by "Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
Published 09/14/2017 at 11:32
by "Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
Published 09/14/2017 at 11:32
Tags: HURRICANE IRMA
; Generators
; Natural Gas
STARS: 1
I’m a Floridian, and got a direct hit from Irma. Power has been out since, and I’m going insane from watching my family suffer. I’ve got a 5KW generator, but it’s not nearly enough to keep my house running, by which I really mean my air conditioning.
Florida after a hurricane when the high pressure system moves in, is just about as bad as it gets. 90+ degree temps, 90%+ humidity and NO wind or rain. Add to that the fact you have days of manual labor cleaning up, and you have a special kind of misery.
I’m saving up to buy a 20KW system with a massive propane or natural gas tank (I have a natural gas line, so I may just go with that and get a standpipe and a tank as back up. Natural gas lines stay pressurized for quite a while.)
If you have AC, and you live in a hot place after a disaster, you are king. You can get pretty much any other supplies brought to you if you just offer up a couch to sit or sleep on for a few hours, especially if you can give them internet. As an aside, my Verizon LTE service held out through this entire ordeal, while everyone with AT&T have had virtually no LTE service.
The past 72 hours have been some of the most trying in my life. Between my kid, 90 year old grandmother, super-sad wife, and the fact that we are leaving THIS SATURDAY for a 10 day trip to Europe for our 10th wedding anniversary and still don’t have power back to prepare, has brought me to the verge of tears more than one.
That is until I saw the power company trucks pull up in my neighborhood for the first time this morning. At that point I dropped to my knees and wept like a baby.
I’m going to wait for a few months while supply of them rebounds, and I’m sure I won’t use it for another 10 years between storms, but does anyone have any generator buying advice?
"Azrek" (azrek)
09/14/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 3
Hi from StPete!
I had some friends camped out in my house using my AC and Wifi as they lost power and I didn’t lose anything...cept a fence.
I’d recommend waiting till after Jose passes before checking into the generator as you will likely get fleeced.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/14/2017 at 11:39, STARS: 1
Yeah, I’m not going to start looking until January, but as with any purchase over $2,000 I make, I’m going to research the shit out of this for a few months first. Fortunately, it looks like Jose is nothing to worry about.
"PotbellyJoe and 42 others" (potbellyjoe)
09/14/2017 at 11:40, STARS: 2
My parents put one in at their house due to nasty winters and a very remote location with overhead power lines. That’s not a great combination for reliable power delivery, or quick repairs. Being that they’re in their mid-60s and not looking to move anytime, nor are they getting younger, they went with a system that can run the house off the grid on an NG gas line as long as they have fuel and then they have a 3-day supply on a side tank (more if they pulse the system as needed, or shut off zones in the house to limit draw)
I would say, get one that does an auto-kickover so you don’t have to go out in a storm to start it. Make sure the intake is shielded (my parents’ one was initially not and it reeked havoc on the smoothness when the rain was too heavy or snow got too high) and then make sure it has an auto-cycle test that can be programmed to check the system works, say every 3-weeks, on a day and time that you’re typically home, so you know if there’s an issue.
They’re not cheap, but you get what you pay for in reliability, noise and convenience.
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
09/14/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 0
Maybe also look into diesel standby generators like Cummins or Detroit Diesel?
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
09/14/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 0
Glad you are doing OK, all things considered.
I know a few people with Generacs/Kohlers, and they are very satisfied. Not the cheapest thing going but will run entire houses. One thing to make sure of (the install company should know since FL) is that it should be specified for a salt air environment. And you should get an auto-cutover and make sure it does weekly cycling.
"$kaycog" (skaycog)
09/14/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 2
This is all so heartbreaking. My prayers are with you all.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
09/14/2017 at 11:44, STARS: 1
My grandmother in Houston had a Generac generator installed after some hurricane, I think Ike. It’s hard-wired and runs off propane. It starts automatically every month or few weeks to keep itself in running condition and automatically disconnects the house from the grid and switches on in the event of a power loss. Just make sure its installed in a safe and flood-resistant location. It won’t do you any good underwater.
