by "bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
Published 09/04/2017 at 17:54
by "bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
Published 09/04/2017 at 17:54
Tags: DD Track Burn
; chevrolet
; bel air
; chevrolet bel air
; nissan
; nissan skyline
; infiniti
; infiniti g35
; DAF
; DAF 55
; CVT
STARS: 1
And no, you can’t burn them all. “Track” is also a loose term, you can do whatever motorsport you want with it... but you have to keep the transmission.
And, why “weird CVT”? Well, none of these three cars have a conventional CVT - in one way or another, they implement a CVT in weird ways, and a different way for each one.
Finally, all three of these cars were intended to be at least somewhat sporty, and all are RWD.
In increasing order of weirdness, and cylinder count:
1971 DAF 55 Marathon Coupe (at least I think this is a Marathon) - weird because it used
two rubber belt CVTs
(video of an older model with the same transmission design) - one for each rear wheel - and didn’t have a differential. Sure, they may be conventional CVTs, but using two of them instead of a differential isn’t conventional at all!
2002 Nissan Skyline 350GT-8 (we know it as the Infiniti G35, but the 350GT-8 specifically had a CVT that we didn’t get) - weird because it uses a toroidal CVT , rather than a belt CVT:
1957 Chevrolet Bel Air Nomad, 283 FI, Turboglide (I’d be very surprised if the pictured car actually has Turboglide though) - weird because the transmission is not actually a true CVT, but is rather three torque converters in series (also worth reading this ):
"Phyrxes once again has a wagon!" (phyrxes)
09/04/2017 at 18:00, STARS: 1
DD the nomad and flip a coin to decide the other two.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 18:04, STARS: 0
Go ahead and flip that coin.
Fun fact: The Marathon trim of the DAF is the rally-inspired trim.
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"Phyrxes once again has a wagon!" (phyrxes)
09/04/2017 at 18:06, STARS: 1
Looks like it’s the daf, Viking funeral for the skyline I guess.
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
09/04/2017 at 18:09, STARS: 3
Daily the Nissan (CVT or not, it’s a modern car so it’s gonna be most livable)
Track/Rally the DAF because that setup is just too odd to burn
Burn the 57 and make a bunch of Hawaiian shirt wearing old men at a car show sitting in a lawn chair in front of their own 57 Chevy cry.
"Kiltedpadre" (kiltedpadre)
09/04/2017 at 18:10, STARS: 1
DD Nomad because you’d have to be a sick bastard to burn it and it wouldn’t be much fun on the track
Track the DAF because it would be the most ridiculous to see at any motor sports event
Burn the Infinity because it loses by not being as interesting as the other two to me
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
09/04/2017 at 18:14, STARS: 0
Two CVTs instead of a diff. Now that’s bizarre.
"boxrocket" (boxrocket)
09/04/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 1
Daily the G35WTFBBQ.
Track the DAF.
Burn the nomad.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 18:19, STARS: 0
But it works and effectively gives you a limited slip effect. Basically, the CVTs just change gear ratio to compensate for the difference in wheel speed, while still delivering torque to both wheels.
(However, the DAF 66 went to a differential, because apparently the CVTs had trouble compensating for low speed tight cornering.)
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 0
The interesting thing is, despite it being by far the slowest car... it’s also the only one that was specifically marketed on the basis of its motorsport participation, being a trim inspired by DAF’s rally 55s.
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
09/04/2017 at 18:38, STARS: 0
Oh I absolutely get why they did it. That doesn’t change my opinion that a lsd is a better solution
"BvdV - The Dutch Engineer" (dutchengineer)
09/04/2017 at 18:45, STARS: 1
DD Daf, because it is a compact car, ideal for shopping and such.
Track Daf, because why not. (Make sure to add a midmounted Cosworth engine, and change the CVT unit such that one belt drives the front acle, and one drives the rear axle.)
Cruise Bel Air Nomad.
Burn Skyline.
"fintail" (fintail)
09/04/2017 at 18:51, STARS: 0
Would an already-droning VQ drone even more with the droning tendencies of a CVT?
I don’t think I have ever seen an early Turboglide car in person, I wonder if more than a few survived.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 18:56, STARS: 1
I see what you did there.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 19:00, STARS: 0
Looks like it bullshifted and pretended to be an 8-speed automatic to avoid that, at least in some cases:
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And, yeah, the Turboglides and Flight Pitch/Triple Turbine Dynaflows are not popular, and weren’t reliable back in the day...
"fintail" (fintail)
09/04/2017 at 19:32, STARS: 0
Maybe it would have been too much constant roar otherwise. That noise, fun for a few seconds, but not something I want every day, day in, day out.
