by "I Will Always Be The Honey Badger" (iwillalwaysbethehoneybadger)
Published 08/29/2017 at 16:50
by "I Will Always Be The Honey Badger" (iwillalwaysbethehoneybadger)
Published 08/29/2017 at 16:50
No Tags
STARS: 0
But first, Wrinkle Wall.
I know there’s a couple of architects on Oppo, and I’d like to know what program you use for designing buildings. I’m tired of just drawing useless floor plans and want something that will let me properly engineer a structure. It’s really just a hobby but I like learning new things.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
08/29/2017 at 16:59, STARS: 1
AutoCAD can do amazing things. Not many people know that it’s also good for 3d modeling and parametric drawings.
Revit is probably your best choice for arch software.
"marshknute" (marshknute)
08/29/2017 at 17:20, STARS: 1
Revit is unfortunately the way to go for 3D. I say unfortunately because it’s the most unintuitive program on earth, and maddeningly difficult for newbies to learn.
I know AutoCad has a 3D component, but I don’t know anyone who uses it. Most firms don’t bother with Revit and draw everything in 2D CAD. You have to be diligent about drawing each wall an appropriate thickness for sheathing/studs, but it’s typically way faster to move a bunch of lines than spending time sifting through Revit’s sea of error messages.
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
08/29/2017 at 17:38, STARS: 1
I would guess 80% of professional offices use mainly AutoCAD, 7% are mainly Revit, 5% are Microstation, and 8% are other (like VectorWorks).
This isn’t to come off as a dick, but you’ll learn much, much more studying the in’s and out’s of other people’s drawings and learning to read plans than buying software you assume will do it for you. Engineering and architecture are extremely learned professions. Any decent architect would draw by hand from memory all the details that show up on any of their drawings. Or go read pamphlets from companies like Anderson about how to install a window, or Simpson Strong-Tie about how to design a deck to meet the IRC. There is a lot that goes into it and we train for years on how to make this stuff work and not collapse/leak/look terrible.
That said, I think Chief Architect / Home Designer products are supposed to be pretty good and much more accessible -both financially and with taking care of some of that learned stuff (I haven’t used them and don’t know anyone personally who has). This will really be mainly for wood/steel frame houses. If you want drafting software, get as cheap a version of AutoCAD as you can find (seriously, I still use 2006 LT for spur of the moment DIY shit.) LibreCAD is supposed to be decent too but again no firsthand experience.
For what it’s worth, I’m a licensed structural engineer. Hope this helps.
"I Will Always Be The Honey Badger" (iwillalwaysbethehoneybadger)
08/29/2017 at 17:48, STARS: 0
I’m no structural engineer, but nothing I’ve built has fallen apart. So far, anyway. I love the idea of engineering things to work properly, and lately i’ve been poking around different industries to see what I have a knack for and what I could reasonably explore. I’ve been playing with everything from AutoCad to Fruity Loops looking at software that lets me make things.
"wkiernan" (wkiernan)
08/29/2017 at 17:52, STARS: 0
That bad, huh? I’ve got Revit, which I use exclusively for extracting AutoCAD drawings from Revit files architects have sent me. I was thinking of trying to learn how to draw from scratch in it, but when I start it up it’s pretty forbidding, not a bit beginner-friendly.
As far as 3D AutoCAD goes, they’ve got this product called Civil 3D, which some people at my office (suckers for vendor presentations) think is The Future of Land Surveying CAD, but my feelings toward it can’t be expressed in a family-oriented site like this. Never seen worse software in my entire life. Using it to draw surveys is just like using old-fashioned AutoCAD, except with boxing gloves on both hands and an opaque bag over my head.
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
08/29/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 0
If you don’t mind - how old are you? If you’re out of school what are you doing now?
"I Will Always Be The Honey Badger" (iwillalwaysbethehoneybadger)
08/29/2017 at 18:23, STARS: 0
I’m 28 now. Never progressed further then high school. Ending up in agriculture, automotive, parts, service, sales, and now I’m in the flooring business. I work with a lot of commerical blueprints quoting flooring & tiling projects as well as residential homes.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
08/29/2017 at 21:06, STARS: 0
You aren’t being a dick. You are pointing out that architecture is a hell of a lot more than drawing up floorplans. There’s a reason they go to school for five years, spend many years as an intern and take more licensing exams than most engineers (no offence).
Full disclosure: my wife is sitting for her exams now and I work in an engineering firm.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
08/29/2017 at 21:11, STARS: 0
There’s a lot more to properly designing a structure than having the right software. There’s a reason folks that do this have years of education, experience, and a license.
There’s also professional liability insurance which covers them if something goes wrong. If you design and build something, then sell it, you can be held liable if someone gets hurt in your building or if a design flaw causes it to fall down, burn down, etc.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
08/29/2017 at 21:28, STARS: 0
Civil 3D has been around for a long time. If all you guys are using it for is drawing surveys, you’re really missing out on the advanced functionality.
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
08/30/2017 at 00:24, STARS: 0
28? You got plenty of time to figure out what you wanna do. I was in the engineering-est engineering school and went through a year or two where I was trying out a bunch of shit too (ironically, Ableton and Pro Tools were on my list). I wrote music criticism and about other stuff, and started it doing it a couple years ago after a decade-plus hiatus. What I’m saying is, people’s agency is a helluva thing.
