by "Porsche was my first word" (porschewasmyfirstword)
Published 08/01/2017 at 14:03
by "Porsche was my first word" (porschewasmyfirstword)
Published 08/01/2017 at 14:03
Tags: Ferrari
; F40
; lightweight
; demuro
; doug
; blueprint
; porsche
; gt3
; gt3 rs
STARS: 0
All this babble about being lightweight by the sports car manufacturers and wannabes), I can’t hear that anymore.
Have a look at that 30 year old Ferrari F40. THAT is how you make a lightweight car. Even the current Porsche 911 GT3 RS weighs more (from about 100lb to 360lb, depending on source).
Have a look at Doug DeMuro’s F40 portrayal.
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"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
08/01/2017 at 14:06, STARS: 1
“It’s a Woody Ford Flex. I don’t know which is rarer but I hope it’s that.”
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
08/01/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 0
Please. That thing weighs a shitload. My car is almost 500lbs lighter.
"Echo51" (echo2047)
08/01/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 0
People don’t want to compromise comfort and such things for the weight. Also design/how nice the interior and such looks.
"Porsche was my first word" (porschewasmyfirstword)
08/01/2017 at 14:12, STARS: 0
My car is almost 500lbs lighter.
Which is a ...?
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
08/01/2017 at 14:14, STARS: 0
DX Civic.
"Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street." (demon-xanth)
08/01/2017 at 14:15, STARS: 0
In my household we have a 2008 Miata. It’s not the lightest vehicle. My Corvair with it’s seating for four, roomy trunk, and six cylinder engine is a massive 400LBs lighter. But far more likely to kill you in an accident or merely by asphyxiation.
"RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire" (ricerocketeer2)
08/01/2017 at 14:19, STARS: 1
unicycle, imaginary
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
08/01/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 0
Dodge Ram
"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
08/01/2017 at 15:29, STARS: 0
Doesn’t it weigh over 3000 lbs? I wouldn’t call that a blueprint, considering the inside was stripped. I realize the F40 is a wide car, but 30 years later the Cayman GT4 weighs almost exactly the same, and it’s got a hell of a lot more electronics, safety equipment, and creature comforts than an F40.
I love the F40, but it wasn’t much lighter than the 959 at the time....probably the same weight if you similarly equipped/stripped the inside of the Porsche.
"Porsche was my first word" (porschewasmyfirstword)
08/01/2017 at 15:49, STARS: 0
Doesn’t it weigh over 3000 lbs?
Just over, depending on the source. Seems that US models were quiet a bit heavier.
the inside was stripped.
How a a sports car should be if you want to call it lightweight.
30 years later the Cayman GT4
Isn’t cutting edge tech. With a twin turbo V8, CAD and what not I would expect a potential Ferrari F70 to make way over 1,000 hp and weigh less than 2,200 lb. Maybe 2,700 if you add a hybrid system, but add another 300 hp then please.
a lot more electronics, safety equipment, and creature comforts than an F40.
Which is the whole point of the F40.
I love the F40, but it wasn’t much lighter than the 959 at the time....
At least 200lb more for the Porsche. Depending on source of course.
probably the same weight if you similarly equipped/stripped the inside of the Porsche.
Just remove the AWD and you’d be in the ballpark.
See, I don’t say there is NO other good car. In fact I would prefer a lot of cars over the F40. McLaren did a fantastic job on F1 as well as on the P1 e.g.
But if you follow the F40-formula the most (sports) cars which claim to be lightweight are just a sham in comparison.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
08/01/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 0
The 959 was never federalized for the US market. A Euro-market F40 has a dry weight of just over 2400 pounds and its curb weight is 400 pounds lighter than a 959 (though Car and Driver listed its curb weight in their test at 3500 pounds.). Everything federalized for the US market has to be heavier. For the US market, the F40 got fuel tanks instead of the European fuel bladders that have to be replaced every few years, for example.
Not sure why you compare it to a Porsche 30 years newer. The whole point of the F40 (and why it is so celebrated and valuable) is that it is the last completely analog and unfiltered supercar, with no concessions given to road comfort.
"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
08/01/2017 at 16:29, STARS: 0
My point was that I don’t consider a 3,000 lb (curb-US) car to be ‘lightweight’. That’s all.
"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
08/01/2017 at 16:30, STARS: 0
I guess I just have a different view of calling something a ‘blueprint’ for a lightweight car when it weighted over 3,000 pounds. (3018 lbs curb weight, per R&T)
The car it replaced, the 288 GTO, was 2557 lbs (curb weight per multiple sources including Wiki).
While the F40 was a leap in performance and technology, but that came at the cost of being almost 375 lbs heavier. As well as also 4x the price.
I’d have a hard time choosing between a GTO and an F40 (and would probably take either over a 959), but I’d only call the GTO ‘lightweight’.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
08/01/2017 at 16:50, STARS: 0
You’re still comparing apples to oranges by quoting the F40's 3018 curb weight in US spec trim. The 288 GTO and 959 are european market cars only.
(though although the US spec F40 is heavier it also had a bit more power)
"Porsche was my first word" (porschewasmyfirstword)
08/01/2017 at 16:56, STARS: 0
The car it replaced, the 288 GTO, was 2557 lbs ... While the F40 was ... almost 375 lbs heavier
That’s light. Also the 288 is one of my top favorite cars ever.
It’s only 200lb in Euro-spec though.
Keep in mind the 288 was a race car in the first place. The F40 was not.
As well as also 4x the price.
As mentioned, the GTO was a homologation model. They needed to sell at least 200 to be allowed to take part in the Group B rally championship. So they priced it accordingly. Sadly Group B was stopped and the GTO wouldn’t have had chance against the AWD cars.
Fun fact: 70 of 272 GTO ever built burnt down. They were all salvaged.
I just have a different view of calling something a ‘blueprint’.
Blueprint just means “plan” to me. I didn’t say the F40 was perfectly executed. But the plan is right.
But whatever, I think, we could argue forever.
"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
08/01/2017 at 17:02, STARS: 0
I’d appreciate it if you’d stop confusing the issue with facts. (Based on the amount of leather in the 288GTO, it was likely even heavier than the F40. )
Point taken, I’ll be quiet now.
"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
08/01/2017 at 17:12, STARS: 0
Agreed. And if my latest (and last!) search is right, the GTO was actually heavier ! (by 50 lbs, likely all of that being leather...)
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ferrari/288_gto/288_gto/1984.html
"Porsche was my first word" (porschewasmyfirstword)
08/01/2017 at 17:19, STARS: 1
Agreed. And if my latest (and last!) search is right
Yeah, of course! It’s too much fun arguing about cars. Best way to waste time. And we are all a little more educated now, not at least thanks to
Saracen, Manual Douche Elitist.
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