by "TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
Published 09/11/2017 at 13:21
by "TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
Published 09/11/2017 at 13:21
No Tags
STARS: 34
However some of us can’t forget it.
The day that it occurred, my sister and I were pulled from school early. My parents explained to us what terrorism was and told us-not showed us-what happened. I didn’t really know what to make of it, but it must’ve been very difficult on my parents.
I always have mixed emotions on 9/11. It was one of the worst tragedies in American history. Close to 3,000 lives were lost, whether they were airline passengers, tower occupants, or those who ran into the still-burning wreckage knowing they may not come out. The bravery of the men and women who risked their lives to save other echoes to this day.
And it was on this day, 16 years ago, that a whole religion was vilified. On this day 16 years ago, Muslims in this country were no longer fellow citizens, they were enemies. They were no longer friends, they were targets. They were no longer Americans. 3,000 lives were lost on American soil, but close to 200,000 lives were lost in Iraq. In two years we’ll have soldiers in Afghanistan for something that happened before they were born.
Six years ago, my father and I were walking around Seattle when a group of thugs started pestering and bullying him for his brown complexion. This is a man who served this country in the Army Corps of Engineers for nearly 30 years, has been to Iraq and Afghanistan, and even suffered an explosion in 2003 which damn nearly tore my family apart. I was thankful it didn’t escalate. Shortly after 9/11, Muslims, and individuals who were not even Middle-Eastern, were killed by lunatics who suddenly became afraid of brown skin.
I am going to receive so much shit for this, and I don’t care anymore. Shit away. Muslims were vilified and despite Muslim leader around the world and the overwhelming majority of peaceful Muslims speaking out against terrorist acts , this country still can’t get its act together and decide that we are not the enemy. My fellow Muslim brothers and sisters have been targeted ever since and because only a handful of radicalized Muslims did something bad.
Bin Laden won.
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Disclaimer: Am I disregarding the heroism during the 9/11 attacks? No. What happened happened, and the people who ran into the buildings did so to save the lives of their fellow human beings. I will never match the heroism displayed on that day, and I honor their legacies as a fellow American, and as I have every year ever since I realized the gravity of the situation.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 13:34, STARS: 5
The varying response to different terrorist groups is baffling and sad.
Al Qaeda attack: Better hunt down anyone brown.
Weather Underground attack: Let’s give Bill Ayers academic tenure.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
09/11/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 6
Bin Laden did not win. Yes, there are shitheads who cannot see past their bigotry. A lot of them, in fact. But we can also choose to remember the way in which this tragedy brought muslim and non-muslim alike together for the common good. Radical haters and bigots only win when we let them.
I do not diminish what you and your family suffered because of the ignorance of others. I suspect it’s similar to what Japanese Americans suffered in internment camps during WWII. Don’t let it turn you bitter. The America that turned on you and yours is not all of America, not even most of it. The rest of us stand with you resolved to make sure that Bin Laden did not win, and never will.
"jimz" (jimz)
09/11/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 8
I couldn’t believe how many people (elsewhere in the country) believed stories about how the streets of Dearborn were filled with people celebrating the attack (there weren’t, I was there.) Someone I know elsewhere worked for a local newspaper in Dearborn back then, and they were getting calls from all over the country- including “journalists” (from major networks!) who should have known better- about the “riots,” the “thousands dead,” and the “Muslims taking over city hall and killing the city leaders.” They were like “what in holy fuck are you talking about?
IMO lazy “being first is more important than being correct” journalism does nothing but stoke these kinds of things, and it’s incredibly insidious because some of them don’t know they’re doing it.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
09/11/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 4
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It’s not baffling or sad for anyone who is a POC. It’s something we understand the reasoning behind all too well. And it’s infuriating.
In case my comment isn’t clear enough: it’s racism. Plain and simple.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
09/11/2017 at 13:45, STARS: 9
For a country of immigrants founded by people seeking to escape the injustices brought upon them, a country whose most recognizible icon reads
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
For a country that proclaims this, it can be surprisingly violent and intolerant towards others of different race and religion. Sometimes I’m incredibly proud to be an American citizen and sometimes I’m embarrassed- and it kills me to think that these symbols could become symbols of intense intolerance and racism.
"random001" (random001)
09/11/2017 at 13:46, STARS: 1
Maybe we should just outlaw religion. Far as I can see, it hasn’t done a whole lot of good for us humans.
