by "Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
Published 09/14/2017 at 12:51
by "Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
Published 09/14/2017 at 12:51
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So I am planning a move to Southern California with my Miata and am an avid snow skiier. This season I skiied 30 days in Vermont and will continue that trend out West for sure. Now most of my ski adventures will be a flight over to Salt Lake City or Colorado or Tahoe (via Reno) but I will of course be hitting up Mammoth Mountain often as well since its only a 5 hour drive away. There’s also a couple of local SoCal mountains I would love to try out if a particularly large snow dump comes through.
Anyways, I have always been a HUGE proponent of snow tires on all the things! This made sense while living in NJ and driving up to Vermont since winter time temperatures stay below 50 mostly for 3 months or so. However, once I get out to CA I will be living in much milder weather where even night time lows rarely get below around 40 in the dead of winter and day time is often still sunny and mid 70s (Ive seen 90 degrees in Feb though while visiting). So this is a no go for permanent snow tires in the winter unless I want to destroy a set every winter!
My only solution I assume is to just run an all season tire and put snow chains on it when the going gets rough up in the mountains. This will not be on my Miata by the way, I will get another vehicle more suited for the daily driving and ski trip tasks. But its not going to be a Unimog or something, it will be a hot hatch or a coupe that is normally on summer tires.
Just curious what other people living in warm climates do in winter to go to ski mountains safely. I suppose the other popular solution is have a 4x4 truck or a subaru with snow tires on it SOLELY for the purpose of heading to the ski mountain, but thats not practical for me.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/14/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 0
If Vermont skiing is acceptable to you, then the SoCal skiing will be fine.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
09/14/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 0
I would seriously consider running some snows on a front wheel drive car, rather than chains. Chains are a pain to put on, they are noisy and awful on anything but heavy snow pack. I suppose you could get away with good all-seasons and FWD most of the time, and if it’s really dumping snow, go for the chains.
I have had many different kinds of snow tires, and some really aren’t awful on dry, warm pavement. My current Michelins are more than tolerable as regular tires, for example.
Or get a wrx for your “hot hatch” and use good all-seasons; drive carefully when you have to traverse the snow. You won’t get stuck.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 1
Lol well I am definitely interested in the bigger stuff! But there are those freak storms that show up and dump two feet on Mt Baldy that would be worth the ~2 hour drive to check out for a day trip. I could care less what mountain im on as long as it has tons of real snow to play in.
Mammoth is real skiing though so I will be trekking up there more often. Especially with my Mountain Collective pass!
Vermont skiing can be VERY good if you know where to look and time it right.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
09/14/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 1
Out west if you have 2 wheel drive even with snow tires they might require chains. So just Chain up....My winter cars are AWD and run snow tires, and at R3 conditions if the roads open they require awd and 4wd to chain up.
"Nimbus" (nimbus1)
09/14/2017 at 13:16, STARS: 1
Good All Seasons and chains will work fine. Only really need extra traction for the last few miles heading up the mountain.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
The problem with the snow tires all the time is they get severely ruined in hot weather. Even in the couple of 75 degree days I faced with my Miata in Feb made the tires smell like burning rubber after a drive at lunch time. I could imagine driving 70 miles round trip for work in that every day would just be BAD. I could swap them on just for the trip, but Im still worried that making a 300 mile trip where ~200 are spent in 70+ degree weather would be a very bad thing.
I may be overestimating the temperature differences at altitude, but I have seen 90 in LA and ~50 in the lower elevation mountains before, so its certainly a valid concern.
But yeah a WRX or ideally a legacy GT or 9-2x aero would be my vehicle of choice, but I really dislike the SUBIE BRO stigma and the reliability of those cars. And either way, AWD isnt a cure all. I still would face about the same problem.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
Oh of course, any time chains are required, I will be doing that anyways. But I am more concerned about times where its kinda snowy and not yet a chain required location. Usually when its required, they have checkpoints where you apply them at I think?
The issue is I will be drivining in non-winter 90% of the time so having snow tires would be a poor idea unless I brought them along in the car, like you would pack snow chains. Thats mildly impractical though lol.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/14/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
Second set of wheels with snow tires, swap sets before and after as needed. It’s kind of annoying, but really it only adds 20 minutes or so per swap. The wheel cost is offset by not needing new tires as often AND having the best possible traction at all times.
Chains are awful.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/14/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 2
Most annoying thing I’ve seen around here. Driving in a foot of snow east can be no problem on snow tires, but a couple inches over the passes in Washington? No chains and you can get a big ticket, or even forced to turn around
"jonny11quest" (jonny11quest)
09/14/2017 at 13:28, STARS: 0
I have a similar question. What if I have a 1000mile roadtrip during spring that includes mountain passes. Let’s also say I have two sets of wheels with winter and summer rubber. Do I have to buy a third set of tires to throw all seasons on? Do I have to pack the winters and swap on the road?
