by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 06/30/2017 at 21:02
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 06/30/2017 at 21:02
No Tags
STARS: 6
When GM pretty much said fuck it, and put V8's in their fwd full size cars as a performance trim:
Chevy Impala SS
Buick Lucerne and Lacrosse Super
Pontiac Bonneville and Grand Prix GXP’s
Oddly enough, I always thought the Pontiac’s looked the best out of all of them (they sound beastly with aftermarket exhaust. On any of them) Even more odd is that all of these, with the exception of the Impala SS, are kind of hard to find, especially the Buick’s and the Bonneville. But ill never forget them.
"cmill189 - sans Volvo" (cmill189)
06/30/2017 at 21:16, STARS: 1
I drove one of the Impalas. Could easily roast the front tires, even from a role. God-awful to look at though.
"Birddog" (maintmgt)
06/30/2017 at 21:21, STARS: 1
All three were on my short list for the next dogmobile. I really want RWD though.
The Buicks are all over the place out here in the Dubuque area. Not for sale but actually on the road. I’m betting they’ll make good one/two owner used cars soon.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 21:24, STARS: 0
Yea rental fleet special styling. But a beast and a great sleeper.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 21:25, STARS: 0
Yea I did a search there’s like 1 or 2 of each for sale near me. All under 10 grand with the exception of a clean, low mileage Lucerne Super. Has about 75 thousand miles for 11 grand. But Northstar repair bills arent fun.
"Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast" (danimalk)
06/30/2017 at 21:29, STARS: 1
Don’t forget the Monte Carlo SS!
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/30/2017 at 21:31, STARS: 0
The only 2000s Impala I’ve ever had the misfortune of driving was an SS. It felt slow, the suspension, and steering were as bland as any other “not a Camry”, and the interior was straight garbage. I’d rather drive a facelifted Sebring “Chrysler 200S” with the PentaStar. Or any 2010 and up Linclon MKS. I bet the Lincoln with the 3.7l is faster too.
Actually the 06 SS supposedly did 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, but idk it still failed to be exciting to me.
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
06/30/2017 at 21:40, STARS: 1
I had a purple loaner Bonneville GXP, and that thing could break the front wheels loose on the interstate. I remember embarrassing some of my friends Hondas, TCs, Eclipses, etc while my GTO was in the shop. lol
"itschrome" (itschrome)
06/30/2017 at 22:19, STARS: 1
Yeah but that engine was trash. The rest had post 2001 northstars. The 5.3 was such trash in this aplication..
"itschrome" (itschrome)
06/30/2017 at 22:23, STARS: 0
They ahould have never killed the northstar!!!
"jdrgoat - Ponticrack?" (jdrgoat)
06/30/2017 at 22:33, STARS: 3
Curious that you didn’t distinguish between the engines available in the cars. One of the Buicks and the Pontiac had the Northstar. Some might say it was about time that that engine was fitted to something other than a Cadillac. Which also brings up the fact that you didn’t mention any fwd V8 Cadillacs, which dated back to the 80's and included a few generations of engines.
The other cars used the LS4, which was mostly as it sounds. It was an LS V8 adapted to fwd use. Special compact water pump, and it uses the GM Metric fwd bellhousing (which still hasn’t made it an easy/popular option for a Fiero). Someone else mentioned the Monte Carlo SS, which was of course just the 2 door version of the W-body Impala. There was also the Grand Prix GXP which was somehow missed.
Side note on the GP GXP, as long as I’m rambling. Yes, the GP and the Impala were nearly the same underneath. But it’s pretty different when it came to the tuning. And of course it wasn’t all better. The GP GXP was (and this is a good thing) an unusual car, if not the only one, with staggered wheels/tires that put the wide ones on front. Supposedly that helped torque steer, but also traction and reducing oversteer. Unfortunately, to reduce torque steer it also had a taller final drive ratio. I say “unfortunately,” because all of these cars only had 4 speed automatics. Meaning 2nd gear was good for nearly 100mph. That made the TapShift feature... redundant.
Enough rambling.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
06/30/2017 at 23:01, STARS: 0
supercharged 3800>LS in these applications
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 23:08, STARS: 0
The 5.3 made the car tolerable. But you sure you arent talking about this Imapa SS? The one with the Supercharged 3800?
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 23:09, STARS: 1
Yea any of these could easily smoke the front tires with the slightest launch. Wrong wheels, but still fantastic.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 23:10, STARS: 0
Repair costs were too much.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 23:16, STARS: 0
Yea I remembered last minute that the Lucerne, Bonneville (and Olds Auroa 4.6) had the distinction of using the Northstar. The Buick and Pontiac were probably would have had the distinction of being the last GM cars to use the Northstar if the DTS hadn’t lasted until 2011. I didn’t mention Cadillac fwd V8's because 1. they were V8's by default of being a Cadillac and 2. most if not all times they weren’t V8's specifically in performance trims.
I didn’t know about the staggered wheels on the Pontiac. That’s interesting and makes me like them even more. But the 4 speed autos did nothing for the cars. And Tapshift, while my 15 year old self thought cool, was pretty much pointless now that I look back on it.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 23:17, STARS: 0
Wow really? Why?
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
06/30/2017 at 23:22, STARS: 1
Something something torque steer.
