by "Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
Published 08/31/2017 at 10:52
by "Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
Published 08/31/2017 at 10:52
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STARS: 19
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 11:00, STARS: 11
This man is the primary reason why I will always support the taxation of Churches. Religion is nothing but a drain on polite society.
"Maxima Speed" (maximaspeed)
08/31/2017 at 11:14, STARS: 7
The man pictured is one of many who give a bad name to religion because they are in it for the money, fame, and position. I would counter by saying that religion not only gives a sense of community to many people but they do many good “works”. Religious charity is a great way to help people. St. Jude’s Children’s Hospital is a perfect example of what religious charity can do.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
08/31/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 6
This man is the primary reason why I will always support the taxation of
Prosperity
Churches.
Pseudo-
Religion is nothing but a drain on
simple-minded and/or vulnerable
polite
society.
FTFY.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 0
But what if the people in Houston are Canaanites?
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
More so than any other non-profit?
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
08/31/2017 at 11:25, STARS: 5
His church is too a shelter! A tax shelter, but a shelter nonetheless!
"jimz" (jimz)
08/31/2017 at 11:31, STARS: 0
I think the Canaanites have been gone for a long time. The bits and pieces I remember from the Old Testament are mostly about how God was always smiting the Pharisees and Canaanites. I guess he done smote them out of existence.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 11:31, STARS: 1
There’s a reason the Canaanites weren’t around then. A reason involving lots and lots of murder.
"dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter" (dsigned001)
08/31/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 0
You can still fuck em. You just can’t marry them. Although chances are you’re a Gentile anyway, so you might as well just kill yourself now.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 11:37, STARS: 4
Or...maybe religious organizations do a shit ton for society but you don’t like them?
Example - the church I belong to contributes more than $40 million/yr and its members over 25 million man hours or labor a year for humanitarian relief alone.
I forget, what did you do to help again?
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
08/31/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 1
Scandinavians try to avoid the whole “chosen people” thing after what happened a few decades ago...
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
08/31/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 4
Yesterday, the NYT published a piece , some may call it a hit job, on Osteen. It talks a lot about the prosperity gospel and how it helps explain Trump. It’s am interesting read. Normally, I don’t bother with comments on news articles, but I dug into this one, and there are many insightful (and hateful) comments. But this one caught my eye. I’m not a very religious man, but think this guy gets it.
I consider my faith to be one of the most important anchors in my life. Because I have a rough idea where God is in relationship to me, I have a better idea where to look for help in becoming the best me I can be, and that includes helping others whenever possible. I do not, as a rule talk to others about my faith unless asked. It is most certainly not a public thing, just a private relationship between me and a higher power I refer to as God. Believe or don’t believe, that is totally everyone’s individual choice. For me it is just an attempt to be better than I would likely be otherwise. Can Mr. Osteen say anything like this? I think that making faith a public spectacle belies what I see as its purpose.
"dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter" (dsigned001)
08/31/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 1
What? Haven’t you ever heard of the “frozen chosen?” I guess that’s just American Midwestern Calvinists.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 1
People shouldn’t need the reward of “eternal life” to do good things, or simply be decent human being. When a religious person does something good, they’re doing it for heaven points or the superiority complex that I see in most people who practice any particular religion. When I do something kind, its because its the right thing or because I felt like being kind, when I’m a dick its because I felt like being a dick.
Religious charity is also a way to actively sponsor the oppression of people who disagree with the stance of a church.
An enlightened person doesn’t need God to see the benefit of charity and helping others. The act itself is the reward.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 1
All while pushing the belief of scary man in the sky, and demanding tithe to spread a hateful, judgmental religion.
My favorite is when churches turn away people with whom they disagree with for lifestyle choices. I thought god loves everyone?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 1
Like I said, Its okay if you don’t like them. You just don’t get to comment on the all the churches and their contributions based on the few churches that are clearly in it for the money.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 1
Churches are more guilty than non-profits, but yeah they are pretty big offenders too. I’d like to see most of the tax code re-written to ensure that all Non-profits and churches aren’t allowed to discriminate based on any protected class in their respective state, and if they do massive fines and penalties, people give to organizations they think are good but they often have motives beyond just helping people. Too many churches and non-profits are extremely conditional as to who they are willing to help. And if they are willing to discriminate (based on what the state says is a protected class) they don’t deserve tax exempt status.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
They’re all in it for the money, some clearly more than others. Expand God’s kingdom by helping people and then guilting them into giving.
"McMike" (mcmike)
08/31/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 3
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 1
“Non-profits and churches aren’t allowed to discriminate based on any protected class in their respective state, and if they do massive fines and penalties”
so....getting rid of the 1st amendment? The Supreme court has kinda already ruled on this in the 70's. If you tax churches, you are interfering with the separation of church and state. “the power to tax involves the power to destroy.”
