by "shpuker" (shpuker)
Published 08/12/2017 at 13:44
by "shpuker" (shpuker)
Published 08/12/2017 at 13:44
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STARS: 0
Yea so my break down of GM last night was pretty shit on every level, so let’s just keep the tailspin going shall we?
Note: Any engine followed by a * is indicating either a next generation engine or one that does not yet exist.
Let’s just get everyone all riled up right away shall we?
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You don’t fucking need two sub-luxury brands GM. Buick sales still haven’t taken off despite the mountain of money they’ve thrown at advertising for the company.
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Nothing absolutely ridiculous needs to happen at GMC. Sure the engine options are pretty shit, and the Terrain probably doesn’t need to exist, but I think the rest of the lineup is in the right general area.
Acadia
Adjustments: Shift up-market to around a $36,000 base price, more standard features
Powertrain: 2.5L Turbo*, 2.8L Diesel
Yukon/Yukon XL
Adjustments: Shift slightly up-market to a base price of around $51,000/$54,000, ditch the 5.3L
Powertrain: 2.8L Diesel, 6.2L V8
Canyon
Adjustments: Shift up-market considerably to a base price of $26,000 (Essentially just removing the SL trim)
Powertrain:
2.5L Turbo, 2.8L Diesel, 3.0L TT
Sierra 1500/HD
Adjustments: Shift up-market to a $32,000 base price, aluminum everything
Powertrain: 2.8L Diesel High-Output, 3.6L Turbo, 6.2L V8, 6.2L SC V8, 6.6L Diesel
Some quick clarifications: The 2.5L I4 Turbo I’m proposing would ideally slot in at a similar output to Fords 2.7L EcoBoost V6 (So ~310 HP, 350 lb*ft), and yes I’m proposing ditching the 5.3L (An engine in which I own and actually quite enjoy, but its old and outmatched)
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Again nothing crazy, I think Cadillac is slotting itself into a decent place in the luxury segment, especially if SUV sales continue to rise.
ATS
Adjustments: Almost no changes, maybe stop skimping out on some of the interior quality and give it a shift-dial.
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 3.0L TT
CTS
Adjustments: Similar to the ATS, nothing crazy
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 2.0L Turbo Hybrid, 3.6L TT
STS (XTS sounds like a sport CUV...)
Adjustments: Expand the engine lineup for fucks sake. If you’re going to sell it then sell it...
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 2.0L Turbo Hybrid, 3.6L TT
ZTS (CT6)
Adjustments: I just think the CT6 names is fucking stupid.
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 3.0L Turbo*, 3.6L TT
XT3
Adjustments: Luxury version of the Traxx, AKA something nobody asked for but fuck it. Starting price of $32,000 to compete with the X1
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 3.0L TT
XT5
Adjustments: Shift slightly up-market to $41,000 base
Powertrain: 3.0L Turbo*, 3.6L TT
Escalade
Adjustments: Little to no change at all, maybe more aluminum.
Powertrain: 3.0L Turbo*, 6.2L V8
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Just a bit of house keeping and a couple vehicles cut out...
Sonic
Adjustments: Very little changes
Powertrain: 1.0L Turbo, 1.5L Turbo
Cruze
Adjustments: Add an ST competitor
Powertrain: 1.5L Turbo, 2.0L Turbo
Malibu
Adjustments: Almost none, just make it more reliable
Powertrain: 1.5L Turbo, 2.0L Turbo, 1.5L Turbo Hybrid
Volt
Adjustments: Shift to a true range extended powertrain
Powertrain: 1.0L Turbo RE BEV 200 HP e-motor
Bolt
Adjustments: No change
Powertrain: 200 HP e-motor
Camaro
Adjustments: Very little change, just some mild PT changes/upgrades
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 3.0L Turbo*, 3.6L TT, 6.2L SC
Corvette
Adjustments: MID ENGINED MOTHER FUCKER! Fight me.
