by "HPoz - I like Honda Fits and I cannot lie" (hpoz54)
Published 09/12/2017 at 21:56
by "HPoz - I like Honda Fits and I cannot lie" (hpoz54)
Published 09/12/2017 at 21:56
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I know there’s not any real definition for any of these terms and this is honestly pretty silly but I’m curious what Oppo thinks the distinction is. Cost and exclusivity are definitely factors obviously but there’s some cars where I don’t know why I think of them as one or another.
Some of my completely unjustified thoughts:
Current Ferrari range are all supercars except the California which is just a high-end sports car and the LaFerrari which is a hypercar
Both current Lambos are supercars
Vipers are supercars, Corvettes aren’t (even though numbers-wise the Z06 is pretty comparable)
Koeniggsegg, Pagani, Bugatti, etc. are hypercars obvs
the GT2 is the only 911 that I’d call a supercar, the rest are sports cars
the i8 isn’t quite a supercar, but it’s close
"Phyrxes once again has a wagon!" (phyrxes)
09/12/2017 at 21:58, STARS: 1
To add to your list the McLaren P1 is a hypercar but the 700 and 500 series are supercars as I would put the price point of even the 500 series out of the sports car range.
"66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash" (66671)
09/12/2017 at 22:02, STARS: 0
The lines are blurry but labels can be put on cars that are pretty similar in performance potential and target market I guess. The only one that has a definitive definition is megacar, used by Koenigsegg for cars that have a megawatt of power or more (somewhere between 1300-1400 hp).
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
09/12/2017 at 22:04, STARS: 2
My unjustified though (with only reading like 25% of the post)
Sports car- Focuses on driver engagement/involvement. ie Miata, BR-Z, Corvette, etc.
Super car- Focuses on spec sheets and that’s what the buyers are concerned about and will never tap the full potential of the car. Lambo, Ferrari, etc
Hyper car- Why would you even bother building it. The only people who can get 5/10ths out of it are race car drivers and they already get to drive race cars, so why would they drive this compromised hybrid POS.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
09/12/2017 at 22:06, STARS: 0
I think its the level of performance offered by that car.
"Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner" (gavinharter30)
09/12/2017 at 22:07, STARS: 1
Sports car: anything that is fast, cheap and you can have fun in
Supercar: basically the same except more exclusive and the worries of breaking your car over every pothole
Hypercar: very,very fast car. Normally over $1,000,000
"Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief" (flynorcal)
09/12/2017 at 22:13, STARS: 0
I think it mostly comes down to oil.
If it takes oil you can buy at Autozone, you’re not driving a supercar. Castrol 10w60 says “designed for supercars” right on the bottle. Getting an oil change at Jiffy Lube isn’t an option unless you bring your own oil and trust the tech to pull your undercarriage aero off carefully and reattach it correctly. There’s also gearing. If can pass every car on the freeway, comfortably, in third gear and have a total of seven gears to choose from, it’s a super car.
Hypercars require another magnitude more.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
09/12/2017 at 22:13, STARS: 0
Price perforance and how common it is. Like the viper, even tho about even with the upper Corvettes, the corvette is everywhere so it drags down it’s catagory rating
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
09/12/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 0
I have to admit, I’ve kinda given up trying to define supercars and hypercars. I just can’t find a satisfactory place to draw the line. They might as well just be meaningless buzzwords for top-of-the-line sportscars.
Speaking of which, you can find some measure of sportiness in some of the most mundane cars nowadays, and with such blurred lines, the easiest thing I can think of to help set apart what makes a car a dedicated “sportscar” would be passenger capacity. I know that may sound largely irrelevant to the car’s performance (aside from the extra weight), but it’s just so impractical nowadays for a car to have only two seats, that manufacturers typically reserve that kind of setup only for genuine sportscars.
There are some significant exceptions, though. Like city cars! Plenty of those have only two seats, but they’re certainly not sportscars. But I still think that the whole two-seater limit thing is still a good place to start. If you can set apart all the two-seater cars, it shouldn’t be too difficult to weed through those and decide which ones qualify as sportscars.
Of course that leaves out a whole bunch of VERY sporty cars that do indeed have rear seats. What about them? Should we use “pony car” for the two-door ones, and “grand tourer” for the four-door ones? I dunno, I haven’t really gotten that far in thinking about it...
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/12/2017 at 23:39, STARS: 0
“Pony car” refers to cars in the vein of the Mustang and Camaro, I’d argue - moderately sized (and optimized for two occupants, but with back seats that can be used in a pinch), inexpensive, powerful coupes.
“Grand tourer” is similar to a “pony car”, but is very much not inexpensive, and handling is also a consideration. Back seats are also not necessarily present in a GT. (Note that pony cars can handle, but it’s not a requirement.)