Anyways, that’s a pretty cool road to go through. Diverse background. Engineering isn’t the easiest thing to get in to, but people definitely take different roads to get there. In my office we have one guy who has been a staff engineer for 30+ years, never got licensed... One who was an estimator for a few years, one who is sitting for his architecture exams after like a decade as a drafter... Lots of roads in but all need the dedication.
I take it you’re looking at a career change? Possibly interested in going from the contracting side toward the owner / consultant side? I’ll see if I can come up with anything to explore or other suggestions.
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
08/30/2017 at 11:21, STARS: 0
Not to downplay the point you’re making, but that Architects need more years of school, more years of practice, and more exams just to stamp fewer drawings than engineers is a bit of a joke (in most if not all states, engineers can stamp anything an architect could but not vice versa). The profession is not doing that well as far as getting younger people interested and I think that the attitude of “ITS SO HARD TO BE AN ARCHITECT” (including from AIA) has a lot to do with that. It’s a learned profession to be sure, but it’s not particle physics either.
Wishing your wife the best on her exams. My personal grievances with the process aside, that’s a remarkable and difficult thing to accomplish. Congrats to her.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
08/30/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 0
Thanks for the well-wishes. I’ll pass them along.
Whether you consider it a joke or not, it is true that Architects require more education and experience and have to take more exams than most engineers (it’s a frequent topic of conversation in our firm since we employ both Architects and Engineers). The discussion usually circles around fields of expertise and willingness to take on responsibility. Very few engineers that I’ve met are willing to work outside their own area of expertise, whereas most architects must have a working knowledge of many fields. It’s the difference between generalists and specialists.
Saying “in most if not all states, engineers can stamp anything an architect could but not vice versa” is not exactly true. The situation is a lot more complicated since it involves law and liability. The laws place responsibility on the person of record who stamps the drawings, whether they are engineering or architectural in nature. Most references I’ve read include language that requires the person of record to have “direct supervision” over the work in the drawings. Unless the architect’s work is under the direct supervision of an engineer, then the engineer has no business stamping the work. However, it is not unusual for structural work to be part of an architectural drawing set which is stamped by an architect.
Many industries are having issues with recruiting. Architecture and surveying are just a couple. Part of it is the education requirements, part of it is the licensing requirements. AIA changed their rules to allow new graduates to take the exams immediately instead of having to wait until they complete their experience requirements. Unfortunately, this also meant they had to redesign the exams. Questions that focus on things learned through years of experience were removed.
As a construction coordinator and owner’s rep, my wife has been dealing with the ramifications of these changes. Many of the young, newly licensed architects are making mistakes that would have been caught by someone with a lot more experience. It’s part of the reason she finally decided to finish up her exams.
This change by the AIA puts more licensed people into the profession, but does so at a cost.
"notsomethingstructural" (notsomethingstructural)
08/30/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 0
In New York, an engineer can stamp anything an architect is licensed to produce. If an engineer wants to certify occupancy and egrees and zoning requirements, they have absolute authority to do that. An architect cannot by law stamp structural drawings in New York - they are separate but related filings for the same building. Not sure about other engineering trades. If they are caught and the violation is egregious, they are sanctioned and can lose their filing privileges in the jurisdiction. Other areas I have practiced at a staff level (not professional - only licensed in NY) were similar.
And IMO allowing new grads to sit for exams is stupid. We both agree it is still a learned profession and letting new grads certify things they really know nothing about (including the liability affixed) is crazy. I get why AIA is doing that but man they just do not seem to be able to get it together. I think that the possibility being entertained by ASCE of PE’s needing a master’s degree is equally stupid because I have one of those too and another year in the field is worth more than one in the classroom.
What I have told people is getting a professional engineers license does not mean you are tested to ensure you have a baseline understanding of everything that will come up. It is to determine you have the ability to understand code and engineering practices and ability to manage your resources. As an engineer you are granted permission to certify what you know, but being granted a license is recognition you can be trusted not to certify what you don’t (more or less). I think AIA does not handle things like that, and I think that’s to the determent of the profession.
I’ll certainly give you this: surveying is totally in the shitter.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
08/30/2017 at 14:04, STARS: 0
“...allowing new grads to sit for exams is stupid.”
We are certainly in agreement there.
“As an engineer you are granted permission to certify what you know, but being granted a license is recognition you can be trusted not to certify what you don’t (more or less).”
You are one of the few engineers I’ve met who realizes this. I’ve had a licensed civil engineer decide he was qualified to complete an EIS despite having never worked on one. Despite pointing out that we have a bunch of qualified environmental professionals on staff, he decided to do it on his own. He is no longer with the firm.
“I’ll certainly give you this: surveying is totally in the shitter.”
Surveyors are a cranky lot who, in my experience, aren’t very good at doing much more than completing boundary surveys. I can’t tell you how many I’ve had to call to the carpet because of bad data. On one of our levee jobs, several miles of silt fence was installed in the wrong location because the surveyor provided ground coordinates instead of grid. On another levee job, all of the elevation data for the profiles was wrong on the sides, but correct on top. I found that two of his crew had their poles set to different heights and had accidentally swapped them when they set up their rigs. I told him to set all of his poles to the same height so they didn’t screw up the rest of the job. Then he wasn’t paying attention and truncated the coordinates on the rest of the job. The guy was busy yelling about how I was wrong until I showed him that his latest data didn’t align with his previous data or the survey that he had completed several years before.
These are the guys that like to call the engineers morons.