by "awmaster10" (awmaster10)
Published 06/21/2017 at 13:35
by "awmaster10" (awmaster10)
Published 06/21/2017 at 13:35
Tags: toyota
; 4runner
; tacoma
; pathfinder
; nissan
; vq35
; offroad
; overland
STARS: 2
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After owning 3 relatively boring sedans, I decided to take a chance and pick up my first off-road capable vehicle. I fired up Craigslist, searched for a week or so, and picked up a 2002 4runner with 180k miles on it for about $4k.
Well, I ended up falling in love with the truck, but was not in love with the condition of the example I had. Somehow, I managed to sell it for a small profit, and started looking for a cleaner 3rd gen.
I will be basing this review off the newer truck, which was an 02 as well but was a sport edition with only 120k miles in thundercloud grey (The best fucking color). Picked it up bone stock and tastefully modded it until It developed a serious rust hole in the frame, and I had to retire it for an extreme loss.
Background: Pathfinder
Upon selling the second 4runner I seriously considered going back to some sort of “regular” car. I drove a couple GS400s (My first car was a gs300), an IS300, some G35s, etc. but none of them were sharp enough or fun enough to stop me from straying back to another SUV.
Knowing that I should probably avoid getting another 3rd gen 4runner since both of them had rust problems I pursued the following in my used car search:
- 4th gen 4runner
- 2nd gen montero
- 3rd gen montero
- r50 pathfinder
- Tahoe (The year it got the LS...2000?)
- 2nd gen Trooper
After a slow and careful search I finally found the one: A 2003 Pathfinder SE with 120k miles and in beautiful condition. I picked it up for about $6k, which was fair considering it was from a reputable Infiniti dealership who had serviced it for years for the first owner. Again, I bought it stock and slowly modified it to my liking.
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These are two choices that would be great for a sub $10k used offroad build, so I figure this will help differentiate the two Japanese beasts. Brand new, they were also quite competitive, with the obvious edge in sales going to the Toyota. Lets see how they stack up.
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In terms of stock vehicles, the two trucks are very similar in design. Both are rugged medium sized vehicles with plenty of ground clearance. In fact, most of my friends and coworkers had no clue I even got a different truck! I dismiss that as them not paying enough attention though, since the 4runner literally had BRONZE wheels, which are a little hard to miss. In stock form, I will give the edge to the pathfinder, as it comes with much cleaner wheel choices and sits perfectly level no matter the age, rather than sagging to the center of the earth as 4runners do.
HOWEVER, after modifications, which were very similar on each, the 4runner, to me, was near perfection. The hood scoop added aggresive styling to the front, the bronze wheels complimented the thundercloud paint perfectly, and the clean but handsome body lines made it look a lot less dated than it should have.
The Pathfinder on the other hand does not have as aggressive of lines, and does not feature the 4runner sport edition hood scoop, but is still quite attractive in its current form, If I do say so myself. Overall, with 2 inch lift and 33s, the pathfinder is much larger in stance and stature.
Winner: 4runner (With modifications)
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By virtue of being body on frame, the 4runner is a very rough ride. No, it is not 90s 3/4 ton truck rough, but I found myself bracing for impact for any medium-large sized potholes in the less than perfectly paved state of Pennsylvania. Not only were potholes rough, but the overall ride even on glass smooth tarmac left a lot to be desired.
The 4runner also had very average seats which were mounted very low to the ground. This was awkward for me, at 5'10", so I imagine it would be less than ideal for anybody tall. The seats were also very small and made out of very scratchy material which is unique to the sport edition. Overall, not a great road trip car, but still a lot of fun around town.
The Pathfinder however is built on a unibody with a subframe for added strength. Whether this translates directly to the better ride or not I am not sure, but I can tell you without a doubt that it is MUCH more comfortable. Over large potholes it is still not the most graceful, especially since I dont have a panhard drop and my rear axle hucks me a little to the side. Over anything but gaping holes though the Pathfinder is buttery smooth. Transitions from pavement to grass to gravel are almost imperceptible. It is surreal how well it rides offroad, and I have had a lot of fun bombing fire roads at speeds that would have the 4runner bouncing everywhere and destroying my spine. I guess it is no surprise then why Car and Driver noted its “creamy off-road ride” in comparison to the 4runner, Grand Cherokee, Trooper, Bravada, Explorer, and Land Rover Discovery.
