergt)
09/20/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 0
Screen name: Pli
Symptoms/when did you notice issue?: Uneven idle and white smoke at start-up, smell of coolant, eventually loss of cabin heat due to coolantloss. After refilling coolant took the car for a drive and the starter failed to engage forcing me to tow the car to Ford shop. Not sure of connection to the original problem. Only thing I can see is if coolant has entered starter and caused a short?
Mileage when issue confirmed: 1300 km
VIN (last 4 digits): April 2016 build
Modifications (what are they) or stock: Stock
Dealer action to resolve: (May 2017) Authorized Ford shop found head gasket between cylinders looking slightly irregular and traced coolant gas in at least 2 cylinders. This with engine still in car.
Ford stated that there were no head gaskets in stock and that they would therefore replace engine!
Emphasis mine. That is insane. Also, what is the point of replacing the engine if there a design problem causing head gasket failures?
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/20/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 0
I thought dealing with bad throttle position actuators was bad enough.
Turbo cars are wonderful, I just wonder about the longevity of trying to get that much power out of these small engines. Although, Mercedes seems to be able to do it fine with the CLA45 AMG.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 14:44, STARS: 0
Insane, but in this case they did the right thing. It seems to be a certain series of motors with this problem. So maybe a new engine will fix the issue.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 1
Turbo engines are complicated, and as manufacturers try to push more and more power out of these engines while maintaining or increasing efficiency, its safe to say the complexity of the engine will scale with it.
I think Ford just had a bad part design, it happens...but I feel that with a low run “halo car” such as this, the owners deserve some first class treatment. Maybe that’s just the entitled
millennial
in me coming out, but I just don’t see them stepping up to the plate on this one.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
09/20/2017 at 15:01, STARS: 0
I wish ford was like that with my dad’s van. Went something like:rusted out frame has nothing to do with other recall for rusted frames. Reject repair.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/20/2017 at 15:01, STARS: 1
You’re right, anytime you add complication you add a bunch of potential problems.
With this many problems reported, it’s probably a design fault. I mean it could also be something everyone is doing, but if you have this many failures it sounds like it’s a design fault, whether that be material choice or poor design or maybe even a manufacturing defect.
"BeaterGT" (beatergt)
09/20/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 0
Ah, ok. From the limited reading I did at work, I did not see it was indicative of certain engines being affected. Makes me feel for the people that are getting new head gaskets that might have the same problem reoccur.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 1
That’s what I always tell people who are looking to buy a car with a turbo. You need to make car care a serious concern when you have a turbo (if car care isn’t already a serious concern)
Also keep in mind that most of the 30 failures in the forum thread are between 10k and 20k miles, and most of that block of failures are under 20k miles, AND some have even reported failures under 10k miles. It is absolutely a design flaw.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 15:13, STARS: 0
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
^From the reddit thread.
I like to look at cars with the perspective of a 10 year/200k mile minimum ownership. If I owned an affected Focus RS, I definitely wouldn’t have confidence that the car would meet my lifespan expectations. If I were in that position and I had the right circumstance, I’d start looking at replacements.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/20/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 1
That’s why I got a non-turbo BMW. As much as I would love a turbo BMW in addition to my M3, I just don’t have the money for an M3 and a turbo BMW. My N52 powered BMW has handled 14k miles in 6 months without issue.
With numbers like that, it’s most likely a design fault. There are other things it could be, not very likely but in order to get to the root cause you can’t eliminate anything.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
09/20/2017 at 15:22, STARS: 0
Is this the same engine as on the EB Mustangs? FWIW, I haven’t heard about this happening on either of the pony forums I frequent. The closest thing I’ve read is that installing a better head gasket is recommended for high-boost tuning.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 15:26, STARS: 1
Its similar, but had to be modified for transverse layout. Quite a few components actually, including the engine block itself.
Introduction
The exclusive variant of the newly developed and specially adapted 2.3liter EcoBoost gasoline engine develops 257 kW (350 PS).
The following components have been modified:
Cylinder Head
-New aluminum alloy (AS7GU) to improve the heat dissipation.
Cylinder head gasket
Exhaust side valve springs
-The strength of the valve springs has been reinforced
Engine block
-New, high strength engine block to reduce wear at high temperatures and under high loads.