"adamftw" (adamftw)
09/14/2017 at 11:44, STARS: 0
Whichever one you decide, make sure it does auto-start on occasion and you do regular fallback tests. A company I worked for a few years ago was big into Kohler for resi backups.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 1
Funny that you mention internet. During Sandy, I was in Hoboken NJ (high ground so I avoided all of the flooding) and was stranded there for 3 days due to the hurricane. During that time we were the one block in the whole city that did not lose power. However, we had no internet and no cell service at all during that time, so the power was USELESS. I would have gladly had no power but still had internet. Shit made me realize how reliant I am on regular internet access. I literally had no idea what happened during the hurricane or any of the damage or if my family at home at the shore was fine. Just being completely cutoff from the world while in a city was surreal.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
09/14/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 1
Go to Miami, & steal a twin turbo Lambo, then break into a tuning shop with a hub dyno & steal that. In your back yard hook up the hub dyno to the Lambo. Rewire hub dyno so it converts the Lambos power into electricity for your house. In order to survive in Florida, you think like Florida man.
"MikeP3" (MikeP3)
09/14/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 1
Considering how infrequently we lose power, I went the cheap route with a 4.5kW generator and extension cords for critical items (i.e., fridge, TV, internet, and PS4 lol.) If I needed AC, I would probably just buy a separate 220V generator for it with a manual switch. Two smaller portable generators are cheaper than one big permanently installed one. I’ve debated installing a fancier system but it’s just not worth it in my situation. The calculus could be different for you, however.
"Aaron James" (12sec5ltr)
09/14/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 0
I think they are a minimum of 10-15 grand aren’t they?
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
09/14/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 3
Not really advice for buying, but advice for owning/operating, make sure you power for a few hours every other month or so. Nothing is more frustrating than having a generator that you don’t know doesn’t work. Many, many moons ago while I still lived with my parents we had a massive storm come through that knocked out power for 3-4 days. NBD we thought as we had a 7Kw generator in the garage just for this kind of stuff. My father was out of town on business, but I knew how to set it up safely(throw the main breaker to isolate the house from the grid, throw all other breakers to avoid overloading the generator on startup then plug the generator into a specific 240v outlet in the garage and power it up). except it wouldn’t start. I could hear it was making compression, but it wouldn’t kick over. I called my father up and rebuilt a carb for the first time ever using directions from my father. my arm was shot and I had to disassemble the pull start so I could get a drill on the center bolt and just spin it directly. In total spent 2-3 hours getting the engine to run. Only to find out the generator side was broken and making no power.
My father got home the next day, we went out and bought the last generator within 50 miles. The time stamp on the receipt is within 5 minutes of when our neighbors reported the power getting restored. Ever since then he has started the generator once a quarter and let it run for an hour or so, and plugged something into it to make sure it was working. Coincidentally, my parents have never lost power long enough to need to fire up the generator since then. Based on empirical evidence, having a known working generator helps prevent losing grid power.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
09/14/2017 at 12:33, STARS: 2
Living in Houston and in Baton Rouge, I’ve been in your situation several times. We managed with a small generator to run the fridge, the TV, a couple of fans, and a light. It sucked, but each time was only a couple of weeks.
When considering a whole-house generator, ask questions about the fuel consumption rate. I have heard stories about people living like kings with their whole-house generator only to suffer like paupers when the natural gas bill arrived.
A 15kw system burns 240 cuft/hr ( source ). At $20/thousandcuft ( ballpark estimate ), powering a whole house costs $4.80/hour. If it runs 24/7 for two weeks, the gas bill will be $806.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/14/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 0
Certainly eye opening. However, i’d still probably consider it worth it considering the people that rely on me. My own discomfort has been bad, watching most everyone I love be miserable sucks bad.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/14/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 0
I’m a big believer in preparation warding off disasters.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/14/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 2
Yep but there a good second hand market when things aren’t going to shit.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/14/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
Solid point and something to seriously consider.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/14/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 2
I was a student at LSU during Katrina and was the absolute only person I knew with both powe and internet. Because we were next to a retirement home. There were a minimum of 15people in my apartment at all times counted 43 at one point. It was only 950 sq ft ....
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
09/14/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 2
We use these situations as teaching moments. Our kids have a better understanding of how to handle things during a disaster. Not only have we had to live under stressful conditions, I’ve taken them along on cleanup and repair efforts so they understand the full impact of disaster recovery. It’s also cool that my teenage son now knows how to do drywall.
It also helps that we go camping occasionally (less often now that my son no longer participates in Scouts). The kids have learned that we can have fun even if it’s miserably hot and humid outside.
Misery is often just a state of mind. Adversity builds character in more ways than one.