The seats in the pathfinder are mounted much higher from the ground in a more traditional fashion, and are also much larger, softer, and comfier overall. I am not large by any means but I find the Pathfinder seats allow more room while still having a little bolstering.
Winner:
Pathfinder by a huge margin
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Both of these trucks are Japanese and built to last, so I did not have a ton of wrench time on either of them. Based on my knowledge of the motors in each though, I would assume that the 4runner is easier to work on in general. The 5vz in the Runner is much less modern than the vq35, and fits in the engine bay with more room to spare. Here is a run down of the work I did on each.
4runner:
- Tightened throttle cables: This was very easy to do with a set of wrenches and improved my pedal deadzone immensely.
- Rewired alternator to battery charging cable: Easy enough, and the extra engine bay room made it easy to access
- Installed 2 inch lift: Rear shock mounts are fucking impossible to access and made the lift install hell. Good job toyota.
Pathfinder
- Replaced headlight: took 1 minute at a highway rest stop. Could not have been easier.
- Installed 2 inch lift: Easy as pie besides the whole spring compressor possible fatality thing.
Winner: Tie? More room in the engine bay and less electronics for the 4runner, but damn...that rear suspension was dumb as shit.
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Larger aftermarket for the 4runner, but BARELY. Every part I needed for my build was available for the Pathfinder and for less. In terms of normal parts, they are pretty much identical.
Winner: Tie. Both have cheap plentiful parts.
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Neither of these vehicles is easily identifiable by non car folk. That being said, once they were lifted and all that, they got a lot of attention. I would say that on average I would get more comments about the 4runner, but that was probably because it had extremely loud exhaust and gold wheels.
In terms of looking presentable in nice places, the Pathfinder is the winner in that it has a nicer interior, more sedated exterior, and looks newer in general.
If you want to measure cool factor by how impressed Jeep guys are by it (dont) then the Pathfinder wins purely based on the fact that Jeep guys are threatened by Toyotas and pretty much universally hate them.
Winner:
Pathfinder (but barely)
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I dont keep detailed numbers, but based on my estimations they get the EXACT same mileage. Probably best to note that my Pathfinder does not have a working gas gauge...
Winner: Tie.
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The 4runner is a very popular platform for offroading. The 3rd gen was available with a locking rear diff, and a couple different 4wd setups. Unfortunately, my 3rd gen had an open rear diff and the viscous center diff 4wd system. It was capable as hell, don’t get me wrong, but it was not suited to rock crawling due to IFS, not suitable to mudding due to open diffs, and not suitable to high speed offroad running due to the awful ride. Itll take you off the beaten path, but its not the best of the best by any means.
My Pathfinder luckily is equipped with an LSD, which does help quite a bit in low traction situations. The Pathfinder is similarly not great for rock crawling due to IFS, but is good in mud, and incredible at high speed offroad running. The first time I took the Pathfinder out I headed to a mountain fire road that I frequented in the 4runner and was able to maintain 20 more MPH up the entire path in comfort. I get great pleasure out of beating up on my friends Jeeps with 35s on anything other than technical crawling or mud pits.
Winner: Pathfinder
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The 4runner is adequate around town, and the 5VZ likes to make most of its power down low which makes it usable in most situations. On the highway though, the 4runner was a dog and would wheeze past 3.5k to the redline making very little power.
The Pathfinder on the other hand feels just about as quick as your average sedan in every single situation. Off the line it pulls hard and chirps tires. Around town it has instantaneous power when you need it. On the highway, the VQ35 sings and it’ll pull you easily to any legal speed limit in the US. A lot of the charm of this car comes from having a sports car motor (okay fine, nissan uses it in just about everything now) in a big off-road SUV. To put it in perspective, many are willing to spend thousands of dollars to swap motors into the 4runner that are on par with the VQ35.
4runner: 185hp 217ftlbs
Pathfinder: 240hp 265ftlbs
Weight difference is about 200lbs, but you would never know. The Pathfinder is a rocket compared to the 4runner.