Very sporty four door cars are sports sedans.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
09/12/2017 at 23:41, STARS: 0
My thoughts? cost. Super and Hyper denote a separation, whereas sports only denotes type. There is no definitive lines. Sports would be any car currently considered “affordable” up to and including corvettes and (non turbo)911s. I don’t believe I have ever heard of someone calling a corvette a supercar, however the very similar viper is due to it’s perceived cost, and relative rarity. Hypercars is a new term. Because the Mclaren p1, LaFerarri, and Porsche 918 had performance and relative costs well in excess of the traditional 200-400k ferrari/lamborghini/whatever supercars, hence the new designation.
For instance, the new camaro zl1 is capable as some supercars, however it is not one, due to price.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/13/2017 at 00:01, STARS: 1
So, there’s a hierarchy here.
Hypercar: A sports car that pushes the limits of technology for the sake of performance, with no expense spared. Or, it may not push the limits of technology, but through superlative performance, it gets there anyway.
Supercar: A sports car designed primarily around high performance, and although it’s not at cost is no object levels, it’s certainly exotic, and exclusive. The technology is modern, often beyond that of normal cars, but it’s nothing actually new , unlike in hypercars. Craftsmanship is also required, though, to be a supercar - while luxury isn’t necessary, quality (in subjective terms) is. Mid-engine is likely, although not necessary.
Sports car: A car designed primarily around performance driving. (Note that a sports car can itself not be very high performance, but it needs to be designed primarily around driving it in a high performance manner - see the Miata.)
Grand tourer: A coupe that blends high performance with luxury and a degree of practicality. Some cargo space is necessary (where it’s not required for sports cars), back seats may be present (although typically they’re quite small if they are). While sports cars (including supercars and hypercars) tend to be used for a weekend blast through a canyon or a track day, grand tourers are optimally-suited to a cross-country drive, but can also fulfill the role of a sports car.
Pony car: Think grand tourer, but affordable, and with an emphasis on straight-line performance. Luxury will be removed, and if necessary, handling will be degraded to make it affordable (less exotic materials adding weight, as well as simpler suspension designs).
So, going to your original examples...
The Ferrari 812 Superfast and the GTC4Lusso are grand tourers. The LaFerrari is a hypercar. The 488 is a supercar. The California is more of a sports car, yes. And then you have the F12tdf, which is... arguably a sports car made from a grand tourer (the F12berlinetta).
Lambo’s lineup, yeah, supercars.
I agree on Vipers but only just, and the Corvette is on a line somewhere between grand tourer and sports car (while the Z06 gets into supercar performance, it doesn’t have supercar exclusivity - it’s a supercar slayer, not a supercar itself).
I’m not so sure I’d call Pagani’s products hypercars... they’re playing in the high end of the supercar space IIRC. Koenigsegg gets in largely through superlative performance. Bugatti as well, really.
I’d agree that the 911 GT2 is a supercar, but the lower 911s... some of the GT3s are sports cars, but the rest are actually grand tourers.
The i8... it has a back seat! It’s leaning towards the grand tourer side of the GT/sports car line.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
09/13/2017 at 00:03, STARS: 0
Is price relevant for categorization, though? I’m having trouble with that. I think I’d prefer to group cars based on design and capabilities rather than cost.
"Elumerere" (elumerere)
09/13/2017 at 01:11, STARS: 0
Interesting. While reading this, I was curious as to where my MY ‘99 996 fits in. It’s full leather optioned, but also with lsd, sports suspension, etc. and it’s quite a good distance from a luxury feel. It does make for a fantastic road trip car though.
Maybe the base 911 changed during the 991 era from sports car to GT?
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/13/2017 at 06:23, STARS: 1
I’d argue that the 911's been flirting with the sports/GT line since at least the 1980s - there’s some damn luxurious 911 Turbos from that era, and it’s always been “the practical sports car”.
"Sovande" (sovande)
09/13/2017 at 08:24, STARS: 0
Dick size of the owner.
"Elumerere" (elumerere)
09/13/2017 at 12:34, STARS: 0
Yeah, the 911 is a special case. Daily driver sports car with quite the showing on a track without modifications.
And yes, practical it is. I’ve transported furniture in it, drove 7000 miles cross country, go grocery shopping and even offroad it now and then.
Truly a marvel.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/13/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 0
Actually, I just realized where my classification puts the 911, even though it’s hilariously wrong.
If a 911 isn’t luxurious, it’s technically a pony car.
This means that I need to refine my definition of “pony car” to include something that means “not the 911". Front engine, maybe?
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
09/13/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 0
We’ve seen these discussions before. I think it’s too hard to pin down, is a constantly moving target, and is full of exceptions. And certainly the supercars of last decade are slower than today’s sports cars.