by "ImmoralMinority" (araimondo)
Published 08/31/2017 at 12:26
by "ImmoralMinority" (araimondo)
Published 08/31/2017 at 12:26
No Tags
STARS: 10
There is an ongoing movement to erase Columbus Day, and re-brand it “Indigenous People’s Day.” As an Italian-American, this makes me very sad, because, while I understand the modern re-casting of Columbus as a villain, this day has a context for us that is not about the man who discovered/invaded the New World.
Most Americans come from immigrants who were discriminated against when they came here, and Italians are no exception. Italian-American immigrants embraced and appropriated Columbus Day as their day of cultural pride, especially in larger cities like Boston, Philadelphia (where my family was), and New York. The day was not about celebrating Christopher Columbus, it was about celebrating our culture and our right to be here. Now that we are no longer considered or treated as an oppressed minority, this history gets shoved to the side in the name of restorative justice.
But this history should be discussed and remembered. “White privilege” is a slippery concept, when many “white” people faced discrimination as immigrants. By the way, my people weren’t even here until 1920, so don’t try to blame fucking slavery on us. Italians were considered “colored” under Jim Crow laws, and were treated accordingly. Perhaps if we talked more about how European immigrants were treated here, we could find more common ground in our present circumstances. The same shit directed at Mexicans now was directed at us then. My father told me about getting punished if he got caught speaking Italian, because he was supposed to be American, and Italian could get your ass kicked. He was very dark Sicilian, so he faced his share of shit.
I get that Christopher Columbus may not be the best symbol, but don’t take one immigrant culture’s day and give it to someone else. If Columbus is the problem, rename the day “Italian American Heritage Day” or some such thing, and use it as a reminder of our shared history as immigrants. If you want an Indigenous People’s Day, I am all for it. But don’t take a day of cultural celebration from one group and give it to another. Make it a federal holiday - I’m with you.
But I understand what Columbus Day has meant to my family, especially the older folks who faced down discrimination and struggled, and I can’t get on board with the erasure of their experience as immigrants, and their reclassification into “white people.” They had no privilege, and Columbus Day was their day of pride in who they were. Before long, that tradition will be erased, and our cultural history will be lost.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 12:28, STARS: 4
Surly there’s an Italian hero who did something for Italy or America, not just for Spain.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
08/31/2017 at 12:34, STARS: 7
But literally every single day is ‘white peoples day’.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 12:35, STARS: 2
Wally Schirra would be a good candidate
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
08/31/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 2
There’s no shortage of italian-american pride.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
08/31/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 6
I was going to say, motherfucker sailed for Spain. As a kid I always thought the day was to celebrate his achievements for Spain.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
08/31/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 13
Surely a learned person such as yourself who is aware of the concepts of privilege knows what kind of dogwhistle is being blown when one talks about the need to preserve “tradition” and “our cultural history.” Also I’d think one might also have some awareness of how exactly Irish and Italian immigrants gained their “whiteness” in America. This is extremely tone deaf at best.
"jimz" (jimz)
08/31/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 3
yeah, but there’s rather large cultural diversity under the “Italian” label. if you asked the average person to describe an Italian person, more likely than not they’ll give you a Sicilian stereotype. my Sr. engineer is from northern Italy and is about as far as you can get from the average person’s image of an Italian yet still speak the language.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
08/31/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 10
Or how about just ditching it entirely. Any holiday I don’t get off work is pointless anyway.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 1
He didn’t even bring noodles to the new world smh
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
08/31/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 5
I grew up on the Rez, Columbus to natives represents the start of the European in vision and cultural genocide of natives in the americas. Natives are pretty sensitive to this stuff. I do however agree with a separate day for native day and let’s not make it February, the shortest month of the year.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 10
I hope the irony is not lost on you being upset about Indigenous peoples reclaiming a single day from the people who stole this hemisphere from them and perpetrated genocide against its people.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
08/31/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 6
Sacco and Vanzetti Day?
...too soon?