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
09/14/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 1
To reiterate what tahoesti stated, my experience in California is this: They go to R2, there is never R1 or R3 (with the road open). R1 is just rain, no snow, I’ve never seen it happen and I only lived in sacramento for 14 years. So that means that if your car is 2wd you must have chains on regardless if you have snow tires or not. This being the case I would recommend a mid 2000's subaru impreza or forester with all season tires, not dedicated snows. Driving any car with chains on sucks, even with the good chains, you just can’t go very fast. 30-40 mph is scary on chains.
Here is a rundown of what the chain control rules are.
R1: Chains are required - snow tread tires allowed.
R2: Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel drive vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels.
R3: Chains are required - all vehicles - no exceptions.
R1 and R2 are the most common conditions. The highway is usually closed before an R3 condition is imposed.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
09/14/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 2
Yep. We have mountains and steep grades, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been stuck behind people who didn’t chain up, they just get stuck mid climb and start sliding backwards.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 0
Well those conditions dont typically apply until you are in higher elevations though right? If I could spend 90% of my drive on the chainless tires and just the last 10% on chains, it cant be that bad. I think that is what you are saying to do though?
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
09/14/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 1
It makes not sense, my reasoning is that chains slow people down and the chain installers and sellers are in a racket with Caltrans to rip people off.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 0
Oh yeah I know all about swapping tires quickly and often lol
Would be easy at my new place where I have a dedicated indoor parking spot. I am just concerned I will ruin my tires in the LA climate, even just on the drive to the mountain. If its 90 degrees, those tires arent going to make it out of the LA basin.
You have a good point though, im going to have two sets of wheels no matter what anyways. A summer set for the non winter months and a “winter” set of no-seasons anyways. But I could certainly make that winter set just dedicated snow tires if they would last well enough.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 1
Haha yeah that seems rather dumb. I dont really understand the point of chains when snow tires can be more than adequate. It makes sense to require them on cars without the snow tires though. It shouldnt really be dependent on drive wheel though either, I have made it through anything my Miata can plow through while seeing plenty of 4wd SUVs hopelessly stuck.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
09/14/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 1
They set up chain controls lower down before it even gets snowy. They will have chain controls in areas where it’s slushy and not sticking. I would count on driving on dry or wet pavement 50% of the time there are chain controls. As an example if driving over Donner on I80 they might put controls at Colfax and you will not encounter any snow until Blue Canyon 20 miles later.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
09/14/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 1
Come visit in the winter, when you see what and how the tourist drive you’ll see the need. I’ve seen FWD with studs and no chains get stuck climbing a hill and start to slide back (I see this weekly in the winter) Sure if they weren’t scared they’d have been going fast enough to make it but they weren’t.....Also in town, we don’t Salt or Sand, so it’s just ice. My one-mile commute has 1000ft of vert.....they call it Incline Village for a reason.
"Jarrett - [BRZ Boi]" (jarrettw)
09/14/2017 at 14:11, STARS: 0
I wouldn’t worry about the winter tires disintegrating on the way out of LA. Lazy people around here drive with winters all year round - It gets over 90F easily in summer. Just store them in the shade.
If you plan on keeping the beater around for a while, 2 sets of tires will cost the same in the long run as 1 set. I also heard that chains can break and destroy fenders? I live in Ontario and have never seen a set of chains. I’ve seen studs once - Neither are road legal in most areas.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 0
Ahh I could see how that is annoying. So ideally I want a car with AWD and snow tires. It really wouldnt be that bad, I would just have to swap tires immediately before leaving. Then i would just run summers year round otherwise. I will look like a yahoo swapping tires in my apartment like every other weekend, but such is life.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 14:28, STARS: 0
Funny you say keep the beater around. I plan to have my nice car be the one I take skiing. But that is because I dont believe in beaters. And the car will get washed and be kept in snow free LA 90% of the time anyways.
I will have 2 sets of tires no matter what since I will run summers in the summer time on both cars. I cant stand no season tires in the summer, even for just daily driving use.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/14/2017 at 14:36, STARS: 1
Haha I just realized what I wrote could be taken two entirely different ways. I’m not really a fan of chains when you’ve got good tires and practice in the snow, but then again I remember seeing the pictures you posted of your home/surrounding area last winter..... At that point I’d just hide the cars and buy a snowmobile!