"Battery Tender Unnecessary" (carac)
09/14/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
They’re expensive but worth every penny when you need it. I live in the mountains and I just bought a 22kW Generac connected to a 500 gallon tank. Winter was light last year but when the power goes off here it goes off for days and sometimes for more than a week. It’s like insurance. You hope you never need it, but when you do, you’re glad you spent the money.
"Aaron James" (12sec5ltr)
09/14/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
I never thought about that, in a couple years might be able to get a nice discount if the weather stays away. Hang in there, Hopefully things get back to semi normal for you soon.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/14/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
Yeah my school had set up internet in a lecture hall for any students to use. There were at least 300 people in there at any given time leeching off the internet. Needless to say it was uselessly slow to bother with.
"RoRoTheGreat" (rorothegreat)
09/14/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 0
South Florida resident here, only lost power for a day.
My wife and I have been discussing a full house generator with a buried propane tank as well.
I have also been looking at what is dubbed a solar power generator for short-term power outages. Now, these don’t have enough juice on their own to power the AC, but you can daisy chain other deep cycle batteries to them and then recharge off of solar to do the job.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071D9K1BG/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1N1LANZUUX7MX&colid=VRBP0M0K5M1I&th=1
I’ve also been studying installing a solar panel system This would actually be the better option as long as the storm doesn’t sheer the panels right off of the roof. If you get about 10-20 panels and 6-10 deep cycle batteries you could easily power your house (depending on your square footage). This is just a starter kit.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
09/14/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 1
Built in standby generators are set up to fire up once a week for 15 minutes to keep them exercised.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
09/14/2017 at 14:17, STARS: 0
My dad sells/installs/services Generac standby generators, so I know a fair bit about them. If you’e got any questions, let me know. If I don’t know, I can find out.
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
09/14/2017 at 14:18, STARS: 2
yeah but you still need to take it for a walk down the the generator park so it can get in some playtime with the other generators.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
09/14/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
Question: Why natgas/LP and not diesel? Diesel would keep a lot longer.
Also, do you know your starting current requirement for your A/C? 20kW is a bit large for one house (unless your house is large. I’m assuming <2300 sq. ft.). Most central A/Cs can be run on a quality 10-12kW system that doesn’t have massive voltage drops when you get the current rush (e.g. you are looking at something like a Cummins Onan genset)
Check the Locked Rotor Amps on the compressor motor (if it’s not stamped, you may have to do some hunting), and you will want to get a genset that can supply at least that at 30% voltage dip. This will account for the maximum current needed to start the motor (i.e. a motor can start at a voltage up to 30% below rated voltage for residential use, with proportionally reduced current), and leave you a nice overhead for running other loads.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
09/14/2017 at 15:34, STARS: 0
Don’t forget the frisbee!
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
09/14/2017 at 15:40, STARS: 0
well I mean what kind of animal would bring their generator to the generator park and not bring a frisbee or tennis ball or something for it to fetch
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
09/14/2017 at 15:55, STARS: 0
Buncha savages I tells ya.
"Money Hustard" (moneyhustard)
09/15/2017 at 08:19, STARS: 0
I have an LP line to my house is the main reason, but I’ll be looking at diesel too. My house is embarrassingly huge and has 3 AC units. I figure if I am going to shelter a bunch of friends and family I’ll need the juice.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
09/15/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 0
Depending on how you are going to start up all those A/C units (running 1 A/C is bad enough, 3 is almost crazy), and things like refrigerators, you could need a larger diesel genset (50-100kW). You can get an LP or Natgas genset up to 60kW from the big names (like a Cummins Onan, or Generac). The LP and Natgas gensets will likely run at 3600RPM and the diesels at 1800RPM (slower can mean less noise).
A 5 Ton Trane Heat Pump would have a locked rotor current up to 134A (Rated Load of 26.4A, and this is a worst case scenario). Your generator would need to be able to supply this in addition to all other loads it’s serving. So if you have three A/C units, and plan to sequential start the loads, you would need 26.4 + 26.4 + 134 = 186.8A available at voltage drop. This roughly sizes out to 200A * 240V = 48kW just to start the third A/C unit on 240V .
If your A/C compressors are inverter driven, that lessens the current to start them tremendously (Some minisplits are inverter driven. I know some of the Mitsubishi units are that way). You could also look into a hard start kit to lessen the instantaneous load on the genset (you would just have to wait for the cap to recharge if you cut the A/C off)
(As a reminder, I am not a licensed Professional Engineer in Florida. Please consult with a Florida-licensed PE [like my father] that does standby power system design for full details)