Winner: Pathfinder
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The 4runner is actually quite small on the inside. A combination of the trucks frame taking up space and the deceptively small footprint mean it is about as practical as a large wagon. I never had issues, but if you are looking for a true large utility vehicle, do not get a 3rd gen (or any midsized SUV for that matter)
The Pathfinder is larger inside, comfier inside, has better folding seats, and tows more. It is still not as large inside as you would think, but I am now able to stuff 2 kayaks inside or carry a full sized mattress.
Winner: Pathfinder
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Well, as you can see, the Pathfinder is pretty much just objectively better. That being said, you cannot go wrong with either of these vehicles as a used off-road buy. They are both reliable as hell, capable, attractive, and easy to find. I personally have enjoyed both immensely, but the Pathfinder is my favorite car of the 6 I have owned. It does everything my 4runner could do while feeling like im driving my GS300, and I dont know what more you could ask for.
"BeaterGT" (beatergt)
06/21/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 1
Pretty cool read. Is gas mileage comparable?
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/21/2017 at 13:53, STARS: 1
I like the later R50 with the VQ a lot. The 3rd gen 4Runner is slow and cramped in comparison.
I personally would rather have the LE (or Infiniti QX4) for the awd since I’d mostly be using it as an on-road foul-weather vehicle.
One thing I never figured out in doing my research is how to tell if an R50 has the rear LSD. Is that marked on a build sticker or somewhere else that’s easy to check?
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/21/2017 at 14:37, STARS: 0
Yeah the r50 pre-vq35 had the vg33 which was even slower than the 5vz in the Runner. In the comparison I referenced between the 4runner, pathfinder (pre vq), bravada, explorer, trooper, and discovery, the 4runner won first place with the pathfinder in second place with its only con being the poor engine performance. I reckon once it got the vq it would have won the test hands down.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2001-nissan-pathfinder-le-4x4-road-test
I would have personally loved to find an LE (I think the QX is odd looking) for the AWD for snow, but with older trucks especially ones that are prone to rust, you get the one that is in the best condition and just hope it has the options you want. I got lucky with an SE with LSD since I believe it is a lot more rare, and I really like the cloth black interior on the SE. I would have probably torn up the rear seat leather pretty badly by now in an LE. 4hi with an LSD works pretty well in the snow, but my 4runner had AWD and was slightly superior in the snow.
As far as I know the LSD is only marked by an orange sticker on the diff that specifies to use LSD oil.
"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
06/21/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 1
This is good Oppo. You should buy my Yukon so you can... you know... really round out the comparison. ^_^
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/21/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 1
Believe me I would love an older GM truck but id have to go with a 2 door tahoe.
I absolutely love them but just dont want to have to maybe rebuild a trans or the 5.7 sometime soon.
"TDIGuy" (owenrosier)
06/21/2017 at 15:21, STARS: 1
Oh man does this bring back some feels. My first car was an R50 Pathfinder. I loved it but at the time I wanted a mustang so I eventually sold it. I think when I go to pickup another 4x4 I may look for another one. Great post BTW I also had a 2nd Gen 4Runner, but I agree the Pathy is pretty under - rated in comparison to all the love the 4runner gets. The picture was mine back in 2010
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/21/2017 at 15:26, STARS: 0
I think about selling it for something fast all the time but I dont think I could do it. Going to have to wait for it to die or wait to have money for a nice second car.
Sadly they are falling victim to rust so it may be hard to find one soon, but at least youll be able to pick it up for like $2000 running.
I was 4runner obsessed when I had my two 3rd gens and still am, but the pathfinder is great as well and super underrated.
"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
06/21/2017 at 15:38, STARS: 1
Yeah the 2-doors are really commanding a premium these days! I thought about getting one instead, but they’re a lot less practical. Then again so is a Yukon vs Suburban so what do I know...
"Meatcoma" (mastapoof)
06/21/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 1
My son has an all black ‘02. He’s thinking about getting a car for the better fuel economy and I’m thinking about buying his pathfinder. I may. I really like the look of yours with that small lift and the meaty tires.
