by "Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
Published 09/07/2017 at 14:02
by "Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
Published 09/07/2017 at 14:02
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STARS: 2
I have successfully installed a Schroth 6 point harness into my Miata! Adjusting the belts and stuff is kinda difficult but I got it mostly right and the test drive felt quite good. Then the stock seat belt still works just fine so the drive to work the next day was normal without using the harness.
Drilling the floor mounts and finding places for the lap belts to mount was relatively easy, just took some time to figure out. The eye bolt threaded right in for the drivers side mount so it easily holds both belts there. The trans tunnel side had a nice hole for the O2 sensor wire and the floor holes were simply drilled as close as possible to the frame rail and roughly under the seat.
The shoulder belts I currently just wrapped around the roll bar but I am trying to find a better way to do this. May have to get a harness bar welded in or somehow find a bolt in one (Boss Frog is out of production, so I can only get them second hand). This is my biggest headache with my setup. Boss Frog says I can do it around the roll bar but did not describe exactly how to do it safely. Schroth instructions say shoulder harness cannot be twisted so I may be SOL without a horizontal bar.
Overall a much easier project than I thought it would be. Took a total of like 3 hours with following no instructions of any sort and just kind of winging it. It feels amazing being latched in nice and tight. And as long as I adjust the mirrors correctly, it does not negatively impact seeing out of the car and driving around. I can still reach the radio and everything I normally could while driving. Excited to test it out at a track day eventually but at least I will have an Autocross at Pocono on Saturday as a first real world test.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
09/07/2017 at 14:28, STARS: 0
1.) You are in Jersey, right? If so, good move keeping and using the stock belts. People do get tickets for aftermarket restraint systems.
2.) Not trying to be a dick but that shoulder harness setup is not acceptable.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/07/2017 at 14:34, STARS: 0
The shoulder harness setup is scary... That set congrats! Those seats grip pretty well with the stock belts, I’m curious to hear how big of a difference the 6-point setup makes
Oh and have you tried it with the pads? I’ve been hoping I can get my harness to work with the lower cushions haha
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 14:37, STARS: 0
Yup, legality and daily driving comfort meant it was silly to delete the stock belt. No need for it outside of the more spirited street driving anyways. And I have a CG lock for the stock belt so that gets me held in well enough generally.
Yes, I know the shoulder setup is not right. Thats why I am trying to find a solution before a track day. “Get a harness bar” is not really a good solution since thats not that simple. Not being a dick at all, I am well aware of it lol.
I am not exactly sure what the requirements are though. Most track rule books just say “harness is mounted securely” and everything else I know is hearsay on the internet.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
09/07/2017 at 14:41, STARS: 0
Post a shot of the bar from the back. You may be able to move the Mazdarati bar up slightly and fit tubing across the deck. Or maybe fit a harness bar across as-is as long as the harness angle stays within tolerance.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 14:44, STARS: 0
Oh it definitely makes a difference! I only did a quick drive because of the aforementioned sketchy shoulder belts. But I feel like I cemented into the car with that harness and seat. The harness definitely fits with the cushions in place but I know with a helmet on I only JUST pass a broomstick test. So to get the generally required 1-2 inches I will have to run without bottom seat padding.
I havent found a better way to mount the harness shoulder belts though. I am trying to find a boss frog bolt in harness bar but I am also looking for alternative methods. I havent been able to find concrete info on this. Damn boss frog going out of business...
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
How would I move the cross bar up? That seems like a major modification.
I was thinking about buying a hard dog harness bar and then just getting it modified to fit. I believe the issue is just the diagonals are in different locations so they are slightly different angled bars. But it may be about the same cost to just get a custom bar welded in as well. Welding is black magic to me so I have not thought much into it.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
09/07/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 1
I was thinking you’d cut out the diagonals and shorten them to keep the same angles. Then run tubing across the back.
Shoot them an email and see if they want to take it on, and for how much. Since it’s not in an enclosed car it’s not as shitty to do. IMO this is not a major modification at all.
"just-a-scratch" (just-a-scratch)
09/07/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 0
My guess is that modification of the roll structure you have is going to be stronger and perhaps more economical. Any cage builder should be able to do this. That bar is a bolt-in right? If so, you could mark the elevation for the harness bar on the verticals and bring it to a shop for modification. Just make sure you double check the rulebook and harness installation recommendations that your design complies.
"Aremmes" (aremmes)
09/07/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 0
You want the
Hard Dog bolt-on harness bar
. It bolts to the seat belt towers in place of the wind blocker and doesn’t require any extra holes beyond what Mazda drilled there at the factory.
"Needmoargarage" (needmoargarage)
09/07/2017 at 15:51, STARS: 0
Uh...this is really unsafe. You absolutely need a harness bar at the right height and distance behind the seat. The seat also makes that OEM seat belt unusable. Not sure what is going on with the anti-submarine belts as well. Why do they come around the front of the seat as opposed to being passed through the hole?
It should be noted that a six point harness isn’t really designed to work in conjunction with an airbag and lack of racing safety equipment. You are essentially holding your body still while your neck and head are free to continue travel. There is supposed to be stretch designed into an OEM seat belt to allow a slower rate of deceleration to avoid injury. All bets are off when you change belt and seat geometry.