"McMike" (mcmike)
09/11/2017 at 13:47, STARS: 1
I always have mixed emotions on 9/11.
You know who else has mixed emotions about 9/11?
Gary Condit.
Gary was the center of speculation about the disappearance of intern Chandra Levy. It was morning, noon, and night Gary Condit, Gary Condit, Gary Condit. Did he sleep with her? Was she pregnant? Was she killed because she was pregnant?
Then 9/11 happened. I can’t help think that as he was sitting at home watching the day unfold a little smirk surfaced for the quickest of moments as he thought to himself... “Oh thank god....”*
*Not that Mr Condit was celebrating the lost of life on US soil, but merely welcoming the new headlines and focus of the media.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 13:47, STARS: 1
Baffling doesn’t mean I don’t know the reasons why.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
09/11/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 9
Well said. I do recognize the Americans who haven’t turned against Muslims. However, that does not diminish the fact that there is now an aura of deadly fear and xenophobia as a result, one that continues to affect the lives of millions of Americans. After Trump was elected, I felt genuine fear of being outside.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
09/11/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 6
The only way to fight the hate is with love.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 8
It is my opinion, and I believe it is shared by people who are smarter than I, that the end game for radical Islamic terrorism is a global religious war to bring about the end of days. Yes, there are plenty of small-minded people who are buying what al Qaeda and ISIS are selling. But it’s not all. Bin Laden and his ilk have not won, at least not yet. All people of all religions and races and creeds must rise above the base emotionalism that terrorists and bigots espouse. I think the reaction to Charlottesville should be heartening to you. I won’t sit here and say that I understand what it feels like to be targeted for my religion. But I can tell you that for every four or five people who feel emboldened to confront you there will be many, many more who do not feel this way. The bigots are on the wrong side of history. Like a dying fire, it may flash once or twice before it burns out.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 13:53, STARS: 2
Well, that was out of left field.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
09/11/2017 at 13:55, STARS: 2
Disaster response is amazing. It takes only one person doing something bad for a whole community to step in and make things right. That’s often one of the things we overlook.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
09/11/2017 at 13:59, STARS: 8
I’m of two minds on your last sentence.
If his point was to inflict terror on the American people (and Western society in general), then yes, bin Laden won. We are still afraid, 16 years later.
And, in utterly unsurprising fashion, some people (too many people) use the fear of terrorism as a handy crutch for their racism, which you and your family have seen firsthand.
But it wasn’t a total win. And his “win” can hardly be attributable to him at all. People always look for excuses to justify their hate. Bin Laden is just the latest.
But the fear and racism he’s given others permission to wear like badges of honor does NOT define this country or our spirit. And I say that despite the increasingly inflammatory rhetoric of the Trump administration against Muslims (Muslim Ban), Latinos (Border Wall and repeal of DACA), POC in general (the reintroduction of stiff penalties for drug offenses), and poor people and POC in general (a list too long to list here).
For as loud as the bigotry in this country has become, so, too, has risen the multitude of voices who not only deny such hatred, but actively fight against it. Some, to the extent of losing their lives.
Like the men in Portland who died protecting Muslim women on a train.
Or Heather Heyer , who died protesting literal Nazis.
Or the 25 Houston-area mosques that instantly opened their doors to all in the wake of Hurricane Harvey, instead of making excuses ( like one “Christian” church ) that the City of Houston hadn’t asked for help so that’s why it didn’t open to storm victims.
I know for a fact that people here in Texas were quick to praise the mosques for their generous hearts and spirits in helping out their fellow Texans.
I’m not going to tell you to not be angry, HB. Because I know exactly how it feels to be unjustly stereotyped, vilified and hated because you’re a member of X category, or people make Y associations about you.
Be angry. Be furious.
But use that anger and that fury in love. Use it to combat racism and bigotry wherever you see it. Use it to be unapologetic in that fight.
And use it to help you recognize when you see bigotry happening to other people, in other venues that are far different than your own personal experience. Because speaking out about one form of bigotry while joining in on the jokes of another (or remaining passive) does no one any good, least of all you.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 13:59, STARS: 1
It’s noteworthy that our own petty secular arguments are hampering our response to this particular brand of terrorism. See the examples in this post, Russia’s desire to keep a navy base in Syria, etc.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 14:02, STARS: 0
I wonder if these are all ancillary benefits that al Qaeda et al didn’t foresee, or if they knew we’d respond this way all along. Anybody who thinks that these terrorists are ignorant towel heads underestimates them at his own peril.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
09/11/2017 at 14:06, STARS: 1
“Know(ing)” and understanding are two very different animals, For Sweden. And based on several other conversations I’ve had with you, I don’t think you’ve quite grasped the visceral understanding of racism that POC have.