Church is an opt in.
"fintail" (fintail)
08/31/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 0
Something something opiate of the masses?
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 12:10, STARS: 0
The Supreme Court also ruled to uphold slavery with Dred Scott. Don’t confuse legality with morality. I’m also pretty sure there’s something in that book you revere that says something about not judging people, yet you’re using the law as justification to discriminate... but I digress
If I was king, I’d ban religion. But thankfully, young people are rejecting religion in the US so hopefully before I die, the country is by a wide margin atheist or secular and this terrible vestige of human history dies off.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 2
No you are equating my support for religion as a support for discrimination based on your limited understanding of me and my views. Your right to be an atheist is just as valuable as my right to be religious. You’re going to have to square that, because THAT is morality.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 1
Except that me being an atheist doesn’t actively detract from the advancement of the human condition. You have the right to believe anything you want, but whenever belief turns to action. For example the church actively participating in/funding misinformation about evolution, climate change, dinosaurs, homosexuality, women’s reproductive rights, etc so an so and so forth.
If y’all want your church to sit and talk about god and feel better about it, great. But stop trying to get the rest of us to join your cult and please stop using “gods intentions” as a position for or against something. All religions are cults and should be held with the same contempt and condemnation as those weirdos that wore matching track suits and worshiped the hale-bop comet, killing themselves im an attempt to find their god.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 12:30, STARS: 3
You have a view of humanity and I have mine. And thats what my rights grant me. I think its comical you talk about action when you said your first action would be to abolish that right if given the power. Think on that for a second.
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
$40 Million a year????
40 WHOLE million dollars a year......?
Obviously the mormon church hides its numbers, ( why would they do that?? ) but it’s been estimated that the church takes in over $70 BILLION a year..............
So, assuming these numbers are correct, $40 mm is less than one percent per year........
Less than one percent.
But yeah, churches are *totally* not a scam.......
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 1
1. its been estimated at closer to 7, not 70 billion...not sure where you got that number.
2. 40 million is ONLY for humanitarian aid rendered, and doesn’t account for storehouses , transportation and other overhead costs associated with aid.
3. did you miss the 25 million man hours? now imagine you pay those people, or even part of those people.
3. The Church, like any other self sustaining organization need things aside from charity - i.e. buildings and maintenance and contracted labor.
4. don’t forget that the church operates in countries that do collect taxes, and it has significant land holdings in those countries and around the world.
5. The church is also self insured and self banked, so it isn’t in debt with reserves that are held in place to ensure the safety of the organization.
If you cherry pick the data like you did it looks as bad as you say, if you see the whole picture it makes more sense, would it be nice if the church released its entire financials? Sure. Would it change you mind on anything? probably not.
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 1
Well the 70 billion was an estimate based on what facts could be gathered.. as I mentioned the church hides it’s numbers.
Do you have a citation for your 7 billion number? And keep in mind, if it is actually only 7 billion, that means the 40 mm figure still only equals about 5%...... a VERY low percentage for any charitable organization.....
And regarding the 25 million man-hours: how many of those are in the form of “hey, we’re gonna use your kids for a couple of years....” And wait, it gets better (for the church), those kids have to pay to work for free, for the church, for two years......
And don’t forget, e-meters and auditing xeno’s influence don’t come cheap either...................
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 0
“Church is an opt in”
Go tell that to the children of Warren Jeffs.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 1
The 7 billion is based on a report done in 2012 by slate.
Could it be off by a little? yes, by a factor of 10? no.
those man hours do not include missionary service.
As I said before, those numbers were for humanitarian needs only, not missionary efforts.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
cults are not opt in. compulsion of will is strictly against the tenants of any religion worth its salt including the LDS church. its kind of a key doctrine actually.
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 1
“ compulsion of will is strictly against the tenants ”
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 0
well...you certainly showed me. I guess religion isn’t for me after all...
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
According to the slate article, the $7 billion figure is the estimate of just the tithing revenues....
So less than 5% of JUST THE TITHING revenues results in your $40mm number................. geez.....
Def not a money making racket here...... /s
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:34, STARS: 0
its also estimated that any addition revenue amounts to about 10%. so 7 billion + 10% is 7.7 billion.
And again, that 40 mil is JUST material (cash) and non-material contributions to relief efforts.
They operate multiple charity efforts including scholastic education grants, vocational job training, agricultural support and eduction, refugee relief, adoption assistance and healthcare in over 189 countries.
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 1
I don’t care what choices you make. Xeno, Jupiter, Spaghetti monster... or some convicted fraudster that found magic silver plates...
Your choice.
