by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 06/29/2017 at 17:54
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 06/29/2017 at 17:54
Tags: ford thunderbird
STARS: 1
Retro styling was all the rage at the turn of the century, with multiple concepts and some production cars drawing on designs of yesteryear: the 05 Mustang redesign, Chevy’s SSR and Bel Air Concept etc. Some of those cars would not win over many and still don’t resonate well today. The Thunderbird was one of those cars.
Originally debuting as a yellow concept at the 99 Detroit show, it was a smash hit. So much so that Ford commissioned 2 more prototypes to be built for the circuit: a red one and a black one. Ford officially approved the design in May 2000 with it going into production that November for the 01' model year.
Riding on the DEW 98 platform that underpinned the Lincoln LS, Jaguar XF and S Type, it came with one engine: the 3.9 L AJ V8 paired with a 5 speed auto. Supposedly it was pushing 280 horses. But 0 to 60 was 6 and a half seconds. It also came with the option of both a removable hardtop (with Opera window!) or a conventional power convertible top. Not impressive, but Ford marketed it as more of a retiree special. Something that the AARP crowd would find more exciting than a Crown Vic LX Sport or the Mercury Marauder.
At one point Ford tried to gague the possiblity of livening up the Thunderbird line with the Superchageed concept seen above. Adding a supercharger to the 3.9 gave it 390 horses. But it never saw the light of day.
Dealers of course initially overcharged for them, and sales were strong at first, but declined every year. A total of 68,098 were made by the time production ended in 2005. So why did it fail? In its first year on the market, it got both Motor Trends Car of the Year and North American Car of the Year but it cooled off after that. Even today people dont think fondly about it. So where do you guys think, or know for sure where it went wrong?
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
06/29/2017 at 18:00, STARS: 3
If Chip Foose couldn’t even make it cool, I’m not sure a proper V8 and a manual trans would have (the reasons I like it, but don’t LIKE it like it)
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
06/29/2017 at 18:04, STARS: 0
I’d take one
"AuthiCooper1300" (rexrod)
06/29/2017 at 18:14, STARS: 7
I have a theory but I am not sure many people will agree with it.
The car is ugly, period.
It is not nice to look at. In my opinion its initial success was due to the fact that many people liked the concept , the idea of cars with “retro design” (sort of “hey, this new T-Bird is old style” “wow, then it must be beautiful, because we all know retro is good, right?”) without really examining it properly, let alone question it.
Worse still, I’d say it is not even proper retro, but a pastiche. Think of it as Ford’s own Z8 (the absolute pinnacle of “factory kitsch”), but on the cheap.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/29/2017 at 18:17, STARS: 0
To me it was almost too retro. Like there was nothing that could be done to it to make it cool or sporty.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/29/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 0
I would too.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
06/29/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 3
“Not impressive, but Ford marketed it as more of a retiree special. Something that the AARP crowd would find more exciting than a Crown Vic LX Sport or the Mercury Marauder.”
I’m not sure that’s a sustainable strategy right there, for any car. It went a little too far back, retro-wise. If people in their 30's and 40's don’t actually remember the car when it was new, they’re not going to yearn for it - and people in that age group (and younger) are what will sustain a car. And it was both too soft and slow to be a sports car, and not luxurious enough to be a great luxury experience, either. That interior pic is awful to me.
"AuthiCooper1300" (rexrod)
06/29/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 4
An aging demographic can literally send a whole marque to the grave, let alone a car.
Audi was entering a slippery slope in the late 70s: as a German engineer told me once, they were “driven by very afraid, hat-wearing old men, with their torso too close to the steering wheel”. Audi’s customers were simply dying of old age, and their children and grandchildren had no intention whatsoever of buying grandpa and grandma’s car.
Piëch had two options: create a new brand or reinvigorating it with what was going to be the Audi quattro (and its associated motorsports programme).
It worked, but according to Piëch himself, it was so expensive that probably a new brand would have been cheaper.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/29/2017 at 18:27, STARS: 3
If ever alsways thought it was a decent looking car, but boring under the skin. one because they cut corners like giving it the exact same interior as the LS instead of its own custom design, and also the engine and trans.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/29/2017 at 18:27, STARS: 0
Arnold Palmer. Sorry. its hot.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
06/29/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 3
Chip Foose couldn’t make a brown wagon cool.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/29/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 3
It seemed to me to evoke some retro cues, but not really in a good way. I love old cars, but this just didn’t hit the spot. Wikipedia calls it retrofuturistic, and that’s a good way to put it.
