by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 08/11/2017 at 11:37
by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 08/11/2017 at 11:37
No Tags
STARS: 1
Which one tows more?
The answer will suprise yo....Its a tie.
The Zr2 suspension apparently down-rates the towing to 5000 lbs. Also, it has less payload than a base chevy equinox. For real. 1100 lbs. Granted its not much worse than the Tacoma at 1175, but with the Tacoma you aren’t going to feel bad ripping out those leafs and shocks for some heavier stuff if you need to where you wouldn’t dare tear out the fancy DSSV shocks or mess with the spring rates. I guess you could airbag but still.
Its also got bigger tires than the TRD pro but worse angles everywhere but departure, pluse worse running ground clearance somehow.
I think the ZR2 is neat and all but for touring, anyone looking to tow or for anyone who likes to mod...I don’t know.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
08/11/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 0
“But muh bof”
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
08/11/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 2
So if you have to choose between the two, just get a Buick Roadmaster?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 3
thats the takeaway I was building up to.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
08/11/2017 at 11:46, STARS: 2
Are we comparing the ZR2 with the TRD Pro, or to the Honda Minivan-with-a-truckbed?
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
08/11/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 2
But it looks so good in this photo tearing up a sensitive desert ecosystem.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 0
For towing? The Honda. For everything else, the Toyota.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
08/11/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 0
I recently saw one of those Pilot pickups and the bed was fully loaded with dirt. The rear wheels looked liked they were stanced with what I’m assuming was an overweight load. It looked as if something, maybe the exhaust was nearly dragging on the ground.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
08/11/2017 at 11:56, STARS: 1
But if you tow anything with a Tacoma you get the Sag.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 0
now imagine what a ZR2 with the same load would look like, since the Ridgeline has 500 lbs more payload.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
08/11/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 1
Honestly can’t say I’m surprised. All vehicles are compromises, and more “focused” vehicles just mean there was less room to compromise in favour of other abilities.
If you tried to turn the Ridgeline into an offroader (with a cutting torch and a welder you can do anything. Yes you can) you’d end up with the same result. Likewise I’m pretty sure the Ridgeline could have been set up to out-tow a normal Colorado, but it’s party piece—the car-like ride and handling—would be gone.
In other words all the animals are equal but some are more equal at certain things than others yada yada.
The thing that bugs me though, is the angles... surely they could have done better on that. That said it likely comes back to road manners again. More compromise. *sighs*
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
08/11/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 2
Really though. How often do people put anything close to 1000 lbs in the bed of those trucks? If you use a truck as a truck for daily hauling, you aren’t buying either. Maybe a couple crotch rockets in the bed, but even 2 liter bikes won’t top the payload.
5,000 lbs isn’t a ton - get it? I kill myself - but it is sufficient for 99% of the average persons needs. If you are routinely going over 5,000 lbs. you aren’t buying either truck.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
08/11/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 0
I’d take the Colorado Z71 and its full-time 4wd over any Tacoma. As long as GM throws a bunch of money on the hood to make up for the difference in depreciation, of course.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 0
oh the Tacoma has pathetic payload too, no question, but you wont feel bad adding a leaf to the tacoma whereas you might in the ZR2 because of what it would do to the carefully tuned shocks.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 1
The angles are a results of the floor being lower in the Colorado...compromises indeed.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/spicy-tacos-1788466803
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 1
The truth is that 5000 lbs and 1100 lbs is enough for many people, but if you have a 5000 lbs trailer would you rather have it behind a truck that can tow 5000, or one that can tow 6500?
As for 1000 lbs of stuff? um...all the time. Lets not forget that 1100 lbs is PAYLOAD not bed load. Meaning 4 buddies and your camping gear may put you over limit.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 0
I thought only the GMC got the full time, and I don’t think its full time, just automatic engagement.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
08/11/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 1
Also, if you’re hauling that weight... and this goes for the regular Colorado as well at ~7000lbs... you’d be far happier in a full size. Sure the truck will pull it but it’ll get pushed around a lot.
In the old Colorado, when they added the V8 the tow rating only went up by 500lbs. The engine could take more but the truck was just too small and light for it.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
08/11/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 0
I’m guessing completely broken
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 0
it would certainly not look dignified.
"GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo" (jackolson)
08/11/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 1
It should be noted that the Colorado ZR2 has nearly the same payload capacity as the 17 Ford Raptor and is at a 1,000lb towing disadvantage. I’ve driven the ZR2 a bit and its really impressive how controlled it is compared to the Raptor, and its much nicer than the Toyota on the inside IMO.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:10, STARS: 0
holy crap its THAT low. (it is 1200 in the 4 door though) That’s unfortunate. Of course, its easy to see why.
take a look at those spaghetti string leafs.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
08/11/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 0
Yeah... road manners. Passenger comfort. They get a couple more inches headroom without jacking the CoG up super high.
