by "davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
Published 09/13/2017 at 17:19
by "davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
Published 09/13/2017 at 17:19
Tags: goals
STARS: 0
Besides the obvious (tires, emissions), what are the changes along the path of street car to track car that make a vehicle no longer legal to drive on the road? I’m in Oklahoma, so there are no state inspections or emissions testing to deal with. And I get that stiffer suspension and competition brake pads would make street driving super obnoxious, but I’m most interested in what’s legal.
Roll cage w/ no helmet seems like it’s clearly a bad idea, if not illegal.
If you were modifying a car for semi-regular track work (lapping, not real racing) and occasional (maybe once or twice a week) street & back road driving, how would you set it up?
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
09/13/2017 at 17:25, STARS: 1
Depends on what’s getting modified whether the EPA has a frowny face, the NHTSA, the state, or other controlling authority. Because the state tends to be the lowest common denominator, they are quite likely to give zero shits about things that would make the EPA apoplectic - but the EPA aren’t normally in the business of going around telling people that they specifically are not street legal.
So, a lot of things are “street legal*” which you could almost certainly get away with, leaving level of deviation both a gamble and a matter of choice. For example: a race steering wheel might be pissing in somebody’s cheerios, but if that’s what you want? Eh.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/13/2017 at 17:26, STARS: 0
I have nothing to add except that white M3 is sexy in all the right ways.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
09/13/2017 at 17:29, STARS: 3
Adjustable suspension. That’s numbers 1-3 for me on a dream track priority build.
Being able to dial back the shocks on the street would a great way to have a dual purpose car.
Then shifter, seats, lightening through removing “unecessary” items. Maybe even going full “Vette-kart” like on Roadkill. I wouldn’t do a cage unless I need it for a track or need it for structural integrity. (And don’t use a harness unless you have a cage).
But as far as keeping it legal, keep the headlights, taillights, brake lights, windshield wipers, licence plates, and that’s most of it unless your state requires something specific like fenders. Non-DOT tires might never get noticed, and if you don’t have inspections you can remove emissions equipment (I wouldn’t reccomend either, but it’s not exactly “illegal” unless you get caught.)
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 17:34, STARS: 0
And the guy can drive!
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"Sovande" (sovande)
09/13/2017 at 17:40, STARS: 1
Coilovers, tires, wheels, brakes, sway bars, end links, control arm bushings, intake, exhaust (downpipe if there is a turbo),intercooler, tune, and some way to data log.
You wanna buy mine?
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
09/13/2017 at 17:40, STARS: 3
You shouldn’t run harnesses without a cage and you shouldn’t be driving in a cage without a helmet. There’s harnesses out that that claim to be DOT legal, but it’s not a smart idea.
A supportive seat and a normal 3-point seatbelt with a CG-Lock is going to be plenty of support for track days.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/13/2017 at 17:47, STARS: 0
You basically described my current street/track/rallycross build. The adjustable suspension is fantastic.... Except for one thing. When you have the car low enough to be competitive on track, there’s only so much wiggle room for rebound and compression adjustment. Too soft and you’re bottoming out on the street, rubbing, hitting your oil pan... So make sure you get good at adjusting ride height to take full advantage of adjustable coilovers!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 17:50, STARS: 0
My car already has dynamic suspension (EDC), so that’s a plus. Possible I’d swap it out for something more focused eventually, though.
I’ve heard the same about harness without a cage. I have a Schroth Quick-Fit that I haven’t used yet, but they’re designed for the street and DOT approved.
Since my car is a 4 door, I probably wouldn’t end up stripping out too much weight (I’d leave in the rear seats for now - only 43 lbs) - too much fun sharing my enjoyment with my kids!
At 3700 lbs, it’s really not the best candidate for this, but the chassis and drivetrain are plenty capable, and I love the idea of taking a car I’ve daily-ed for so long and slowly turning it into a real athlete.
"Toby F., Manager" (itsmefromhr)
09/13/2017 at 17:51, STARS: 2
My only stipulation for people who modify their daily driven street cars is to adhere to three rules: maintain legal emissions, a resonable db level, and road worthiness. I don’t want to smell and inhale your fumes, don’t want to hear obnoxiously loud exhausts, and don’t want to wait for people to inch their way up (because they’re too low) a reasonably sloped driveway or speed bumps on public streets/in traffic. Beyond that, I don’t care about how you modify your car. Of course my stipulations are absolved for properly modified cars for racing and off public road use. Your choice, your consequences — whether postive or negative.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 17:53, STARS: 0
Haha! Thanks for the offer.
Good list.
"Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow" (chriskf)
09/13/2017 at 17:53, STARS: 0
Beat me to it.
Safety systems are pretty much an all-or-nothing game. OEM stuff will be fine for track use. If you do end up modding this stuff, I wouldn’t do anything less than a half-cage, seats, harnesses, and a HANS. At which point it’s not really conducive to street driving. Perhaps if you’re only ever driving it to-and-from events, but even then it’s better to be trailered.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 17:54, STARS: 0
I’ve actually got one of those CG-Locks around here somewhere...