Also, it bugged me that for such a long car, it only had two seats, but for all that extra tail length, they didn’t do anything interesting with it.
"RT" (rt-p)
06/29/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 10
Where did it go wrong?
Trying to emulate the original T-Bird’s features, but without the spirit.
The result is a caricature of the Thunderbird, a Thunderpidgeon if you will.
This isn’t a cool car, it’s kitschy - simple as that.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
06/29/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 3
Amen - I think that was a contributor to the demise of a number of marques, including Oldsmobile and Mercury. And it’s been a problem for Lincoln since approximately forever, too.
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
06/29/2017 at 18:35, STARS: 1
May 2000? Well, it was the end of the Dot Com boom. Then 18 month’s later, we have a terrorist attack and market crash. All combined it probably took the wind out of the sales of the luxury/specialty car market.
Also I bet that the cars that the Thunderbird were based upon were due for re-design.
"AuthiCooper1300" (rexrod)
06/29/2017 at 18:39, STARS: 2
It’s funny... around 1995-1997 I had the chance to talk to lots of BMW people (press, engineers, marketing guys) and in private many considered the Series 8 an unmitigated disaster on practically all levels.
As a person into cars, me too. I utterly disliked it - mostly, probably, because it had replaced the Series 6, which was so interesting on so many levels, apart from so nice to look at. And a Series 6 the 8 was not.
The 8 Series was so big. It was huge, it was very in-your-face. And most were bought by millionnaire soccer stars.
And yet now it seems to me it is an
extremely
handsome car. It is not a Series 6, it is something different, and all the better for it.
(It also helps, of course, that post-Bangle BMW has become a design disaster. There are many Bangle-era BMW cars I don’t like, but at least they had character.)
"AuthiCooper1300" (rexrod)
06/29/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 0
Arnold Palmer?
By the way, did your previous comment suddenly disappear?
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/29/2017 at 18:49, STARS: 1
Yea Kinja comments are being weird that was for another article.
"AuthiCooper1300" (rexrod)
06/29/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 2
You mean the “Arnold Palmer” one was for a different article then.
OK.
So yes, sometimes we can change our opinion about cars we used to like or dislike. Time is a great leveller.
In 20 years’ time, maybe less, this Thunderbird
will
probably be appreciated – maybe just as a curio, but appreciated nonetheless.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
06/29/2017 at 19:16, STARS: 0
cool- ER
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/29/2017 at 19:39, STARS: 2
Yea the retro styling got old quick. And you’re right, for as long as it was it could have been a GT with a small backseat.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
06/29/2017 at 21:01, STARS: 2
It’s biggest problem was it never addressed what killed the Thunderbird in the first place, who wants this over a Mustang or Corvette? Is it a sports car or a GT? Is it simply a bigger Mustang? What is its reason to be?
Perhaps if they had started focusing the mustang as a smaller sports car and made the thunderbird the large GT, maybe it would have worked?
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
06/29/2017 at 21:23, STARS: 1
I...I don’t hate them. Looks like it would be a decent cruiser.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
06/29/2017 at 22:25, STARS: 2
-Expensive
-Not luxurious
-Not fast
-Looks a little boaty and a little *too* retro
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/29/2017 at 23:04, STARS: 8
The Retro Bird wasn’t where the Thunderbird went wrong. It’s simply where the Thunderbird died.
The Thunderbird started going wrong back in ‘77. That’s the year when Ford stopped thinking that the Thunderbird needed power to be considered a “Personal Luxury Coupe”. Granted, the 460 that was offered in ‘76 only had 202hp, it was still miles ahead of the 120hp 302 that was the standard engine in ‘77 (and the 135hp 351 wasn’t much of an upgrade).
From then, they gave up on the 351 when they changed to the Foxbody, gave up on V8s entirely when they changed to the MN12 (eventually bringing it back in the 4.6L), and then even gave up on the 4.6 in the Retrobird. Granted, the Turbo Coupe and the Super Coupe were performance variants that were good, but they always were less powerful and slower than the Mustang GT. The V8s were always weaker than the Mustangs V8s, the V6s were even weaker than the Mustang V6s. Plus, the Tbird was always heavier than the Mustang, even when it shared a chassis.
What exactly is wrong with the idea of the Thunderbird beating a GT in a drag race?