Which makes me wonder: why, for the ZR2, wouldn’t they just give it a little more lift and widen the track just hair more? That would put it within striking distance of the Taco numbers, and it’s not like it’s a massive change... they’ve already done those things, just not enough.
Also on modability... yeah, the Raptor had the same issue. It’s a finely honed tool already and the same mods that would get you lots of benefit on a normal truck do nothing at best and break it at worst. At this point you gotta pay to play.
It all comes down to this: I love the ZR2 regardless, and am thrilled that it exists, but if I was really in that market I would probably buy an ordinary Colorado and do the mods myself.
"RutRut" (RDR)
08/11/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 1
Nothing here is shocking, Raptor capacities go down compared to a F-150, no reason to think the ZR2 wouldn’t be the same. And angles only matter to crawlers, neither the ZR2 or Raptor are really intended to be crawling. Great trucks to go to the dunes, some basic trails and maybe bomb around some fire roads with but if you want to crawl just buy something short wheelbase and be done with it.
Specificity is the death of overall capability. If you want to do something really well you are going to suck at some other stuff.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 1
I like the ZR2....but they need to offer those lockers without the DSSV shocks for people who want to built up a touring machine.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:14, STARS: 0
its a dealbreaker for me because I need capacity. 1100 lbs payload just isn’t going to cut it for what I would want to use it for.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
08/11/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 1
The Ridgeline is genuinely appealing. It’s the perfect truck for people that don’t need a truck.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
08/11/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 0
As for 1000 lbs of stuff? um...all the time. Lets not forget that 1100 lbs is PAYLOAD not bed load. Meaning 4 buddies and your camping gear may put you over limit.
I was going to mention this but I couldn’t remember for sure. But that being said, it’s not a full half ton pickup and that rating is over half a ton. In that regard it’s better than some Ram’s.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 0
I tend to agree.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 1
Thats true, but Rams payload are HILARIOUSLY bad.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
08/11/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 2
Considering the market they’re aiming for, I’d compare it to the Raptor, JK rubicon, and even the power wagon. Both the Raptor and Jk have payloads between 1,000-1,200 pounds, so this is right there. The 2017 power wagon only has a payload of 1,500, which can drop to 1,200-1,300 with options. Considering the non-Power Wagon version has a payload of 3,300, that’s a significant drop.
The gist of it is compliant suspensions, which are needed for articulation, aren’t great for heavy loads. Conversely, stronger suspensions don’t articulate as well. Its all a balancing act.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
08/11/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 0
There’s another thing.
I just don’t get why they’d build a truck that’s all about “screw the halfassery this thing will EAT YOU” and then half ass it (or 3/4 ass it, but still).
It’s like they went balls out and then chickened out when they saw the proposed price tag.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:22, STARS: 0
its inline with the market, and as I said its right there with the Toyota and frankly these are the right numbers for many people...but if you want to uprate it you are going to have to forgo the suspension that makes it special.
As for the powerwagon, did you know you can get the package on the tradesman and still get the 3000+ lbs payload? Now THATS a touring machine in a box!
The Wrangler payload is pathetic, btw. its LESS than 1000 lbs.
"RutRut" (RDR)
08/11/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 0
But you had to expect a capacity hit to get the more offroad oriented suspension package. Even if you go aftermarkert to someone like Carli or Mazzula you are going to take some payload capability out to get better performance offroad. It really comes down to if the off road capability is more important than capacity for you.
"Nibby" (nibby68)
08/11/2017 at 12:26, STARS: 0
Just buy a Miata for off riding and if you need to tow, get a real SUV like the Kia Niro
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
08/11/2017 at 12:27, STARS: 0
The Ram Body Builder website (great resource for dodge trucks), lists all power wagons as 1,510 payload for 2017. Basically, it can only go down from there.
Before the upgraded the rear suspension for comfort in 2015-2016, the payloads were 1,7-1,800 lbs.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:28, STARS: 0
yes and no. If you want to run an speed you need to factor in weight. Chevy clearly did that while tuning the dssv which means the payload and towing suffer. Would it be possible to tune it towards heavier springs with the assumption that you will be running fast with weight? You bet, but they didn’t (and for good reason). What Im saying is paying for suspension that doesn’t suite my needs doesn’t make sense. I can get a TRD (not pro) and build up my suspension for performance at a given load for less money.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:32, STARS: 0
huh, you used to be able to order the power wagon package on a tradesman. looks like thats gone for this year.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
08/11/2017 at 12:34, STARS: 0
I think you still can, but the payload doesn’t change. It just doesn’t have all the tech and graphics.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 0
intesesting, you used to be able to get a high payload power wagon. It was basically a tradesman with the lockers, sway bar disconnects, winch and articulink, but with the heavier springs from the tradesman.