I’m not saying that as a dig. Those conversations with you have been frustrating, to say the least, but I hope that someday you’ll actually really get what I and others say when we’re talking about the racism we’ve seen or experienced, especially the more subtle nuances therein.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 2
I think Al-Qaeda thought the USA would just lob a few more cruise missiles, like they did after the African embassy and USS Cole bombings.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
09/11/2017 at 14:12, STARS: 2
All religions kill. Read a while back about a Hindu massacre , and every Hindu I’ve ever known has been nonviolent. I gave up the man-in-the-sky-who-cares-about-you shit long ago, right after my Bar Mitzvah. This collective hallucination needs to end.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
09/11/2017 at 14:14, STARS: 6
I truly believe that those haters who think that their time has come because of Trump’s election will find that they are woefully mistaken. Maybe the fact that they are coming out of the shadows will allow us to show them for the cowards that they are and stop their imagined ascension.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 14:14, STARS: 3
I agree that I have less understanding of facing the effects of racism than many. That doesn’t bring me closer to understanding why someone would think racism is a strategy work adopting. Hence my bafflement.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
09/11/2017 at 14:16, STARS: 3
This is truly my hope (and belief TBH)- for everyone’s sake. It’s what I tell myself repeatedly to get me through the day sometimes.
"Cash Rewards" (cashrewards)
09/11/2017 at 14:17, STARS: 5
Don’t have much to add, but this is a good post. Yours is a perspective you don’t hear often on this day, but is terribly important.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 14:22, STARS: 1
Then they must have been thrilled when Bush invaded Iraq instead of Afghanistan.
"McMike" (mcmike)
09/11/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 0
I just remember 9/10 as the day I thought the Condit coverage would never end. It was just as bad as the extensive, non-stop MH370 coverage, but with less things to speculate about. It was maddening.
Then in early 2002, I realized that Condit hadn’t been on the news in a few months, and I had that thought.
I’m weird.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
I think Bush invaded Afghanistan first.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
09/11/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 4
Is there something you fear? Like heights, maybe? Something you some times have an occasional exposure to (how many times are you on the side of a cliff with no guardrail, for instance?), but not a lot?
You grew up in a seaside town, where everything is flat. You didn’t grow up in a mountain valley where you’d have to walk near cliffs and ravines and hills and such all the time. You’re fine on a set of stairs, but not on an open hillside. Stairs have rails, and smooth, even steps. You know stairs. You know what to expect from them. Each step upwards is exactly like the step before.
The hillside is scary. There’s loose rocks hidden under the grass that could easily cause you to turn your ankle and lose your footing. You could plummet to the ground and hurt yourself.
You pick your way up the hillside carefully, looking down at every step, with a lump of fear in the back of your throat the whole time. You’re halfway up the slope when you look up and see some local children bounding up the hillside, effortlessly. They weave in and around the largest boulders. They pick out a zigzag path up the hill, without ever once looking down. They grew up here. They know the hill. They know the safe route up where they won’t twist their ankles on loose stones.
You, who has never been exposed to hills, fears the hill and fears the height. The people who grew up around them? They have no fear.
Racism is like that. More often than not, it’s fear of the unknown. It’s hate bred from that fear. And some of the most racist people are those who live in highly segregated communities. Places where everyone looks like them, so it’s easy to be afraid of and hate anyone who looks different.
But even in more cosmopolitan places, you’ll find racism. Look at those people closely, and you’ll often find that they segregate themselves. They don’t have any friends who are POC or immigrants or who don’t speak English, for example. (Obviously, I’m referring to the US here).
Then there are the more subtle examples of racism. The “I have a black friend” or the “My mom is Latina” examples. The ones who use their minimal or partial exposures to diversity as a shield, as a faux inoculation against racism. “I can’t be racist if my friend, Bob, who’s black, comes to watch the Patriots games at my house.” Except, yes, you can be.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
09/11/2017 at 14:31, STARS: 2
Working in aviation, I do fear hijackings.