Powertrain: 3.0L TT, 3.6L TT, 6.2L SC
Traxx
Adjustments: Add a 2.0L Turbo “RS” option, update to the 1.5L Turbo, that’s it
Powertrain: 1.5L Turbo, 2.0L Turbo
Equinox
Adjustments: Very little
Powertrain: 1.5L Turbo, 2.5L Turbo*
Traverse
Adjustments: Maybe a slight reduction in base price to ~$27,000
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 2.5L Turbo*
Tahoe/Suburban
Adjustments: Add aluminum, add turbos, subtract $ (base price down to $41,000/$44,000
Powertrain: 2.8L Diesel, 3.0L Turbo
Colorado
Adjustments: Just PT changes, simplify the lineup.
Powertrain: 2.0L Turbo, 2.5L Turbo, 2.8L Diesel
Silverado
Adjustments: Add aluminum, add turbos
Powertrain: 2.8L Diesel High-Output, 3.0L Turbo, 3.6L Turbo, 6.2L V8, 6.6L Diesel
Notes:
Hybrid Powertrains: The 1.5L Turbo and 2.0L Turbo Hybrids would use essentially identical EV architecture and e-motors.
5.3L V8: Yea I know you’re going to get pissed, but replacing it with a 3.0L Turbo makes sense. The 5.3L Gets dog-shit fuel economy, isn’t that great of a performer, and won’t be emissions compliant much longer.
So go ahead and rip that to shreds, where am I wrong Oppo?
"Maxima Speed" (maximaspeed)
08/12/2017 at 13:52, STARS: 1
The Chevy Sonic is the work of the Devil, it should be expunged from existence............ other than that, good lineup.
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
08/12/2017 at 14:10, STARS: 1
Not having a mid range V8 in a truck is just asking for sales to disappear. Even Ford still offers a 5.0 if you want instead of the 2.7L EcoShit. Truck people still don’t entirely trust turbos despite Ford’s push for them.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
08/12/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 1
Buick needs to stay around for the Chinese market, which means it needs to be sold and marketed effectively in our market so it can continue to be aspirational over there. I think it has a good slot in the premium segment and needs to be unleashed to do its thing.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
08/12/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 0
GM, this should be your lineup:
-
Why is this company still in business? Superfluous, dated (except the Volt/Bolt), generic, no unique selling point.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
08/12/2017 at 14:17, STARS: 0
Mid-engined Cadillac halo sports car.
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 14:18, STARS: 0
Then why is the 3.5L EcoBoost the top selling engine in the F150? Just because people have reservations about the engines doesn’t mean they won’t buy the hell out of them.
"PS9" (PS9)
08/12/2017 at 14:21, STARS: 6
Buick sales still haven’t taken off despite the mountain of money they’ve thrown at advertising for the company.
What??
Buick is the best selling and fastest growing near-luxury brand in the united states. They crushed Lincoln with double their volume. They beat Acura by 70k cars. They slightly outsold Audi last year. Audi! Everything for them post carpocalypse has been year over year growth. You might not like Buick very much personally, and it’s not like there aren’t valid reasons to not like the concept of a near-luxury brand, but the market segment is real, and Buick is at the top of it here. Killing the brand would be an insane move by GM, especially given that PSA likely brought Opel as a way of gaining a foothold in the US market that would be cost-prohibitive for them otherwise.
And while we are here, let’s discuss the concept of a near luxury brand; it is the offering of something nicer than a chevy for a discount over something like a Mercedes. You can get a really nice interior and a plushy ride and maybe even a great design on the outside. But that discount means you’re going to be giving up something. Most of the time this means there isn’t a performance sub-brand of faster versions of the line up, no large engines (think V8 and up), no RWD, no version of the car getting chassis tuned on the infamous ‘ring, also likely no racing team trying to take the brand to victory in LeMans or something. This is Buick.
A full-luxury brand is everything a near-luxury brand is, without compromises. You get the nice interior and ride and the large engines, the ‘ring tuning, the racing teams, the RWD and the performance sub-brand. I’d agree that Cadillac has not completely executed on their mission to be a luxury brand like Merc, Audi and Bimmer. But that this is their goal as a brand is not deniable. Their product portfolio includes a four door with a Z06 engine in it. This is the kind of product you’d never see at Buick, Lincoln, or Acura.