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
09/13/2017 at 17:57, STARS: 0
Why not harnesses and no cage? Legit question, most of the kit cars I like are designed with that or for a cage and no helmet
"Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow" (chriskf)
09/13/2017 at 17:59, STARS: 1
Mine plan, once the FR-Slow become more of a track than autox car will be:
Suspension
:
-Shock/spring combo (Coilovers will happen in the long run, but the stock suspension or a good shock/spring setup will get most people pretty damn far. When I do get coilover I will likely be spending $3k+, so I’m not doing it until I REALLY need or want them.)
-Alignment bits: Camber plates and lower control arms
Engine
:
-Oil cooler
-Full exhaust (Header back) with an EcuTek tune
Wheels/Tires
:
-Either 17x8 with 225/45 or 17x9 with 245/40.
Safety
:
-CG-Lock with the rest of my safety systems OEM
I really can’t think of much beyond what’s listed above that I’d need to turn my car into a solid track day toy.
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
09/13/2017 at 18:00, STARS: 0
It’s about safety. In the OEM setup, in the event of a rollover, you are designed to slump down while your roof crumples. If you are wearing a harness, you don’t slump, so you and the roof crumple together. This is why you need a harness and a cage. And if you have a cage you need a helmet to protect your head from hitting the cage.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 18:03, STARS: 1
Nice! Seems like a great platform for the track.
Light makes right!
"sony1492" (sony1492)
09/13/2017 at 18:03, STARS: 1
Depends on the car but overall(assuming money is no object); LSD, bigger brakes, sticky tires, different rims, good quality lowering springs, koni or bilstein shocks, sportier oem seats, plenum gasket matching, head porting, slightly larger exhaust that retains catalytic converters(so the o2 sensors are happy and fuel trim dosent get messed up), poly suspension bushings in the rear(if rwd), solid or poly subframe bushings, steering rack spacers and or modified knuckles, roll bar(but not a cage).
"feather-throttle-not-hair" (feather-throttle-not-hair)
09/13/2017 at 18:17, STARS: 1
My Co-worker drives his track car to work every now and then. I mean, its not his daily or anything, but its a hard core track car.
you always know when he drove it, because his steering wheel will be sitting at his desk.
"WRXforScience" (WRXforScience)
09/13/2017 at 18:50, STARS: 1
In Oklahoma, as long as you have the required lights, insurance, and a license plate, you are legal to drive on the street.
I track my BRZ in Texas (it is my only car, so it pulls daily duty, track duty, and autox duty), you need to start with brakes. Pads and fluids are a must for all cars and a BBK is needed on some (not as many as you’d think). You are also going to want to get an alignment that keeps you from ruining just part of your tires (you want to evenly ruin all of the tire at the same rate).
Next, tackle cooling. Oil cooler for sure, maybe upgraded radiator and or fans. You aren’t setting records, but you don’t want to take cooldown laps or come in early because your car can only do a couple of laps at a time without overheating.
Once you know what you are doing and/or become serious about a specific series or class, then and only then should you start with performance mods. I’d recommend starting with data acquisition so you know if you are actually improving.
It’s best to spend your money on seat time, not mods. I recommend starting with autox, it is the best way to learn car control. The OK Region SCCA is run by some good people, get to know Meredith Evans and WB Seiphus (husband and wife combo who drive a kickass ESP or CAMC Mustang). If you are closer to Tulsa, the NEOKLA Region SCCA has a number of people who can show you the ropes (I haven’t race with them since 2009, so I can’t really help).
You’re probably going to end up racing at Hallet or coming down to play with me at Motorsports Ranch Cresson or Eagle’s Canyon Raceway in Decatur. ECR is the only power course and is the toughest on brakes.
Your priorities should be:
1. Safety
2. Reliability
3. Fixing things that break
4. Convenience, make getting on the track as easy as possible
5. Reliability
6. Performance (start with suspension, then add power)
If you aren’t starting in something light and cheap, go get an NB or NC Miata, used FRS/BRZ, E30 BMW, or something else light and cheap. Light cars use fewer consumables and can stay on track longer. Heavier, higher horsepower cars just cost more money. There are few things in life more fulfilling that getting a point-by from a car with more than twice as much power and/or costs $100k more than yours.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
09/13/2017 at 19:37, STARS: 0
So this wouldn’t necessarily apply in a self assembled car, only in a retrofitted passenger car designed to crumple, correct?
"Sovande" (sovande)
09/13/2017 at 19:50, STARS: 1
I have everything on the list except coilovers. I had them but decided to go with Eibach springs and koni fsd shocks. Probably not good enough for the track, but they work well for street and aggressive driving.
"StudyStudyStudy" (jesterjin)
09/13/2017 at 20:05, STARS: 1
I mean depending on your state the actual definition may differ. I’ve heard cops call cars with intakes race cars, I’ve seen people throw a wing on a pedestrian car and call it a race car.
My understanding and the understanding between friends is a car goes from street to race car when it is trailered to events out of necessity for the most part.
Very aggressive alignment settings, very low treadwear tires, no creature comforts, things that physically make the car difficult or very uncomfortable to drive on the street.