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/29/2017 at 23:05, STARS: 0
I like the speedster Tbird. It gets rid of that horrible protruding grill which is the worst styling feature.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/29/2017 at 23:18, STARS: 2
I don’t think it really “went wrong.” it’s just at some point people seemed to think a “retro-mobile” also had to have stonkingly balls-out performance. The Retrorbird was a nod back to the 1955 Thunderbird, which was not a fast car. You yourself even act like sub 7 second 0-60 times were somehow a bad thing. Remember that the Mustang GT at the time did 0-60 in 6 seconds.
of course, the retro exterior paired with the carryover LS interior didn’t help the theme.
!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
06/29/2017 at 23:20, STARS: 2
Mini works. Bug works. Fiat 500 works. Camaro mostly works. Challenger works. Mustang works. Charger works despite having little DNA from, say, a ‘68 like my uncle had.
This? They picked the wrong styling cues so it didn’t translate well. At least that’s my opinion.
And Katie Couric had (or has) one. ICYMI.
"sdwarf36" (sdwarf36)
06/30/2017 at 00:18, STARS: 1
.I always thought you could make a “fin kit” and make it a ‘57.
"sdwarf36" (sdwarf36)
06/30/2017 at 00:25, STARS: 2
I knew an old guy-in the auto biz + racing for 50 years- who had a teal one of these. I would love busting his balls about his T bird.
“Hey Ken-I saw another T-bird.”
“Oh really?”
“No-I was kidding-you bought the only one.”
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/30/2017 at 00:28, STARS: 3
Not to mention it wasn’t luxurious enough.
They made it slower so it wouldn’t cut into Mustang sales, which was only a problem because it wasn’t luxurious enough to be in its own market.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 00:52, STARS: 1
But the cougar was the luxo version.
However, I have owned both a fox mustang gt and a fox tbird, they were different enough. The extra size and NVH reduction was noticable. A few more optional toys would have been nice to help differentiate the two though.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 02:00, STARS: 1
You have a point. But look at Chevy. They never had any problems with toe stepping with the Vette and Camaro. Even when the Monte Carlo was in its sporty days there wasnt an issue. Maybe there is some now, but thats all over the industry. Just look at Porsche.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 02:05, STARS: 1
As the years went on it always seemed like they were purposely holding the T-Bird back so it wouldnt infringe on the Mustang, just like what Porsche had been doing with the Cayman and how it was getting close to 911 levels of performance.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 02:07, STARS: 0
They work, but you can only do so much with them design wise. Just look at the current gen Mustang and Camaro, while both recently new, still overall they are evolutionary designs from their original designs (05 for the Mustang, 09 for the Camaro).
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 02:09, STARS: 0
He probably was one of the early buyers that got the markedup cars.
"Bourbon&JellyBeans" (bourbonandjellybeans)
06/30/2017 at 07:05, STARS: 1
Even the people who were around when the original Thunderbird released probably weren’t impressed.
They went from this:
And this:
To this:
By all accounts, the last gen was not exciting, nor interesting, nor anything really special. The original Thunderbird was meant to go up against the Corvette. The latest Thunderbird was a retiree (and SaabKyle04) special.
The final nail in the Thunderbird’s coffin was that this styling didn’t age well at all. It looks swollen, bloated, and cheap. I wish they’d never given it the Thunderbird namesake.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
06/30/2017 at 08:53, STARS: 0
I think this could be part of the basis for logic why a Lincoln coupe wouldn’t be a good idea either. Like many niche vehicles, initial take is pretty strong, but then falls off precipitously afterwards.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 09:41, STARS: 1
The Cayman at least had a specific niche to fill as a baby 911. The Thunderbird was sold as the luxury performance coupe (or sedan, depending on the year). It remained big and brash even when the Mustang went small in the 70s.
But once the thought that performance wasn’t required in a “Personal Luxury Coupe”, it all went downhill. It’s not exactly an incorrect thought, luxury coupes don’t really require high horsepower, but afterward they could never let it compete with the Mustang, even when the Mustang was arguably underpowered in the 80s and 90s.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
06/30/2017 at 09:44, STARS: 1
Chevy wisely put the Corvette before the cheaper Camaro, the more expensive Thunderbird played second to the Mustang.
Porsche and Chevy figured out that the more expensive car needed the new stuff first but you can’t really blame Ford for the gamble, the Mustang far outsold the Thunderbird.
Sadly, I can’t ever see the Thunderbird coming back. The Mustang is too good right now. The Thunderbird would have to be priced in between the GT supercar and Mustang, make it a Super GT car
"Master Cylinder" (mastercylinder28)
06/30/2017 at 10:02, STARS: 0
I loved my MN-12 T-bird, but it was not a fast car even with the 4.6. I later had a ‘98 Mark VIII with the DOHC 4.6, that is the engine they should have put in the MN-12. And then given the Mark an honest Cobra engine.