The difference between a Cadillac and a Buick is a product that tries to offer the buyer luxuries, and a product that is luxury. This difference may not exist to you, but there would not be a market full of buyers willing to bring another $20k with them over the average price of a Buick to the table if it didn’t exist at all.
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 14:21, STARS: 0
As much as I would love this, it likely wouldn’t sell.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
08/12/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
And a mid-engine Vette would? Cadillac needs to head-to-head with Audi. They’d sell.
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
08/12/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 2
Because the people who buy trucks instead of minivans see big power numbers and false promises of good fuel economy, plus when your last mid level V8 was the 3V 5.4 Triton, you can’t get much worse going to turbos.
If GM offered a turbo 6 in a truck as a mid level motor with no option of a V8, I’d be taking my money elsewhere and I personally know multiple people who would do the same.
"atfsgeoff" (atfsgeoff)
08/12/2017 at 14:34, STARS: 1
Somewhere down the line I’d love to see the Corvette offered with a newly designed inline 6, called the Blue Flame II
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 14:37, STARS: 0
Damn near 40% of Buick’s US sales come from the Encore, a market slot that the XT3 would help fill. Hell I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing a GMC variant of the Encore in its place if it meant GM would reduce their US market to a single sub-luxury brand.
The lecture on the sub-luxury to luxury relationship really isn’t necessary here either. My gripe isn’t with them having a sub-luxury brand, its with them having two...
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 0
Except the 3.5L EcoBoost sees better real-world fuel economy in all unloaded situations... The 5.4L comment doesn’t make much sense either as you just brought up the 5.0L... If you really need the V8 though there’s still the 6.2L in my massively hypothetical lineup.
"2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered" (2fast2furiousfc3s)
08/12/2017 at 14:44, STARS: 6
I feel like you don’t do proper research before writing these. I would suggest looking at sales data before writing these. Buick outsells Audi and Lincoln every year recently, why would we not want their money? And the sales data on v8 Silverado would show you that a v8 in a 1500 is almost a nessasary in the gm trucks. I never understood where this comes from, is it gut feeling? Because I feel like your not really on sales but how much you can change for no reason.
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 14:45, STARS: 0
Honestly yes, I think so. I think a Cadillac R8 fighter would be insanely cool, but I think they could accomplish the same goal with just the Vette.
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
Nearly 40% of Buick sales come from the Encore, this sales gap would be filled (at least in part) by the XT3.
The 3.5L EcoBoost is the top selling engine in the F150 and the 5.3L in its current form won’t be emissions compliant much longer...
"PS9" (PS9)
08/12/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 2
Damn near 40% of Buick’s US sales come from the Encore...
Buick selling a lot of crossovers at a time when customers are buying a lot of crossovers is problematic because...?
...a market slot that the XT3 would help fill
You mean the XT4, right? Anyway, the XT4 would not help fill that market slot because you’re not going to see the XT4 MSRP for the Encore. Conversely, the less expensive Encore will not be as nice as the XT4. The XT4 is a luxury car. The Encore is a Near luxury car. You may not care about these differences, but customers do, to the extent that an entire segment had to be made to cater to them. It cannot be ignored.
My gripe isn’t with them having a sub-luxury brand, its with them having two...
...which was the point of the lecture. They don’t have two. They have one sub-luxury brand(Buick), and one full-luxury brand (Cadillac). You can’t buy a CTS new for Under $30k. You can’t get a Regal that is as fast as an M5. These differences matter to customers and are required for considering where they are relative to each other in the market, even if you don’t want to see why.
"2Fast2Furious: Rotary Powered" (2fast2furiousfc3s)
08/12/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
So we say no to 60% of people’s money?
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
08/12/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 1
"shpuker" (shpuker)
08/12/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 0
No I mean the XT3 that I proposed above... If you really feel like a sub-luxury compact CUV is necessary shift it to GMC.