My fintail has MB’s first in-house automatic (they used B-W units before), which uses a fluid coupling in place of a traditional torque converter. It is an unusual setup, I think maybe similar to a Dynaflow variant. From what I have found, they are not always the smoothest shifters (esp low speed downshifts), but are very durable, I have heard of very few failures.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 19:39, STARS: 0
The Dynaflows were all about using torque converters instead of conventional automatic shifting, for what it’s worth. The original Hydramatic had a fluid coupling, though...
"fintail" (fintail)
09/04/2017 at 19:42, STARS: 0
Ah, Hydramatic, that must be what was on my mind. I wonder if they were especially durable as well.
"fhrblig" (fhrblig)
09/04/2017 at 19:47, STARS: 2
DD the Nomad, track the Daf, and burn the Skyline. I’m burning the Skyline mostly because that’s an EXTROID, right? I don’t know much about them but I do remember something about them not functioning properly in cold temperatures and I live in a place where winter is a thing.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 19:51, STARS: 0
As I understand, the Hydramatics were fine other than some nasty shift quality issues, and the original and Twin Turbine (which, the original was also twin turbine) Dynaflows were also fine other than being quite inefficient (especially in earlier versions).
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 19:52, STARS: 1
That is an Extroid, yes. Wonder what makes them not work right in cold temperatures, the fluid getting too hard, maybe? (It uses a fluid that under high pressure solidifies.)
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 19:55, STARS: 0
Yeah, although at the time (and note that the DAF 600 went into production in 1959), there were all sorts of ways to try to get limited slip-like functionality.
I mean, this was an era where Detroit Lockers, or the ZF twin freewheel setup that VW had available, were thought to make sense - and those couldn’t adapt to cornering under power, they’d lock up when you applied any power.
"fintail" (fintail)
09/04/2017 at 19:56, STARS: 0
The fintail can have clunky downshifts, but upshifts are mostly fine, especially if you let off the throttle a little when you know the shift point has arrived. It is also set up for economy, with 4th gear coming on around 25 mph. A little low for not a huge displacement engine. 1st gear is by manual kick down only, with 2nd gear start (the engine will also start in gear). I shift it manually a bit, as it adds speed, and the mechanical fuel injection behaves better when the engine is revved a little.
Which were the rope drives? Thankfully MB didn’t do that.
"fhrblig" (fhrblig)
09/04/2017 at 19:58, STARS: 0
That sounds logical. I mean, it does get cold in Japan too, but I think I remember reading in Car & Driver many many years ago that that was the reason they never sold them in North America.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 20:02, STARS: 0
Those were the Pontiac Tempest, which used either a 2-speed Powerglide variant (2-speed, torque converter) or a 3-speed Roto-Hydramatic (3-speed, fluid coupling, based on the original Hydramatic).
Also, technically, Mercedes has done a rope drive - the SLS AMG and the AMG GT use one.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 20:08, STARS: 0
Well, “cold” in Japan and “cold” in huge parts of North America are completely different beasts - if your car doesn’t work in far northern Hokkaido, it sucks, but it’ll probably get warmer soon. If your car doesn’t work in those conditions in the US, that’s most of the far northern states dead for weeks or months.
"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
09/04/2017 at 20:38, STARS: 0
Was it the Daf that could go equally fast backwards or forwards?
"fintail" (fintail)
09/04/2017 at 20:51, STARS: 0
Roto, that’s it. I suppose I could have googled it, thanks L)
I hope the MB unit fares better, haven’t heard any horror stories.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
09/04/2017 at 20:57, STARS: 0
Yep!
"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
09/04/2017 at 21:15, STARS: 0
I didn’t think there were many left around because of that exact reason.
"Spoon II" (Spoon_II)
09/05/2017 at 00:10, STARS: 0
Sweet mother of pearl, there was a DAF truck! http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C888924
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
09/05/2017 at 03:32, STARS: 1
DAF has been, and still is to this day, a major truck builder. For markets outside of North America I guess. Their car branch was bought by Volvo in the mid 70s, the rest still lives.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
09/05/2017 at 05:52, STARS: 1
DD - DAF
Track - Nissan
burn - the wagon
"Spoon II" (Spoon_II)
09/05/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 0
That’s true, I was just surprised that there was a little adorable pickup truck
"RT" (rt-p)
09/22/2017 at 05:46, STARS: 1
Daily Chevy, it’ll be fun to cruise in.
Track Daf, because reverse racing ftw.
Burn Nissan, as it’s the car least worth preserving here.