I still daydream about building a ‘96-97 T-bird with a T56 and a hot V8 (used to be a supercharged Cobra 4.6, but nowadays why not a Coyote?)
It was a great chassis but it was let down badly by its powertrain.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 10:08, STARS: 1
I believe what killed the Thunderbird was a lack of “specialness”. The MN12 Thunderbird was a great chassis, smooth engine, decent interior (puts the SN95 Mustang to shame, even though it looks a bit drab), great suspension... But it looked too much like a Countour, or a Taurus, or a probe...
It just didn’t make people want it. It It was great to drive, but less exciting and slower and more expensive than the Mustang, and not visibly interesting enough to draw the non-car people away from the Taurus.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 0
The SOHC 4.6 is a pretty good engine, but it really could have used more power. I’d say that the SOHC 4.6 NPI should have been the base engine with the DOHC as optional. The Mark VIII could have either had a better tune or something to give it a horsepower bump over the Thunderbird, but I’m not sure the HP bump would exactly have been necessary.
I absolutely agree with a V8 swap and Manual conversion in a MN12, but I might go a different way. I want to find a SC with a blown 3.8L and swap in a warmed over 302 or 351. I love the low down torque of the old school Windsors.
"Makoyouidiot" (makaan12)
06/30/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 1
There was a nice brown one for sale at a dealer near me a month ago...checked it out and they wanted 22k for the thing?! I’m like hahahahahahaha no. But it seems prices for used ones are pretty strong, at least here in TX. Sucks, my aunt had one in a cream white color and I always thought it was cool.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
06/30/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 0
Definitely, it basically turned into a taurus coupe at the end of its normal run. I’m not sure if it was ever the flagship of Ford but if it ever came back, it would have to be a 8 series or S coupe fighter and be the flagship alongside the GT. Ford won’t ever do it because that would undermine Lincoln.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 1
Around this time period though, if this had been a Lincoln, it probably would have done worse, without a doubt.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 1
I dont think it would ever come back either. It would probably be something along the lines of the Lexus LC or Maserati Gran Truismo, something that people might expect from Lincoln, but not Ford.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 12:09, STARS: 1
Thats crazy. Here in Southern California there are quite a few under 15 grand, with lowish miles in most cases.
"Nobi" (nobi)
06/30/2017 at 12:35, STARS: 1
Too expensive. You’re basically paying Corvette money for a fatter Miata.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 2
If they do bring it back, it has to be out of the blue and a fully developed and well thought out design. The Retro bird was a bit of a flop because it felt too much like a rushed “Me too!” exercise and marketed only towards the people who remembered the original. (Just like a poor quality movie remake these days). The running gear was just recycled Lincoln LS parts (which wasn’t praised for it’s amazing sports car like handling), so the styling and novelty were the only reasons to buy it. Granted, it’s not the prettiest car, but it still catches my attention.
Ford could still fit it in their lineup, Lincoln has no competing large coupe or sports oriented midsized sedan, and I still think that a stretched Mustang chassis with a usable back seat would sell. Give it some tasteful retro style and most of the Mustang’s engine choices (or the Ecoboost V6 as an option), and maybe even suicide doors (that only open when the front doors open for safety), and it’s surely a car that would catch attention while still being good to drive.
Or you could put that same formula under a Lincoln badge and call it a Mark X. I’m good with either choice.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
06/30/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 1
They could potentially just label it “Thunderbird” and not use a Lincoln or Ford logo anywhere. The 3.5EB is the best engine for the base model and the engine upgrade could be whatever ends up in the GT500 or even a juiced hybrid 3.5EB. Everyone was pretty stoked about the GT, and as long as they made a quality product, it could work.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/30/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 0
I loved my MN-12 T-bird, but it was not a fast car even with the 4.6. I later had a ‘98 Mark VIII with the DOHC 4.6, that is the engine they should have put in the MN-12.
you obviously never had to try to do valve cover gaskets in an FN10. The service manual leaves out a lot of steps between “remove cam cover fasteners” and “remove cam cover.”
"Makoyouidiot" (makaan12)
06/30/2017 at 14:34, STARS: 1
Do want!