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
No tankies don’t get a holiday
"yamahog" (yamahog)
08/31/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 3
Anarcho-tankies
"yamahog" (yamahog)
08/31/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 2
“Picture it: Sicily” Day in memory of Sophia Petrillo
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 2
It’s like Twitch Plays Pokemon, but with tanks.
If enough people in the collective type “Fire,” a small business owner is shot.
"jimz" (jimz)
08/31/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 2
Well, back in St. Olaf....
"garagemonkee" (monke)
08/31/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 1
Errico Malatesta day
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 4
Is this really any different of an argument than a southern boy saying “The confederate flag is about southern pride! Don’t take it away! It’s not racist!”
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 3
And being upset because some other people took that holiday and made it their own when that wasn’t the original intent of the holiday?
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
08/31/2017 at 13:24, STARS: 2
I’m Jewish and for the most part in present-day America I am functionally a white person, although when Nazis start showing up, well, not so much. My ancestors went through all kinds of bad stuff in Europe, which is why they immigrated. So I get that Italians went through some similar problems assimilating into American whiteness.
I also understand that Columbus Day is being pushed towards Indigenous Peoples Day because of the damage Columbus (and many other white people) did to Native Americans.
Maybe the best solution is to kill Columbus Day entirely rather than re-purposing it. Then you just have to figure out how to placate both the Native Americans and the Italians.
Native Americans could be recognized in some way that’s not tied to Columbus.
Italians could come up with some day for themselves that’s commonly recognized, but not an actual national holiday. Basically equivalent to Cinco de Mayo for Mexicans or St. Patrick’s Day for Irish. I’m sure everyone would appreciate a holiday that turns into National Stuff Our Faces With Pizza, Pasta & Wine Day, just like Cinco de Mayo is National White People Eat Tacos & Drink Margaritas Day, and St. Patrick’s Day is National Everyone Drinks Beer Day.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 1
But Cinco de Mayo and St Patrick’s day don’t really constitute an appreciation day, right? I can’t imagine a lot of Mexicans or Irish really enjoy Americans using their cultures as an excuse to get drunk and be rowdy while stereotyping them.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
08/31/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 1
of course there is, Italy is only about 150 years old iirc. So colombus being Italian is pretty silly.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
08/31/2017 at 14:03, STARS: 1
Turning another nationality’s day of appreciating itself into an excuse to eat and drink to excess is what America does best.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 14:31, STARS: 0
Indeed!
And giving an excuse to get drunk is truly worthy of appreciation.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
08/31/2017 at 14:37, STARS: 3
Italian Americans were able to rise above the discrimination they faced and are not held down in today’s society.
Columbus’ voyage represents a high point for one culture but the beginning of the end for another. People native to the Americas have never been able to rise back up.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
08/31/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 0
What about Diversity Day?
"Richard" (rtpoe)
09/02/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 1
Yeah, Columbus was a schmuck. But don’t fall for the fallacy that the Taino and Carib were all “noble savages” who lived in peaceful hippie harmony with each other and nature. Columbus himself wondered about all the nasty scars he saw on the Taino men. As he recorded in his diary, those were battle scars from their fights with the other islanders who were raiding them, and kidnapping and enslaving their women. The same things we hate Columbus for doing later on, you know.
Know what killed more New Worlders than anything else - even the New Worlders themselves? Smallpox. That’s right. A virus that Europeans could handle but the New Worlders had zero immunity to wiped out something like 90% of them, and did it without any help from the Europeans. So if you’re getting out the torches and pitchforks, remember who your real target should be.
Look, if we really were celebrating the guy, we’d have the holiday on his birthday (assuming we knew when it was; he was pretty cagey with his background). Instead, the date is when landfall was made and Europe and the New World were formally introduced to each other. We’re celebrating the 15th century equivalent of the Apollo Program, and the guy who proposed, planned, and led it.
Sure, I get it. He’s not the sort of person we should be celebrating these days. Fine. Don’t have any more statues or places or holidays in his honor. But don’t erase what’s already there.