"Jarrett - [BRZ Boi]" (jarrettw)
09/14/2017 at 14:45, STARS: 1
Ah, so your beater will be like my beater! Cared for and in significantly better shape than your “fun car”!
I agree with no-seasons in the summer. I have summer tires on both cars, and winters for the 3. No loss in fuel economy and it can makes the Miata-less drives a lot better.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
09/14/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 0
We always just did no-season tires on normal cars for local trips in the winter. I didn’t even bring chains because screw that. Usually the roads up to Big Bear and/or Wrightwood are dry and passable in any car almost every day of the year down there. The snow is mostly man-made at night and will be slush by the afternoon. In fact, it was so bad that I always rented a board (but used my own boots) because I didn’t want to destroy mine...
My buddy threatened to get a Tribeca just for our trips, but none of our cars ever had a problem getting up there, so it wasn’t worth it... If anything, we were more worried about water freezing because you do some straight up ghetto things with cars when you live in SoCal where it rarely drops below 55.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 15:33, STARS: 0
Plus I plan on putting 200TW tires on the Miata so I really wont want to waste money dailying it much. But if the daily car is fun enough on normal ~300ish TW summers, then I will be plenty happy limiting the Miata to weekends.
And yes my Miata will be valued at “scrap metal” in California, wayyyy too rusty to be worth anything there lol. So whatever I get will certainly be in nicer shape.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 15:37, STARS: 0
Well primarily I will be driving up to Mammoth. Only reason I would trek to the closer stuff is for a collasal dumping when I dont already have other ski plans or only have time for a day trip. No way am I missing the rare powder day within a 2 hour drive!
I am curious how it will work out with rentals though. I have a mountain collective so Ill be flying out to Salt Lake and driving from there quite a few times this winter.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
09/14/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
If you’re in Los Angeles, I can see that. I lived in San Diego, so both of these were 1.5-2 hours away. They weren’t awesome, but they scratched the itch.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 15:42, STARS: 0
From what ive read, those mountains should be pretty much like my skiing in NJ. Just not worth the 2 hour drive to me when it was 6 hours to Vermont. Now at least when I drive that distance, I will have MUCH more terrain to explore and generally more snow than I am used to.
Skiing Squaw in June was magical this year. I imagine thats rare but there was just SO much snow. I am super pumped for that in actual winter. The mashed potatoes later in the day were rough haha.
"DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By" (ducst3-red-1liter-standing-by)
09/14/2017 at 16:51, STARS: 1
The local rules have already made the decision for you. When it “dumps” around here, they require you to at least be carrying chains if you lack 4wd (some reason people who didnt grow up in snow think 4wd is a safe substitute for snow tires/chains). Makes me laugh growing up skiiing in wyoming vs here. Socal people and snow is a hilarious combination
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 17:07, STARS: 0
Well yeah I will need chains either way to at least carry with me. But more important is the tire choice going under it. If I use an all season, I can just swap once at beginning/end of ski season but if I use a snow tire, I will be swapping every time I go up there. Most of my skiing will be spent flying there so there is little value in keeping the snow tires on all the time for 3 months or so.
And if another season like this past one shows up, I may be driving up all the way through June for my skiing. But then at that point I can show up on summer tires and be fine.
"The Snowman" (the-snowman)
09/14/2017 at 19:24, STARS: 0
When I lived in CA I skied a lot and worked for years at a ski resort without ever having snow tires just a cheap Jeep xj.
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
09/14/2017 at 20:46, STARS: 1
My parents used to run winter tires year-round. They bought them in the spring or summer when they went on sale. They destroyed a nearly new set on a 3000-mile trip through the northern reaches of the Great Basin. Really don’t recommend driving on them if it’s hot, no.
I also run the same tires year-round on my Jeep and Lada. Many all-terrains come with winter performance (severe snow, snow-peak, whatever you call it) but have no issues with hot pavement. They’re not as good as a dedicated winter tire, but the Grabber AT2's got me by with no issues in a climate where snow is expected seven months of the year and not unheard of the other five. And many fellow Jeepers down south have had no issues getting the full 50,000 mile rating out of them.
Although finding AT’s in a car size may prove daunting, depending on what it is...
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/15/2017 at 07:54, STARS: 0
Well yeah, I imagine I could get by in anything. I managed just fine with my Miata in the snow here. So anything has ought to be an upgrade for winter duty. I will not have a dedicated 4x4 but a Subaru is sounding like a good idea.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/15/2017 at 07:56, STARS: 0
hmm good idea haha. I hadnt thought of that, certainly worth looking into if I can find them without needing to lift the car. It wont be my Miata at least so its certainly possible.