"TDIGuy" (owenrosier)
06/21/2017 at 16:25, STARS: 1
Yeah I love a good Toyota but the Pathfinder is really nice in the lightly modded market. I wish I would have just kept it sometimes. But it would have 400 - 500 k miles on it if I had kept if over the years
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/21/2017 at 16:52, STARS: 0
Im hoping it runs long enough for it to become my second car and then I can use it as a woods beater which is always nice to have.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/21/2017 at 16:53, STARS: 1
If its clean you should pick it up! I havent had mechanical issues with mine yet and the lift (which was only $150) and tires really made it look much more unique.
"Meatcoma" (mastapoof)
06/26/2017 at 11:55, STARS: 1
It’s pretty clean. Only problems he has had with it was it was the alternator and overheating. replaced thermostat, water pump and radiator. Finally replaced Oreilly thermo with one from dealership(exact same cost) and it quit overheating.
Lesson is, use a nissan thermostat.
The alternator’s wires are kind of a pain but overall not too bad.
"scoffr50" (scoffr50)
03/13/2018 at 17:19, STARS: 0
Just got an 01. Looking to do the 2" lift, but I’m unsure of what tire size to go with, you said you’re running 33"s, do you have any issues with rubbing? also, how wide of a tire you running?
"Nonya" (nonyabizz8648)
06/01/2018 at 01:21, STARS: 0
Sorry man, but you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. 4runner literally wins in all the categories. Pathfinder still has a torsion front end for Christ sake. And get a rear elocker model. You act as if the 4runner is just ok for dirt roads rofl! I’ll walk circles around you on the trail. Get out of here with the nonsense you fool...
"sergio" (scabado)
08/27/2018 at 07:28, STARS: 0
Great comp! I just g ot a single owner 1996 Pathy (R50) Se with 60.000 miles in perfect condition here in Buenos Aires. I loved it the minute I pressed the gas pedal. I am paying about $ 7.500 and very happily so.
"Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!!" (eurylokhos)
02/23/2019 at 15:17, STARS: 0
Nearly 2yr later, how is that Pathfinder treating you?
"N3zzar" (n3zzar)
04/12/2019 at 09:31, STARS: 0
I will disagree about the Nissan winning the offroad comparison. I’ve been on many difficult trails in Colorado with my 4Runner and have seen the (heavily modified) R50s fail at conquering many obstacles that the 4Runner walks right up. The suspension articulation on the R50 just doesn’t compare to the 3rd gens, modified or stock. Comfort on the trail simply isn’t what makes a good offroad rig, it’s the ability to conquer obstacles and that’s where the 3rd gen really shines.
"TRUTH-ABSOLUTE" (truth-absolute)
04/02/2020 at 02:53, STARS: 0
I have I have a 2002 Nissan Pathfinder. It is a five-speed. I flew to Massachusetts just to pick it up because I wanted a low mileage path puppy with a 5-speed. It is my second Pathfinder. My first one was a 98. My first one made it to about 265 thousand miles. I really love my 02 Pathfinder. I am 6 foot 3 and there are times when it seems just a little bit small for me but I can’t help but love it. One thing you pointed out is very correct. And you describe very well. That is the fact that it is very good at high-speed off-road. Fire roads and gravel roads and things of that nature are where the Pathfinder really shines. I have a couple videos up on my channel and will be adding more as time goes on when I eventually say goodbye to my pathfinder. But in the meantime stop by my channel and please check it out and subscribe. If anybody is going to be up in the Allegheny National Forest Area or Eastern Ohio area is checking out any gravel roads hit me up on my YouTube videos and we can Team Up are Pathfinders! Long live Nissan 4 x 4! YouTube channel : TRUTH ABSOLUTE
"Joben_McBrewsky" (jobenmcbrewsky)
06/02/2020 at 19:07, STARS: 0
Just bought an 03 Pathy myself. What wheel and tire setup did you go with, and did you have to trim at all to make them fit? Thanks!
"VehiculusIgnorantus" (crdiscoverer)
06/15/2020 at 16:39, STARS: 0
Going through this very same decision right now. 4Runner or R50 Pathy.
Went and saw one with a manual VQ35, dark green and around 180k miles. It’s completely stock down to the wheels. Is the VQ35 a long-life engine (if the power valves are taken care of) or is it quirky or a time bomb past 200k or so?