My issue is when cults try to subvert the society at large to their thinking. Jews don’t eat pork, but you don’t see them trying to change the laws to remove bacon from my omelette.
Play with your toys in your house. And don’t try to dictate that the rest of us have to play with your toys; and we have no problems.
Society has already been ruled by religion before. It was called the dark ages for a reason.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:42, STARS: 0
tell me how you REALLY feel. You have made up your mind and having chosen to to ignore the good. the point I made at the start is that its assigning to say that churches and religion aren’t contributors to society. I wont stop you from hating religion but you should really step back an examine how much of that is just anger and how much of that is stepped in reality.
Lets start with that “convicted fraudster” bit
Facts matter.
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 0
Well if you really want to know how I feel... I think mormanism is just the scientology of the 1800's....
Question: how many shopping malls does your church own?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 13:54, STARS: 0
Question: Why does it matter to you? What bearing could it possibly have against the questions of mortality? I freely admit the church has income outside of tithing, and that its estimated to contribute little to their income.
I guess my question is...why does it matter?
"BobintheMtns" (bobinthemtns)
08/31/2017 at 13:55, STARS: 0
Regarding my question about the church’s real estate holdings.. from the Deseret News:
Given its enormous income from tithing and business operations, it
appears the church is investing several hundred million dollars a year
in securities and real estate,
So they spend
several hundred million on real estate
yearly, but 40 on charity.................
Yup... no grifting here...
Man, you might want to get off the computer and get to work, your ‘church’ needs that money for more shopping malls!
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 14:02, STARS: 0
I think religious institutions should be allowed to operate tax free to a point . When your church was once the home of the Houston Rockets you’re well beyond that point.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 14:04, STARS: 0
What’s wrong with owning the property you build on again?
Do you even realize why the church would own farms and ranches?
Where do you think that product goes?
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 0
Well that’s a little far.
My religion is a strong part of my cultural background and there’s nothing really wrong with that.
Religion has meaning to many people, and I don’t see much wrong with that either. Who am I to judge what you believe or where you find guidance, just so long as you practice it peacefully without infringing on others rights.
If your attitude is that religion is bad and you want atheism to spread to everyone then how are you any better than the religions you strive to abolish?
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
That’s the problem, one of the major tenants of every religion is to convert other people, You don’t just practice it peacefully without infringing on the rights of others. Your belief and faith permeates every level of our government and creates biases based on your “teachings” which show up in law, which affects me who thinks your beliefs are silly, like a child believing in an imaginary friend. I say this not offend, but that’s what your god really, truly is.
Atheism is truth. There is no god. It has no pretensions about it. Until that it is scientifically proven to me that god exists, that there is an afterlife, religion will all be a lie.
An Atheist can never use faith or belief as a defense. Either you did it because it was something you wanted to do, and made a choice to do, or you didn’t. None of this “god told me to” bullshit. I’m curious what the ratio of atheists vs religious people have died fighting about religion. I’m not aware of any war crimes, terrorism or heinous acts done in the name of Atheism, But I am aware of a lot of those same things done in the name of god.
If nothing else, purging religion from this earth would stop a lot of pain, suffering, war, and killing in the name of religion. We’re humans and we kind find a lot of stuff to kill each other over, but killing each other over who has the better imaginary friend takes the cake.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 14:27, STARS: 0
How is a child supposed to opt-out? They don’t get a choice.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 0
How does a child opt out of anything? They are a child. Choices are made by adults
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
including religious indoctrination? Ah now your brainwashing makes sense.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 0
I disagree with a lot of what you said here
Not every religion has a major tenant of converting others. I’m not an expert on most religions, but I grew up a Jew and I don’t remember converting other people every being a part of our heritage. Maybe once in the past, but certainly not a modern tenant. It’s actually quite difficult to convert to Judaism, contradicting a view of conversion being a goal.
Religion invading law is bad, I agree wholeheartedly.
“Atheism is truth” ehhhh that’s a shaky argument. Until it is scientifically proven that God doesn’t exist there’s no reason to claim it as a fact . I personally believe that there is a shitload we don’t know about the universe, I’m not ruling out a higher power though if one does exist it probably doesn’t pay much attention to us or fit the mold created by various religions.
Your paragraph about atheists essentially having some moral high ground when it comes to violence is a little too morally ambiguous to me. You’re toeing a line where atheism becomes exactly what you think religion is, a tool for persecuting those whose beliefs differ from your own. A fervent belief that there is no god is hardly any better than a fervent belief that there is a specific god.
Finally, purging religion would end some war maybe. But it also would strip away the mechanisms through which many people practice charity and kindness. Not to mention it wouldn’t be that long before belief in something , even if it’s a moral, ethical, or legal code not based on a deity, filled religion’s space.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/31/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 0
I always think its funny when only religion is mentioned in the indoctrination argument, and always pejoratively. You didn’t learn important things from your parents? Good and bad that shape you who you are? or where you always shaping your own path from the womb? Discounting choice as an adult with background of religion is pompous and ignorant.