In the case of the new power wagons, I would guess it would be as easy as swapping in the heavier springs from a tradesman.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
08/11/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
I presume, but who knows. If you look at the last three generations of power wagon, the payloads keep getting smaller as they switch to coil suspension. I don’t need 3,000 lbs payload, but if I’m buying a 7,000lb truck, I would like closer to 2,000.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
08/11/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 0
Meaning 4 buddies and your camping gear may put you over limit.
You need skinnier friends.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 13:08, STARS: 0
or less camping gear? You’de be shocked how much that stuff adds up to.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
08/11/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
Both? I’m of the opinion people generally take way to much gear camping.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 0
Extra water and gas adds up.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
08/11/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 1
but to the TRD pro and the ZR2 are purpose built offroad machines, where the non PROs and ZR2 are utility trucks.
no one with a sane mind will buy a raptor as a Towing rig.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 0
people tow with raptors all the time. If you like the toy life, you gotta tow those toys with something, right?
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
08/11/2017 at 13:36, STARS: 0
GM calls it Autotrac. For 2016 it was only on GMC Canyon but for 2017 it’s on all Colorado trims except for WT.
It’s my understanding that it’s some kind of NVG transfer case with an electrically-actuated clutch that responds with varying degrees of clutch slip/lock to send a certain amount of power to the front wheels depending on rear wheelspin. So it’s not quite exactly an LSD effect but it’s also not an auto on/off switch to the front wheels, it’s variable.
Can still put it in 2H or 4H locked if desired.
There’s an automatic rear locker standard on the Z71, optional on WT and LT. ZR2 has front and rear e-lockers.
For on-road cruising/towing with foul weather and off-road capability, Z71 with Autotrac & auto rear locker is pretty dang solid. Doesn’t have the fancy ZR2 shocks and front/rear e-lockers but it’ll do.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
08/11/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 0
you can tow with a raptor, as you can tow with the other two, but towing is not what they are made for. All of them can tow dirt bikes/atvs/utvs easily.
Even the Raptor has less towing capacity than a comparable F150 XLT
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 13:45, STARS: 0
its probably a version of the borg warner TOD system or at least works on similar principles. Not quite full time 4wd, but as the name suggests, as much front axle engagement as needed when needed.
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"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 0
it all boils down to tuning. if you want to run fast you have to assume a weight, given that no one runs fast with a trailer they assume a light load and they make their springs to match that load. Thats great and all if you don’t even play to carry or tow things I suppose but it does limit you if you do. The trouble is with the ZR2/RAPTOR its that you wouldn’t buy either of them to turn around and mess with the suspension to carry a load.
For me, the ZR2 is less appealing now because of this fact - I don’t need to run fast but I want the diesel, the lockers and the beefy lower control arms. for me it now makes a lot more sense to buy a lesser model and mod up to my needs...which is a bummer since you can’t get a lot of that great stuff without bringing cost back in.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
08/11/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 0
Isuzu Trooper TOD!
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 14:17, STARS: 0
yup, thats the Borg Warner unit. I suspect the GM one is the same deal.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
08/11/2017 at 14:19, STARS: 1
every thing has advantages/consequences. There is and never will be a master of all.
And My 2014 CVT pathfinder can tow as much as that Ridgeline. Plus it seats my family plus our stuff.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 14:25, STARS: 0
Im just saying im disappointed that they went the “fast” route instead of just tuning the dampers to work with the existing springs so that it would be a more all rounder.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
08/11/2017 at 14:31, STARS: 0
but like the Raptor it’s a Purpose made off roader
If they would of made it an all rounder people would of complained it’s not great offroader. You are looking at the wrong truck my friend for your needs
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/11/2017 at 14:34, STARS: 0
well its a prupose built fast offroader. Not all off-roading is fast.
"Wacko" (wacko--)
08/11/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 1
Are you trying to convince yourself that you need a Pro Taco?
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
08/11/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 0
GM uses New Venture Gear a.k.a. Magna.
"nermal" (nermal)
08/11/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 0
A stripped out Ram 2500 gas / crew cab / 4x4 can be had for about $35k.
An AEV Prospector conversion with 37s, a winch and lockers is about $20k.
So, for $55k, you can have a truck that will handle just as much, or more off road, while still keeping the higher payload capacity. Plus more interior room and towing capacity. It’s slightly larger and not as well equipped for high speed off road stuff though, so you’ll have to plan accordingly.