"Master Cylinder" (mastercylinder28)
06/30/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 0
Hah, funnily enough I actually bought a warmed-over 351C and a Supercoupe 5-speed transmission and pedal assembly to swap into my 4.6 ‘Bird. I never finished the project, though. It pains me to look back on it now, because I was so close, but I was young and unskilled and it seemed so daunting back then that I gave up and sold it all off.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 0
Even funnier, I have a very similar story. I bought a whole Mark VIII DOHC engine and a marauder torque converter for my ‘94 4.6L Thunderbird. Ended up not having enough shop or time or tools or experience to get started, and the underside of the car was rusty enough to discourage me anyways.
It would have been fun, but just not in the cards for me then.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/30/2017 at 16:23, STARS: 3
The LS of the same vintage with the same drivetrain, dash, steering wheel (more-or-less), center console, etc, can be bought for under $3k in flawless condition with low miles.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/30/2017 at 16:46, STARS: 1
You know, I’ve heard similar points about the Challenger, which is about the longest two-door car that can be purchased with a manual remaining on the market... Ridiculous length for a car only really designed for 1-2 passengers isn’t the end of the world, but I agree that you have to do something with it to make it compelling.
That said, there was one really good reason to make it so long: Ride quality. If they made the body as small as possible around that interior, it would have been an even bigger flop.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/30/2017 at 16:48, STARS: 0
The Z8 is super sexy, though. I’d own and drive one without a second thought if they weren’t so ridiculously expensive and archaic by today’s standards.
"AuthiCooper1300" (rexrod)
06/30/2017 at 17:36, STARS: 0
I don’t agree, but that’s fine - we don’t have all to think the same, right?
I was much more impressed with the Z07 show car, which was also a little more audacious. Also, there are things one may not dislike in a show or a one-off but find atrocious in a production model.
One important test about whether one really likes a car or not is... would you like it so much if it were not a BMW (or whatever brand)?
I know, this question is trickier with the Z8 because it is supposed to have been inspired on the 507. Now that is a car I really adore...
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/30/2017 at 18:05, STARS: 1
To my eyes, the Challenger, big as it is, fills its entire wheelbase with its design. It’s a bombastic car that uses size to project attitude. I’ve always felt that the T-bird just kind of faded away in the back like a girl with really thin lips that you don’t want to kiss.
Yeah, you make a good point that wheelbase helps ride quality. Of course, it’s not the only way to do that. But, I never had a problem with the T-bird’s size, just how it used it.
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
06/30/2017 at 18:11, STARS: 3
I once took out groceries for a lady who owned one. She was definitely in the target market. Another lady (also in the target market) walked up to her and complimented it. They just swarm to these things like flies.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/30/2017 at 18:31, STARS: 0
Yea the Palm Springs crowd loved them. Literally. Palm Springs was crawling with quite a few when it was out. I used to see at least 5 when I would go visit my grandpa.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/30/2017 at 19:07, STARS: 1
What’s funny is that earlier incarnations of the T-bird were similarly disproportionate for the cars of their eras. They all had a ridiculously long trunk lid and a lot of car behind the driver. Almost like they really wanted to make a ute, but also wanted the bed to close, so we got this odd thing.
"interstate366, now In The Industry" (interstate366)
06/30/2017 at 20:11, STARS: 0
The first time I saw one was at the Outer Banks, not long after it came out, being driven by a woman who had to have been born around the time the original one was released. She was the stereotypical buyer of them, had that typical 50-something haircut, smoking a Virginia Slim, leathery skin from always being tan.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
06/30/2017 at 23:18, STARS: 0
I mean, can you imagine? They’d sell maybe 3, 10 if they put the 3.5EB in it
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/30/2017 at 23:32, STARS: 1
That ‘shop looks amazing. I love the foxbody roof line.
Make it special, and it’ll sell. Just don’t make it compete directly with the Mustang in size/capacity.
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
07/01/2017 at 00:12, STARS: 0
I thought these had the Modular....
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 00:51, STARS: 0
Nope. It was pretty much an LS coupe with out the V6 option.
"EverettHBlackIV" (everetthblackiv)
07/01/2017 at 08:59, STARS: 2
To each their own. I have always liked the 2002-2005 Thunderbird (especially the 2003-2005 which have more power than the 2002). The only problems I saw with it were related to initial dealer markup which made a good $30,000 car a mediocre $40,000 car. We got our 2003 in 2015 with under 10,000 miles on the odometer for $18,500 and I couldn’t be happier with it. Love the looks, ride and even performance. Drove it nearly 7,000 miles on September last year, crossing the US and going to Montreal, Canada before coming back home. This year we’ll drive the Pacific coast from Victoria, B.C. to San Diego. EVERYWHERE we drive it, we get nice comments, thumbs up and admiration from young and old alike. Not for everyone but for what they are selling for today with most of them having low miles, they’re a nice option. And performance, sure, it’s not a 200 mph super car but it’ll effortlessly cruise at the 132 mph governor...