Brainwashing - LOL. Like you haven’t been programed to behave the way you do.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
08/31/2017 at 15:28, STARS: 0
Funny enough, Judaism as a religion draws the least amount of ire from me (mostly due to your point about Jews not proselytizing), not a big fan of the state of Israel though.
My assertion that god doesn’t exist is based on a lack of evidence, those that believe god exists do so on faith. A lack of evidence trumps faith. Claiming that because enough people believe something makes it “true” is silly. If enough people believe that the world rides on the back of a giant invisible turtle, doesn’t mean that it does. If you argue with a person of faith that god doesn’t exist, their immediate answer is “yes he does” If it were “well he might or might not, but I don’t want to be on his bad side when I die if there is an afterlife” it would be more understandable and shows the guilt/fear based portion of most religions
A fervent belief that there is no god, removes the power behind the words that instruct people to do morally wrong things in god’s name. Atheism is not a moral compass the way religion can be. And not that there aren’t some good tenants in most religions, but the execution is always off, always. Because rather than inviting criticism from followers, the defense of the one spreading the word is “god said so” is used, and god is infallible, so you’re wrong. but further on the moral high ground comment: Shouldn’t those that perpetrate violence be persecuted? I mean self-defense is one thing, but in most cases violence is generally a bad thing.
Religious based charity does good things, but also offers some discrimination. The reward of kindness and charity is not through God’s love, but the act itself. And you’re right that if religion was purged something else would take it’s place, I would hope that some level of ethical universal maxims would replace religion as the moral compass for society.
I don’t need the promise of eternal life to do good deeds while on this earth.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 16:42, STARS: 0
I wasn’t saying that God is “true” because people believe, but your logic is very easily applied both ways. You say you haven’t seen evidence of a God, I’m saying I haven’t seen evidence of not a God. I also don’t think you’re treating “believers” fairly at all as you’re overgeneralizing it. Not everyone that follows a certain religion is 100% bought in to that religion’s beliefs, in fact I’d argue most aren’t. I’m sure a fair number of people if given the opportunity might be willing to agree that God might not exist, but they have faith that he/she/it does, and if you had the discussion with them about why they feel that way you might not be so harshly opposed to the idea of a deity.
MOST people don’t use religion to justify violence, but it seems like you think most violence is based in religion, which again just isn’t fair. For someone that acts like he has a moral compass far beyond anyone that isn’t an atheist, you sure sound like an asshole. You may not need the promise of eternal life to do good deeds, but you might try being at least a little understanding of other people’s beliefs rather than immediately labeling anyone that doesn’t follow your exact line of thinking as some moral pariah.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 16:47, STARS: 0
My impression of Osteen has always been that he is an excellent motivational speaker that uses religion as a marketing tool quite successfully.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
08/31/2017 at 17:08, STARS: 0
Good point, I’m just not sure God intended it to be used as such. You could probably make the same statement about ISIS.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
08/31/2017 at 17:11, STARS: 1
Agreed. I suppose I’m mostly wondering why this is the moment that people finally came to their senses about him. Sure, he’s had his critics, but he opened the doors to that church stadium a long time ago.
"Sam" (samwellington)
09/03/2017 at 00:05, STARS: 0
Actually that was made up to make God seem more infinitely powerful (when in reality the Jews just went on a jihad against the Canaanites for being “sinful”, Jews were jihadding way before it was cool). They have matched Canaanite DNA found in old bones to modern-day Lebanese people.
"Sam" (samwellington)
09/03/2017 at 00:07, STARS: 0
Yep. And, tbh, I wouldn’t completely discount him having a net positive impact on people for the most part. He’s basically in the business of selling hope and faith, something that tends to improve people’s overall happiness.
"Sam" (samwellington)
09/03/2017 at 00:11, STARS: 0
I’d say that religion has played a major role stabilizing the population during our transition from small nomadic tribes to massive communities. Helps people get along, as long as they are in the same club. If you read the Bible, there’s a lot of stuff in there that is written explicitly to help people survive back in the day. Things like treatments of wounds and such.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
09/03/2017 at 09:41, STARS: 0
Perhaps, but I’m not a fan of him or others that seem to take advantage of people seeking guidance through religion to gain massive personal wealth.
"fintail" (fintail)
09/03/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 0
Good points. Then, at best (in my opinion), it is something of the past (centuries ago) more than being legitimately relevant to recent generations, the present, or future.
Seems like a money making endeavor these days, along with dividing more than it unites. And of course, the disgusting political influence.