Not trying to be too critical, but I’ve seen this stuff go really bad. Seat looks nice...should hold you in place way better than the stock one.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
09/07/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 2
Cheapest solution, assuming you don’t find a bolt in bar, will be having a harness bar welded on. Look for a performance shop in your area, they should be able to do the job for you, and they’ll know more about proper bar geometry and harness setups in general than your random welding shop.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 15:57, STARS: 0
The problem is that it isnt a hard dog roll bar. So it wont fit exactly. Ive thought about modifying a hard dog harness bar but it may be the same cost to just weld in a bar.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 0
Thanks for the contact, was looking for a fab shop so this definitely works!
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
09/07/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 0
Yeah, not sure what part of NJ you are in. I’m sure there are race shops all over. These guys are super talented, but may be more $$ and a drive for you.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 16:03, STARS: 0
I’ve had the stock belt in for a while with the Bride seat, as long as the belts are properly run through the holes it functions just fine with this seat. I see no safety hazard for street driving that way.
The anti sub belts are going through the sub belt hole in the seat, not around the front. I think those are just the tightening straps that I pulled down to get them out of the way. I could also feed them back through the hole but I didnt want to get them tangled in there. The bottom four belts are mounted properly and within spec. I know I did that part right at least.
I agree this sort of shoulder belt mounting for the harness is not safe, hence why I am looking to get a bar made. But one step at a time! I would not use the harness for street driving, hence why I kept both belts.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 16:06, STARS: 0
Yep thats the current plan. Trying to find a local shop to do it without charging me more than the roll bar costs lol. I think I could just modify a hard dog bar to fit. That may be the cheapest option, since it just needs to have some edges cut to fit, it mounts to the same spots I am pretty sure. It might be a little more modifying than that though.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 16:09, STARS: 0
Yeah its bolt in but no way in hell would I take it out of the car lol. Getting those damn bolts to line up and not cross thread was the worst. Ideally id look to get a hard dog bolt in harness bar modified to fit or just get one welded in at the same height. It simply needs to be as close as possible (vertically) to the holes in the seat.
"Aremmes" (aremmes)
09/07/2017 at 16:10, STARS: 0
How does it not fit? The Hard Dog harness bar doesn’t attach to the roll bar. The back braces on your Boss Frog roll bar fall aft of where the factory wind blocker would fit, which is where the Hard Dog harness bar drops in. So it seems that you have plenty of space to fit the harness bar without modification.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/07/2017 at 16:14, STARS: 0
I mean people could have no idea what they are talking about on the forums, but I’ve been led to believe it wont fit without modification:
https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=227562
It appears to work eventually though so I figure its the cheapest solution. If I dont need welding, I can even do that mod myself probably.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
09/07/2017 at 23:44, STARS: 1
Any race shop should be able to either modify a hard dog haresd bar or add a cross member to either the main hoop or rear legs to get you a bar for your shoulder harness and have it at the right level so that the harnesses are within an allowable angle (10 degrees, iirc) of horizontal when you’re strapped in.
Getting belts set up by yourself is difficult. We always did it with the driver in the seat with the harness latched and in the right position and a helper spending some close, personal time in the car with them setting up the straps.
On the straps, you’ll want to revise how you have them looped through 3-bar adjusters. They should be done so that they are looped back around the front of the adjuster to lock down the adjuster and prevent them from loosening. It should be done like this:
So that it looks like this when done:
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/08/2017 at 08:59, STARS: 1
Yeah looping through those adjusters is always so confusing. Thanks for the pictures, those definitely help. I have a few shops I am going to try calling to get some price quotes. First person I talked to said 3-4 hours at $100 an hour plus materials. So that was not gonna work for me haha. I think modifying the hard dog bar would be the cheapest route for sure. Bethania garage makes a modified one specific to the Boss Frog but it will take 2-3 weeks to make a batch. That is the route Im planning to go if shops dont quote something more reasonable since its only $200 for that option. I just will have to wait a bit to get it. But it will bolt right in.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
09/08/2017 at 09:35, STARS: 1
No problem. It’s through the adjuster the first time, around the bar/through the hardware, back through the adjuster going over the first pass, then looped around the front and back through to lock it down.
3-4 hours sounds a little high, I bet someone will come in lower. It might help to talk to a shop in person so they can see what exactly you’ve got, and then have a better idea of what it’ll take to do. If not, that Bethania garage harness bar sounds like the way to go.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/08/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 0
Yup, just placed an order for the Bethania bar. It was $225 shipped and will bolt right in no issues. So that should solve my problem for good! Idk why Hard Dog and Boss Frog bother making the bars without a harness bar since who would ever run a bar without one??
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
09/08/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 1
Just bought a bolt in one. Apparently hard dog also makes a boss frog bolt in one but it costs more and takes a little longer to ship. And they dont advertise it. But once I called them, they sold me that harness bar for $225 shipped. I should have just gotten a blackbird roll bar, it would have been like not that much more in total lol.