-Machined cylinder block to make space for the transfer case
Flywheel
-Redesigned dual mass flywheel to absorb vibrations and other undesired NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) error states
-Modified DW10F clutch with ‘TAC’ (Travel Adjusted Clutch) technology enables higher overboost torques and is automatically adapted to the wear
Crankshaft pulley
-The pulley is specially adapted to the RS engine
TC including connections
-The TC is equipped with a new turbine and a larger compressor wheel (2.3622 in (60 mm) to 2.4803 in (63 mm)). This permits a higher boost pressure and ensures improved aerodynamics
Crankcase ventilation
-The flow rate has been increased from 17 liters per minute to 45 liters per minute
Oil filter adapter seal
-A new, synthetic oil is used for the 2.3L EcoBoost for improved lubrication and durability
Source:
http://www.focusrs.org/forum/9-focus-rs-discussions/7930-rs-2-3-eb-compared-mustang-2-3-a.html
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
09/20/2017 at 15:51, STARS: 0
To back up your suspicion, yeah, the 45's are holding up well.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
09/20/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 0
I haven’t really heard anything that negative about them in terms of reliability. They also get right around the same power out of a similar size engine as the RS. I wonder what the long term results are going to be like, when many start getting up there in age and on their second/third owner who may not take care of them as designed.
"Mr. FiSTer of Team FiST Fetish" (mrfist)
09/20/2017 at 15:57, STARS: 0
My ST had a similar issue, it was dead at 24,xxx.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 0
What failed on it?
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
09/20/2017 at 16:04, STARS: 1
More power and less displacement I think. But no stick. Most first owners aren’t doing all of the recommended maintenance (there’s a lot, and it’s frequent) and they’re still holding up well. I’ve done a couple turbos for excessive turbine shaft play, but there was a campaign for early ones, and one rear diff because the clutch in it burned up. That’s it. Nothing on the engine itself. Which is good because it’s exactly half (seriously, they share a ton of parts) of the M176/177/178 engines.
"Mr. FiSTer of Team FiST Fetish" (mrfist)
09/20/2017 at 16:14, STARS: 0
“SUBJECT VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 1.6L GTDI ENGINES MAY EXPERIENCE UNDERHOOD FIRES DUE TO LOCALIZED OVERHEATING OF THE ENGINE CYLINDER HEAD, POTENTIALLY LEADING TO CRACKS AND RESULTING IN OIL LEAKS. FOR THIS TO OCCUR, THE VEHICLE MUST HAVE A COOLANT LOSS WELL BELOW THE MINIMUM LEVEL IN THE COOLANT BOTTLE AT THE TIME OF A COLD START OF THE VEHICLE. WHEN A COLD ENGINE IS STARTED WITH INSUFFICIENT COOLANT AND THE VEHICLE IS DRIVEN, THE CYLINDER HEAD UNDERGOES RAPID HEATING, WHICH CAN LEAD TO LOCALIZED OVERHEATING OF THE CYLINDER HEAD AND RESULTANT CRACKING. AS OF MARCH 17, 2017, FORD WAS AWARE OF 26 REPORTS OF UNDERHOOD FIRES WITH A CRACKED CYLINDER HEAD, INCLUDING LOCALIZED FIRES NEAR THE TURBOCHARGERS. FORD IS NOT AWARE OF ANY REPORTS OF ACCIDENT OR INJURY RELATED TO THIS CONDITION.”
Mine never caught fire but, when it overheated the second time they found coolant in cylinders 1 &2 and had to completely replace the engine.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
09/20/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 1
So what exactly caused the coolant loss?
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
09/22/2017 at 00:02, STARS: 0
I thought dealing with bad throttle position actuators was bad enough.
bruh
"dogisbadob" (dogisbadob)
09/24/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 1
So it really is a real STI competitor :p
"CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever" (carsoffortlangley)
10/03/2017 at 10:57, STARS: 0
Poor Fiesta ST’s. Hot Hatch, hot hood.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
11/15/2017 at 21:28, STARS: 0
Doug’s response in that reddit thread was the single most reasonable thing I’ve ever read on reddit.