That’s really the only argument.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
06/30/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 0
a transverse V6 is enough of a PITA. Lose a spark plug on one of these and I’ll set it on fire.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
06/30/2017 at 23:38, STARS: 0
im not sure what youre really getting that a warmed over 3800 s/c doesn’t give you. its not like you’re short of power with one.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/30/2017 at 23:43, STARS: 0
Nope never driven one of those, but I have driven the Boniville with the Supercharged 3800. It was okay. But they same case where the engine didn’t really make the car lively, or fun, just quicker.
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
06/30/2017 at 23:45, STARS: 0
The 3800 is still a 90° V6. The LS4 isn’t going to be any better or worse for getting at the rear bank of plugs, there’s just one more of them.
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
06/30/2017 at 23:45, STARS: 0
No doctoring and a warranty?
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
06/30/2017 at 23:54, STARS: 0
A warranty on a 10 year old Wbody?
"QCGoose" (chrismcfate)
06/30/2017 at 23:56, STARS: 0
It could have been a ‘00-’03 SS that wasn’t even supercharged; just a standard 3.8 with 195 hp.
I still can’t believe the way Chevy threw around the “SS” name back then. It was pitiful.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 23:59, STARS: 0
4 more cylinders and 63 more horses over the 3800. Not to mention the sound and torque you get. The 3800, while smooth, was overused. Any old Impala SS, Park Avenue Ultra/Regal GS didnt feel special in the way these did.
"Discerning" (discerning2003c5z)
06/30/2017 at 23:59, STARS: 1
These had a tendency to eat transmissions, even stock.
The northstar models had a number of issues
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 00:00, STARS: 1
The 3800 in the SSEI and all the other GM cars of that era was pretty much the same experience all around.
"QCGoose" (chrismcfate)
07/01/2017 at 00:01, STARS: 1
Not only was the 4speed sluggish and overgeared (on top of making the TapShift completely pointless), but apparently those transmissions may as well have been made of glass, as they were absolutely not up to the task of handling the V8's power and most die well before seeing higher mileage.
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 00:07, STARS: 1
Yea that’s one thing I didn’t like from that Bob Lutz Gm era: he got his toys approved for production, most of which didn’t do well and the SS got whored out and diluted the badge. Just in the 00's there was the:
Silverado SS
Trailblazer SS
Colbalt SS
Malibu SS along with the Maxx SS
SSR (in a way)
Silverado Intimidator SS
HHR
Impala
And none of them lived up to the badge with the exception of the Trailblazer SS and the later Cobalt SS’ with the 260 horse Ecotec.
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 00:08, STARS: 0
Really? I never heard about that. Could it have been the power output in the fwd cars? And yea the Northstar just wasnt good all around.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
07/01/2017 at 00:09, STARS: 0
Nope it was one of these.
Had to be an 06 as Laser Blue was a one year only color. Actually a great color too it has a bit of a purple flip to it in the sun.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
07/01/2017 at 00:11, STARS: 1
The HHR also got that power train you could even get it as a panel van.
"QCGoose" (chrismcfate)
07/01/2017 at 00:14, STARS: 1
Ah, then yes, the 303 hp LS4. The transmission is really what ruins these. Four loooooong gears, sluggish response, and they’re fragile as hell.
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
07/01/2017 at 00:14, STARS: 0
2 more cylinders. that said, just imagine a V10 in any of these puppies!
"Discerning" (discerning2003c5z)
07/01/2017 at 00:17, STARS: 1
The transmission they used is a revised version of a box that was rated for only 280 lbft. Can’t find the exact torque rating of the revised version, but they did very little to adapt it for use with the ls4
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
07/01/2017 at 00:23, STARS: 1
That’s a good point, a 4 speed sluch box built for economy is a great way to ruin a car.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
07/01/2017 at 00:47, STARS: 0
There’s nothing special about these.
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 00:52, STARS: 1
Theywould probably explode.
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
07/01/2017 at 00:53, STARS: 1
But they killed it just as it was truly getting good. A third generation Northstar could have finally been the recipe they were looking for.
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
07/01/2017 at 00:55, STARS: 1
Cobalt SS and the HHR SS were both really good, so I’ve heard.
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
07/01/2017 at 00:58, STARS: 1
If anyone is in the market for one of these, go for the LaCrosse. GM’s performance division was told to make the most of it in an effort to usher in the new era of a sportier Buick (the one that gives us such wonderful things as the new Regal Turbo and GS), and they don’t fuck around (they’re the geniuses behind the CTS-V and ZR1). They’re also quiet as fuck, and have the nicest interior of all of them.
Lucerne would be a close second for me because I love the Northstar. But if I’m really buying a mid-2000s Northstar, it’d be the DTS Performance Collection.
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 10:04, STARS: 0
I’ve never seen nor heard of the DTS performance collection.
"jdrgoat - Ponticrack?" (jdrgoat)
07/01/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 1
I forgot about the Oldsmobile Aurora! I shouldn’t have, I still really like the second gen ones. Side note, though, the Aurora V8 was actually a 4.0L, a smaller bored Northstar.
That’s what I figured for Cadillac’s absence. But while Cadillac may not have made performance version with those engines, that didn’t stop people from putting them wherever they would fit on their own. Did you know that the Citation, which lent its driveline to the rear of the Fiero, has also been used as a recepient of the V8 Cadillac drivetrain, in fwd? In my search for a picture, I found an old
Jalopnik link
instead!
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
07/01/2017 at 21:16, STARS: 1
It was a monochrome exterior package, plus a higher-performance version of the engine from the standard DTS with a few more ponies. I think they were the second highest trim to the Platinum.