by "DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
Published 08/22/2017 at 21:53
by "DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
Published 08/22/2017 at 21:53
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We’ve all heard people bemoan the alleged evils of capitalism. But my question is. What quasi-viable economic systems are out there besides communism (I said quasi-viable) and capitalism? My understanding of socialism is that it’s half-in-half. Essentially capitalistic, but with certain industries ran by the state and extensive social welfare programs, but capital/wealth is still owned by individuals. So still capitalistic, just kind of a modified form of capitalism.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
08/22/2017 at 22:04, STARS: 0
Or do they mean that we should rejoin England as a colony and go back to Mercantilism O_O
"Spridget" (dustbustervans)
08/22/2017 at 22:16, STARS: 4
Realistically, democratic socialism is the only viable example besides capitalism. It’s basically what you described- a democracy with a capitalist economic system but large government programs and overreach. Universal health care and free college education are two of the most popular democratic socialist ideas in the US, and presidents who were democratic socialists or had some democratic socialist ideas include FDR, Harry Truman, and, to some extent, LBJ, JFK, and Teddy Roosevelt.
"CB" (jrcb)
08/22/2017 at 22:28, STARS: 1
Democratic socialism. To add to Spridget’s point, companies also have a large amount of regulation and oversight, meaning that we don’t run into issues of economic collapses caused by fraud.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
08/22/2017 at 22:43, STARS: 1
Now we have governments that rule over companies (though lobbying hurts) we could theoretically revert back to a system where a capatalist system is a goverment like in the East India Company or VOC. China with its central economic controls is practically a company with a government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company
we’re entering an age where companies have larger GDP than most countries
And companies taking on countries in trade disputes.
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"SomethingSomethingCleverThing" (somethingsomethingcleverthing)
08/22/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 5
Outside of political economy classrooms when most people bemoan capitalism they normally are not advocating for a completely different economic system (such as communism or feudalism or mercantilism or whatever) but advocating for a change in the power structures currently guiding the economy. For instance, in the current western economy most of the wealth is acclimating among the richest, so people would prefer government tax the rich and redistribute wealth (though various avenues) to the less rich. The system is still capitalism, but is is just capitalism that leans more towards socialism than the current version. Essentially, there are no pure capitalist economies in the modern world (barring some tiny corner case I am probably forgetting), they are all mixed economies that incorporate elements of socialism. Which way it leans is usually the point of contention.
Except for libertarians or some hold out communists I guess.
"Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection" (itsalwayssteve)
08/22/2017 at 23:15, STARS: 1
Rhine capitalism - also known as social capitalism - is probably the most viable economic system for large scale use. Spridget explains it pretty well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy
"SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media" (silentbutnotreallydeadly)
08/22/2017 at 23:19, STARS: 1
It may be semantics but communism is not an economic system and capitalism is about as useful a descriptor for an economic system as the word socialism.
Regardless, the world’s economic system (certainly at the country scale) is growth based. Doesn’t matter which country or which political system...it’s all about growth. The simple idea that there will always be more. This is despite the fact that there are always limits.
Most limits are like swamps...a sticky morass with fuzzy boundaries and seasonal changes. A bridge is eventually build over it or someone finds a path through it which eventually becomes a highway. But in the process many fall in and are lost. More rarely, limits are hard and sharp like a cliff and many are driven over it before someone finds a way down it or around it...or lots of parachutes.
Whatever system subverts the growth economy will have to have the foresight to avoid testing limits and maximise the benefits from generalist rather than specialist tendencies...and be happy with its lot.
Which is why the growth economy will rule until such time that a path forward can no longer be found and the path behind collapses under the weight...
"PS9" (PS9)
08/22/2017 at 23:32, STARS: 3
It is not capitalism that is evil, but the idea that it works the best without any restrictions at all. The notion that the market is ‘wise’ and that there is an ‘invisible hand’ that will work everything out for the best. The idea that those who are good and/or lucky at capitalism are somehow more virtuous than everyone else and, conversely, those who are bad/unlucky are deficient in some way, and all should be viewed as such 100% of the time regardless of any actual context. There are, of course, smart people who use intelligence to become rich. There are, of course, lazy and unmotivated people who will be poor as a result of their actions. No one is rich and dumb, no one is hard working and poor, and only rich people are smart, hard working , industrious, and worth of respect and dignity.
Capitalism is not evil. But the idea that it can be the sole measure of our worth as human beings definitely is. Regulations are a frequent boogeyman you might see bandied about on certain blogs and news channels. But it’s easy to forget the era before regulatory agencies existed. Once upon a time, there were no regulatory agencies, no government, no restrictions, total freedom to operate whatever market you wanted in the united states. The result of the ‘market wisdom’ at the time was that it was more important for plantation owners to be rich and get free labor than it was for generations of human beings to be recognized as worthy of freedom and dignity. So it remained for almost 100 years.
Much later, the modern era brought new technology, but still not much regulation. The results were disasterous. No FDA meant Coca Cola had literal coocaine in it, as did medicines that were marketed to children. Food coloring had non-foodsafe dyes in them that nuked your liver. Irradiated products pushed by snake oil salesmen propping up atomic discoveries as the cure-all for anything you could imagine...except cancer. Cars were literal death traps; steering columns that would impale the driver upon impact, windshield glass that would decapitate you if your head went throught the window in an accident, crumple zones and chassis legs were not things yet, so severe crashes would fold the car like a japanese handfan and kill all the occupants. ‘Market wisdom’ in this time meant people getting sick and seriously injured as a matter of course when using the products they brought was okay if a few companies made lots of money selling dangerous things to people.
Noticing a pattern yet? Any time we trust ‘market wisdom’ what we are actually doing is agreeing that human life is not as important as profit. Capitalism is not evil. Capital ists though are all too often willing to do evil so long as it leads to a profit. I’ll close with an example a friend of mine used when he debated capitalism with a pro-capitalist anarchist (don’t ask, we didn’t understand him either)
“You treat capitalism the way a child might treat chocolate. If one piece is good, then a thousand pieces must be awesome! When someone wants to talk to you about blood sugar, rotting teeth, diabetes, high blood pressure and the consequences of rapid weight gain, you demand for them to explain why they are anti-chocolate.”
"ranwhenparked" (ranwhenparked)
08/23/2017 at 00:16, STARS: 1
Well, there’s also fascism, which is basically a totalitarian form of socialism with a thin veneer of capitalism applied over it.