"jimz" (jimz)
09/11/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 2
well, we have that whole “in part of the country it was legal to own other people until 1865" thing hanging over us. The people who founded this country have always been OK with people who looked like them.
Everyone else...
"jimz" (jimz)
09/11/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 1
honestly, I think the whole religious war notion is a cover story. You have people in a region of the world who have lived under various oppressive governments at points, and at other points have had to live with other countries’ constant meddling with their countries making things worse. So you get older people who are angry as hell at the West, and a bunch of disaffected young men with poor prospects who are ready, willing, and able to lash out as violently as they can. I’ve said elsewhere that it doesn’t matter if it’s what’s going on in the Levant, or terror attacks in Europe; religion may have been what lit the fuse, but it’s not what turned these guys into sticks of dynamite in the first place.
"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k)
09/11/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 4
I’m a brown immigrant but am not Muslim. I’m also probably fortunate to an extent to have one of those colonized last names that makes me sound less threating or “foreign”. I grew up in a country with a surprising amount of racial and religious diversity. We had so many problems, sure – wars, corruption, all that stuff nut ordinary people still got along just fine with each other for the most part. My parents also spent a significant amount of time in the middle east – as poor college grads working in Iran (they were there through the revolution), to my dad being an engineer in Saudi Arabia through the 80s, and my mom working in Jordan/Iraq for much of the late 90s/early 00s to be able to give my brother and I a better future by affording an education in the US. As a woman living alone out there working in the ME, travelling to Iraq often (she worked for the UN there throughout GWB’s war, including when the UN embassy in Baghdad was bombed) – from coworkers to drivers going out of their way to make sure she felt welcome and safe…those are the real Muslims, just like you and your family that deserve attention.
From all the Muslim friends I had growing up, to all the
people my parents have known over the years and the amount of warm welcome we’ve
received as a family – I just wish more people in this country got the
opportunity to see more of the world, walk in another person’s shoes, and see
what life is like for others. Yes there are rich and poor but for the most part
we all want the same thing. Wars and extremists only win by getting in the way
of that human desire we all have, by dividing us. Especially during last year’s
elections I felt ashamed seeing the mud that innocent Muslims were being
dragged through; seeing this but being powerless to help in any real way
outside of speaking up – and I know that
exists to this day. Especially thinking back to all the wonderful people I know
who happen to be Muslim – the level of injustice associated with them being
equated with horrible people, it is sickening.
There are bad horrible people from all cultures and
religions who use whatever they can to work towards whatever their sick and
messed up objective is. Equating innocent peaceful people with those groups is
letting those groups win and this country needs to step up its game and do a
much better job at not letting that happen. Would help if our President were a
better role model in doing this.
Hang in there, hope you and your family keep fighting the good fight and I hope we as a country are able to get over this fear of “others” that is driving so much hatred today.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 0
I’m weird.
You said it. ;) But yes, I remember the hysteria over the Chandra Levy case. But does anybody remember this?
On March 3, 2009, D.C. authorities obtained a warrant to arrest Ingmar Guandique , an illegal immigrant from El Salvador . He had been convicted of assaulting two other women in Rock Creek Park around the time of Levy’s disappearance. Prosecutors alleged that Guandique had attacked and tied up Levy in a remote area of the park and left her to die of dehydration or exposure. In November 2010 Guandique was convicted of murdering Levy; he was sentenced in February 2011 to 60 years in prison. In June 2015, Guandique was granted a new trial. On July 28, 2016, prosecutors announced that they would not proceed with the case against Guandique and would, instead, seek to have him deported. (Wikipedia)
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 1
I think you are right about the foot soldiers who are fighting for the cause of radical Islam. And until you address the root problem of why these young men (and women) are turning to terror, you will never stop it. However, I still believe that the leaders of this fundamentalist sect have their eyes on a much larger endgame. And our methods of fighting it are entirely ineffective. You can’t destroy an idea with bombs.