"boxrocket" (boxrocket)
07/01/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 1
I worked at a Ford dealership a few years after they came out, and also saw the debut of the 2005 Ford GT (got to drive an early production model around the lot!), the 2005 Mustang, and a few other important launches like the 2004 F-150 and 6.0L PowerStroke in the redesigned Super Duty. The last-generation Thunderbird was very much style over substance, and still looks unique and distinctive today, to its credit.
However, while it was a nice touring car - shared development between it and the Jaguar S-Type and Lincoln LS helped - the interior was cramped, visibility was expectantly poor with the roof up, the reverse-wedge shape made placing the car in a parking spot a bit awkward, and it felt too big for the size of the cabin. Lump in mid-2000s-grade interior fit, finish, and materials, and it quickly lost appeal. A redesign to bring it alongside the Mustang may not have gone amiss, but coupes were already losing ground, and the Thunderbird had no real direct competitors: SC430 was smaller, awkward-looking, and more refined. Mercedes SLK was smaller, SL too up-market, and the C/E-class coupes didn’t have removable tops. Corvette is a plastic performance car, so not comparable. So on and so on.
Add in the problematic transmission and Jaguar-derived V8, and folks weren’t as certain about its reliability and running costs.
Personally I think after the first few years they could have renamed it the Galaxie and given it useable rear seats with updated styling to match, and it could have continued longer. Instead we got the Five Hundred and Mercury Montego - not bad cars, and a big step for Ford engineering-wise thanks to Volvo’s platform base - and lost the dream of a big RWD V8-powered sedan to replace the Crown Victoria, or another V8 RWD coupe/convertible above the Mustang (I still think not federalizing the Australian Ford Falcon was a mistake).
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
Yours is pretty clean. And you got the removable hard top too. Ive always liked them, and if I could have 2 convertible in the household I would seriously look at one. Im amazed at how good a condition most of them are in and how cheap they are. Ive never seen one here over 15 grand. But very nice.
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/01/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 0
Yea it was more of a mid life GT than anything. I would drive one today though. The only things that concerned me are the quality of the near identical LS interior, and the reliability of that Jaguar AJ v8. Personal luxury coupes were on their way out when this T Bird came so it wasn’t a good time at all. They seem to have made a comeback, but only with luxury marques and above 100k. So it wouldn’t work today unless MAYBE it was a Lincoln
Did your dealer marke these up crazy like everyone else did?
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
07/01/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 1
The T-Bird was styled to look like the 55-57. The 55-57 T-Birds were built to compete with 55-57 Vettes. They should have went crazy with this, borrow some stuff from the GT (not mustang) and Cobra, and make it fast. It had a decent chassis. This should have been something that would have compete with the Corvette. Well maybe not the Corvette exactly, but a Vette dressed up as a Caddilac.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
07/01/2017 at 19:21, STARS: 0
That was he age of ridiculously long coupes. At least some auto makers put fins and stuff to make it interesting until the 70s
"John R" (john-rotella)
07/02/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 1
Overpriced to begin with and the dealers got crazy with their above-sticker premiums. It would have done better on a larger platform and pushed to a broader market, more mainstream like the 1983 Thunderbird was. Poor performance with that weak transmission and mediocre engine. Styling is a matter of personal taste; to me it had a disappointing, underwhelming and bland appearance. Ford had the opportunity and instead of seizing the moment they counted on a couple of portholes to sell a so-so car.
The designers/marketing department were not really Thunderbird people in essence, they were trying to reproduce a free-spirit car of the 1950s-1960s in an era of over-regulation and politically correct design. NG who I met personally was just not into it, I think she was relieved when the project was over. I think the Thunderbird name belongs in the Ford showrooms, what are they waiting for....
"miatadon" (miatadon)
07/02/2017 at 15:48, STARS: 1
Stylingwise, it needed to imitate the original cars a bit more- some small fins along the rear fenders that incline inward at their tips, and the grille should have been recessed.
"LJ909" (lj909)
07/03/2017 at 12:27, STARS: 0
Spot on. Had no idea NG wasn’t a fan of the project though. That says a lot. Thunderbird wouldn’t work today though.