by "bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
Published 09/19/2017 at 21:59
by "bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
Published 09/19/2017 at 21:59
Tags: 2wheelsgood
; honda
; scooters
; cvt
; hondamatic
; hft
STARS: 9
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Say hello to the Honda Juno M85.
This is a scooter, with a far-forward-mounted flat-twin (170 cc in the M85, 125 cc in the earlier M80), and a hydromechanical transmission (which, it appears, does power splitting without planetary gears, somehow effectively using the pumps as if they were planetary gears? - I don’t entirely understand the torque flow, though).
Now, you might be familiar with Honda’s later hydromechanical transmissions - the Hondamatics used on some ATVs, and the Human Friendly Transmission used on the DN-01. Here’s an overview of the TRX500's Hondamatic:
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You may notice that there’s a computer-controlled shift actuator, though. Honda didn’t have that back in the 1960s.
So, this thing had a manual hydromechanical transmission. Basically, a manual power split CVT. A huge one, too, this is the engine and transmission - looks like that whole tunnel in the floor is full of transmission:
"arl" (arl1968)
09/19/2017 at 22:01, STARS: 1
Back when Honda stood for innovative engineering. Cool write up. Thanks!
"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
09/19/2017 at 22:15, STARS: 1
Dude that’s awesome!
Honda has always been my favorite motorcycle company. I love most of what they made in the 60s through early 90s, looks like they are finally getting back in the groove with the Grom and Ruckus
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
09/19/2017 at 23:40, STARS: 3
Yes they were. My late ‘50s early ‘60s designed Honda motorcycle is rocking a DOHC engine with torsion bars and magnesium engine covers.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
09/19/2017 at 23:56, STARS: 1
yea, the M85 is a bucket list bike. have had an eye out for one for... a few years now.
not cheap though: http://motorcycle.goobike.com/motorcycle/bike/stock_8200600B20150706001/
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
09/20/2017 at 08:44, STARS: 1
they must have been smoking a whole forest to come up with that.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/20/2017 at 08:53, STARS: 0
Also, I just realized...
This might be the first production vehicular use of a power-split transmission, period?
I know TRW had a planetary-geared power-split design in the 1970s, which got adopted by a ton of experimental designs through the 1970s and 1980s, and that basic concept saw production in 1996, in the form of Fendt’s hydromechanical Vario transmission, and then in the electromechanical form that TRW intended in 1997, in the form of the NHW10 Prius’s transaxle, but this was 35 years before that!
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
09/20/2017 at 09:33, STARS: 1
I had a Honda CX500 for a while. Transverse, water cooled, 90degree Vtwin; contra rotating transmission with front mounted clutch; shaft drive with the shaft in the swing arm; engine was a stressed member of the frame.
Plus that engine, it’d pull smoothly from idle to 10k rpm.
I always thought some engineer had a lot of fun designing it. It was pretty advanced for a bike from 1979.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
09/20/2017 at 10:37, STARS: 1
Didn’t early - as in 1950s - GM transmissions also use torque split, albeit not entirely in the sense that in the higher gears most but not all of the torque bypassed to the converter?
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/20/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 0
Good point, actually - I think all of the original Hydramatics had a torque-splitting path in higher gears - some torque going through the fluid coupling, some through the gearing? So, that would go back into the 1940s.