"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k)
09/11/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 3
Don’t have to look too far in to the past. Just look at what the Rohingya Muslims are going through in Myanmar right now. Being from a fellow Buddhist country that has seen its own (albeit much smaller) level of “Buddhist extremism” – it is sickening (especially given what Buddhism is supposed to stand for), and damn right that every religion goes through stuff like this. More so I’d say it’s evil people hijacking a religion to justify their own evil doings. I’m not one for religion, but persecuting innocent subscribers for the evils of a powerful and radicalized sects is disgusting.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/11/2017 at 15:05, STARS: 0
You are correct, he did. We did sent troops to Afghanistan in October of 2001. But the all-out invasion that was carried out in Iraq should have taken place in Afghanistan where the bad guys were hiding (as well as Saudi Arabia, but that is a much more complex issue).
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
09/11/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 2
People should be free to believe any nonsense they want, but when you inflict it on others or use it as an excuse to kill, that’s the end of the discussion.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/11/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 0
Amen
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
09/11/2017 at 15:32, STARS: 0
yep - I hate even talking about it. I still just get angry.
"Berang" (berang)
09/11/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 0
9/11 was, relatively speaking, not much compared to the shitty acts shitty people around the world commit every fucking day, every fucking year, every fucking century, in the name of their shitty religions.
If there is one generalization I feel comfortable making without a hint of sarcasm, it is that religions are all bullshit. All of them.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/11/2017 at 16:40, STARS: 2
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/11/2017 at 17:09, STARS: 2
You know, I’ve thought about this a lot as a longtime agnostic, and I actually think religion has done a lot of good. Religion is responsible for most of the ethics we still hold dear today: don’t steal, don’t injure/kill, be kind, be generous, help the innocent and unfortunate. Pretty much everything that’s (almost) universally considered right and wrong comes from religion, and they’re values that every major religion instills in their believers. Religion also instilled an extra incentive for those who needed it, those who wouldn’t do those things just because they’re the right thing to do. (Do good and you’ll reside in heaven for eternity, etc.) It’s people taking it too far, using religion to divide instead of unify, insisting that only they were right and anyone who felt differently needed to join or die, effectively weaponizing religion that’s the problem.
"random001" (random001)
09/11/2017 at 19:26, STARS: 0
You may not be wrong, but your supposition is that these things, morals, ethics, and general decent behavior only exist due to religion. I would propose the counter argument that religion has conscripted these things as a way to enforce the masses to fall in line. I can’t think of a time in history where religion wasn’t a tool used by a select few to create a weapon. Radical Islam, Ultra Right Wing Christians, the Crusades, The Inquisition, Viking conquest, Eqyptian rule. I mean, pick one that doesn’t have a strong root in control and war against any opposing force, and I might be able to accept your argument.
On the other hand, religions, every one of them, are a study in complete contradiction. God loves you unconditionally, as long as you abide by these certain conditions and don’t believe in this other god. Or are Black. Or Middle Eastern. Allah is great and loves all. Kill the Infidel. Abuse your women. The more I learn, the more I believe religion is a human construct to bend human nature and inherent qualities into a force of complete control. Not a one I’ve studied in has been able to effectively answer for the contradictions present in their own holy texts with anything but hand waving and some form of “have faith”.
Even religious people (not all, but most I’ve known) wage some form of war on anyone outside their faith. The need to convert other people, “save” them, boils down to a form of psychological warfare. Guilt trips, threats, promises of love or pain. These are effective tactics, but it doesn’t make them right.
I think we can just be good people without the enticements, and if some can’t be good people, well, pretending within the psychologically protective shell of a religion doesn’t really make a difference, now does it? That is what leads to radicalization.
"Brian, The Life of" (familycar)
09/11/2017 at 19:47, STARS: 1
Ok fine but can we at least tax them?
"Brian, The Life of" (familycar)
09/11/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 1
I’m really grateful that you’re a part of this community
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/11/2017 at 20:14, STARS: 1
I didn’t mean to imply that religion created those morals and ethics, but it did codify them and, again, provide enticement to follow those moral standards. As for the issues, I put that squarely on the flaws of humanity. If we weren’t so imperfect that we warp religion into some form of idiotic battle cry we wouldn’t be the type to need religion to remind us to be good in the first place. We are why we can’t have nice things.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/11/2017 at 20:14, STARS: 1
I’m okay with this
"random001" (random001)
09/11/2017 at 20:22, STARS: 1
I agree. It just feels like it’s too easy to use one’s religion as an excuse, or as a way to excuse certain behaviors.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/11/2017 at 20:23, STARS: 0
Absolutely
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
09/11/2017 at 20:28, STARS: 0
Thanks, Brian. That means a lot to me. :)