Legally, there would have to be a lot missing or a lot of blatant violations. Noise would be one, glass I think might be another, lights, although hand signals would still be legal in that regard.
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
09/13/2017 at 20:54, STARS: 1
I can’t listen to the sound but I can hear the engine singing in my head. That was an epic drive.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
09/13/2017 at 20:55, STARS: 1
Well one of the fastest drag week cars is registered and plated in Michigan so....
Pretty much anything goes here
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 23:00, STARS: 1
Lukester & Devotec are two of my E9x M3 heros!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 23:00, STARS: 0
Nice!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 23:03, STARS: 0
Nice list!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 23:03, STARS: 0
Love it!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/13/2017 at 23:09, STARS: 0
Sweet ride!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/14/2017 at 09:06, STARS: 0
Thanks for all this - I’ve already been to Hallett several times with different groups and MSR-Cresson for one weekend with The Driver’s Edge.
I’ve definitely got better fluid and pads, but that’s really all I’ve done so far. Haven’t had an issue yet with overheating, even with many sessions on pretty warm days - seems like my M3 is good there.
I’ve considered a FR-S/BRZ/86 as a platform for a fun/track car, but that means either adding another car (challenge convincing my wife) or replacing my M3 (not sure if I could give her up...). Also, as a dad with 3 young kids, my E90 works really well for double-duty.
"WRXforScience" (WRXforScience)
09/14/2017 at 09:29, STARS: 1
An E90 is a great car, consumables will be more expensive but if you aren’t doing more than 5-6 events a year that really isn’t much of an issue. I wouldn’t add a car unless something expensive breaks on your M3.
You might have to look into a trailer and tow vehicle, or make sure you have roadside assistance and towing so AAA will tow your M3 home from the track (you are probably going to want to start using dedicated track tires/brake pads for the track and you’ll either have to change them at the event or tow the car). A small Harbor Freight tire trailer might do the trick.
I’d recommend hitting up the M3 forums and finding some E90 track guys who have already found the weak links. Learn from the mistakes and difficulties of others (it’s cheaper that way). The car killers at the track are generally cooling and oiling. Sounds like you are good on cooling, you might want to make sure that your M3 has a baffled oil pan and/or won’t have any issues with oil starvation at the track (this is probably the most common way to blow an engine at the track).
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/14/2017 at 09:51, STARS: 0
Considering all the other stuff our family has going on, 5 or 6 events per year would probably be on the high side for a while (sadly). Hopefully as the kids get older I’ll be able to ramp it up more.
I really prefer the “arrive & drive” mentality instead of towing. I know that limits me on tires and pads, but for now, I’m willing to compromise for efficiency. I’m currently on PSS and StopTech Street Performance, and my ability hasn’t passed their functionality yet (best time so far was a 1:37 at Hallett - plenty of time to find!). I can get a full set of tires into the back of the car if I do decide to get a dedicated set with more focused rubber.
The forums are great and full of guys with their full track setups and experiences - a wealth of knowledge, for sure. Thanks for the note on the oil pan baffles - found this: https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-motorsports-oil-pan-baffle-bmw-s65-p3001.aspx
My car is a ‘08 I bought 5 years ago. I love the idea of slowly improving it and changing it into to a more & more focused sports car over my time with it. So far, it’s just been tires, tune, exhaust, fluid, pads, shift knob & pedals. Maybe in 5 more years it will be what I’m envisioning!
There’s a shop down by you called Texas Track Works - I’ve considered bringing my car down to them at some point and letting them set my car up for exactly what I’m going for. Rennsport, here in Tulsa, also is very highly regarded. Need to start saving my pennies for that day!
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
09/14/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 0
Does it really need to be competitive on track? Just make it fun and predictable, unless you really are competing for track times.
But I guess I enjoy street driving more than track driving simply because I do far more street driving. Tracks are very special occasions for me.
"WRXforScience" (WRXforScience)
09/14/2017 at 10:33, STARS: 1
I know Texas Track Works, I had them do work on my previous car (2010 WRX), they are good people. Vorshalg Motorsports is a great place to look, they’ve worked on plenty of E90's. You might want to try to talk to Ken Orgeron, he autocrosses and E90 M3 and has a Time Attack E46 monster of a car. He is one of the fastest guys I’ve ever met and he is willing to help out (he is usually an instructor at BMW events).
StopTech’s aren’t good enough for serious tracking, you will need to step up to a more aggressive pad. Ferodo ds2500, Carbotech XP 8-12, or Hawk DTC 30-60. I also like the Project Mu HC 800+. You are going to start cooking those StopTechs as you get faster.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
09/14/2017 at 11:15, STARS: 0
Thanks for the tips! Greg Smith Racing is another guy/shop I follow down there. His E92 is the record-holder in TT3 at Hallett and MSR Houston.
I know that the StopTechs I’ve got are barely good enough for what I’m doing on track, but have been willing to spend the money replacing them more often than to start eating into my rotors more quickly with a more aggressive pad. I’m guessing a BBK is in my future at some point.