Are you trying to argue that GMC isn’t sub-luxury or just doesn’t exist?
Outside of CUVs/SUVs their large cars are dropping in sales quickly, leaving only the Verano and Regal as having any longevity. Now if you want to advocate keeping a brand around for its ability to deliver on two vehicles that couldn’t be absorbed into the rest of the company that’s fine, but we’re not going to see eye to eye there.
"PS9" (PS9)
08/12/2017 at 16:14, STARS: 2
Well the XT3 isn’t happening. That comes from Nychssen himself. The next crossover from caddy is going to be the XT4.
Are you trying to argue that GMC isn’t sub-luxury or just doesn’t exist?
I would argue that GMC is not sub-luxury. ‘But their products are so expensive!’ you say? Yeah, I know. You check out american SUV prices lately?
Tahoe: $47k
Suburban: $49k
Durango: $29k
Expedition: $47k
Yukon: $49k
‘murican manufactures apparently got the idea that customers will pay almost anything for an SUV, so long as it has an american badge on it. The durango is the only outlier. Everywhere else, a non-luxury, american, large SUV is a $50k car now, and all of these can be optioned up to $60k if you want. You need a little bit more than a large price tag to be a near luxury brand; I’ve sat in most of these myself, and the Tahoe is clearly built to a cost. There are Hyundais with better interiors than it. GM and the other guys are clearly making margin with these, as the $50k doesn’t get you much in terms of luxury. But their customers are apparently fine with that, so...¯\_()_/¯
Outside of CUVs/SUVs their large cars are dropping in sales quickly, leaving only the Verano and Regal as having any longevity.
You’ve just described the entire market in a nutshell. It’s not just GM; everyone’s sedans are falling off a cliff. Even the almighty Camry, 20 year non-truck vehicle sales champion, is threatened by the crossover takeover. I’m sure you’ve noticed the moves everyone is making; try to make them look more handsome (Impala, Regal), make faster hot versions, (Caddy’s V series, Fusion sport, Taurus SHO), try to convince people it’s really a sports car (Maxima, and now the Camry), just rip off Bentley (New Continental), Dilute your own luxury brand (VW Arteon) or just try for all the marbles and strike out at the germans immediately (Stinger).
It’s not really a grand indictment against Buick that one of their sedans in this environment is still viable competition. If the regal is still successful in an environment where sedans overall are dropping, then that is a testament to the strength of the brand.
Now if you want to advocate keeping a brand around for its ability to deliver on two vehicles that couldn’t be absorbed into the rest of the company that’s fine, but we’re not going to see eye to eye there.
If the brand is healthy and growing and it’s products are selling well, why do they need to be ‘absorbed into the company’? Cancelling models and consolidating brands is what you do when your products aren’t selling. Buick’s are.
"CRider" (crider)
08/12/2017 at 16:14, STARS: 2
The Corvette is already mid engine. FIGHT ME.
"Shift24" (the-nope)
08/12/2017 at 19:56, STARS: 0
Dropping an entry level v8 entirely for the Silverado and triplet SUVs is completely against what GM is right now. There is too much profit in those to even touch them. I agree they need to add a turbo v6 option but dropping the new 5.3l won’t happen for another 10 years. Despite the fact that FCA flashes there hemi logo on everything, GM has always been king of the V8. It’s their bread and butter and cheaper to make with way better reliability. And the emissions stuff is an excuse and bs. They have said that through out the years and GM has always been compliant.
Also they need to kill the sonic. Useless and doesnt sell and GM want you to buy a Camaro or Corvette not a something with affordable performance like a Cruze SS or Sonic SS.
"Justino6969" (justino6969)
08/14/2017 at 16:44, STARS: 0
I get 22mpg highway/20mpg overall in my full size 4WD 5.3L, and I have a heavy foot. I don’t exactly consider that dog-shit. And it’s a great performer; makes the same numbers as the 6.0 in my dad’s 2500. If anything, get rid of or revise the 6.0L.
"RT" (rt-p)
01/10/2018 at 07:53, STARS: 0
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