by "WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
Published 06/20/2017 at 13:30
by "WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
Published 06/20/2017 at 13:30
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STARS: 0
So, as much as I would love to buy a 996, the reality is I will need to either pick up or drop off my daughter from childcare every day. Hence, rear seat accessibility is key if I ever want to drive it. As a result, I will present to you several sport sedan options I ’ ve been mulling over in order to get your feedback and/or alternative options.
My broad parameters are that the vehicle be under $30k, a legit sports sedan, not just a “ sporty ” sedan, and 4 doors. While I would prefer a manual, some of the better paddle shift cars are good too. Also, if its from an unreliable brand (German) the price of an aftermarket warranty should be factored in. I will own this in addition to my 2004 land cruiser which will see all snow and rough weather duty.
The fun factor is key here. I would ideally like to use it for HDPE or track days as well, as the Milwaukee mile isn
’
t far from my house.
2008-2016 BMW M3
While not the most reliable, the M3 is an obvious choice. Used sedans are on Autotrader from around $20 to 30k. An aftermarket warranty would be necessary though, which could easily add another $5k to the price.
While likely the best track option on this list, the power is made at the top of the rev range, making it less ideal for day-to-day use.
2007-2014 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG
This one leads the pack in two main areas: Attention seeking and poor reliability. While there are numerous ones listed in the low-20s on Autotrader, an aftermarket warranty is needed, increasing the price.
While definitely the most aggressively styled of the options, its also considered to be one of the best handling AMG cars ever made.
2009-2016 Audi S4 B8
This is probably the most sedate, and cheapest option on the list. Auto trader shows manuals can be picked up from the high teens to low twenties pretty easily. This generation is more appealing to me than the B7 for two big reasons: reliability and the stretched wheelbase. From what I ’ ve read on the forums, this generation doesn ’ t have nearly the issues the B7 had, and is largely reliable. While its down on power from the factory compared to the others, dyno charts appear to show Audi was sandbagging it, and a tune easily brings it into the mid - 400hp. Not to mention due to the supercharger, the power is much more usable than the M3.
2008-2013 CTS-V
This is the most powerful car on the list by a decent margin. While I would love to get one with a stick, those are still $35k+. However, 556hp is a nice consolation. Extra bonus is that these are generally considered to be quite reliable, although they are also the heaviest on the list too. I would say the styling is just as aggressive as the C63, but they seem to get a pass as they ’ re Cadillacs.
2008-2013 Lexus IS-F
This is basically the dark horse challenger to the others. While it doesn
’
t have a manual option, the auto fully locks in 2nd through 8th, and is generally considered to be one of the best manual shifting autos you can buy. The power is respectable at 415hp, and being a Lexus, I have no qualms about its reliability. The added rarity ensures I
’
ll never see another. If I got one, I would probably look for a 2011+. The ISF got a torsen LSD in 2010, and the suspension was upgraded in 2011.
Final Thoughts:
The other main contender that comes to mind is the Chevy SS. I actually test drove a manual one this spring and really liked it. However, finding one under $30k is quite difficult, and impossible if you want the magnetic ride suspension or a manual. At the moment I ’ m leaning towards the IS - F, due to its reliability and good ratings. A manual would be nice, but since I ’ ll be using it to commute, an auto in traffic is nicer.
What do you guys think?
PS. I tried to insert pictures, but Kinja is being a bitch.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/20/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 1
If you like the SS maybe drive a g8, although thats quite a bit of a step back in terms of luxury and build quality. You could probably get a GXP with a stick.
Out of the germans:
s4 is boring
c63 is a beast but I would be scared to own one relaibility wise
I love e90 m3s so I support this choice despite questionable reliability.
The CTS-V I dont much care for that generation especially with an auto. Still a monster though.
Really love the IS-F and would love for an oppo to own one as they are pretty rare.
Maybe consider an ATS-V? No clue how much those go for but great chassis and smaller than the others
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/20/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 1
Spending $5k+ on an aftermarket warranty for a car you plan to beat on at the track feels off to me.
M3 only get a stick shift, the DCT in these is not so good.
I know nothing much about the C63.
S4 is only desirable IMHO if you get one with the sport rear differential.
The first two generations of CTS are meh to me for various reasons in spite of their appealing engines in the V models.
The IS is noticeably smaller on the inside than the other cars here.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 1
The problem with the G8 is that they’re inferior to the Chevy SS, yet cost almost as much. If I’m spending $35k, I’m getting the SS.
The S4 is the most sedate, but watch the Chris Harris review of it with a tune and see that its a big improvement.
I drooled over that generation of CTS-V when it came out, but I really would like either a good manual shift auto or a manual. The CTS in my range are neither. But damn are they nice.
I really like the IS-F, but there aren’t any by me. Matt Farah’s review makes me a little worried about fitting, since I’m 6'5", but it wouldn’t be our road trip car in any regard.
I like the ATS-V, but I don’t think they’re in my range yet. Too new.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/20/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 1
OPPO reality check:
Step 1 - Panther platform cars in ok shape can be found for around $5,000 if not cheaper. You WILL purchase 5 Panther platform cars and spend $1000 on each in “make car vrooom louder” mods. With every paycheck you get, try out various styles of mods. Lowered, hot rod, JDM, doriftooo, autocross, etc.
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Profit
"syaieya" (syaieya)
06/20/2017 at 15:28, STARS: 1
Of those options, the M3 was always known to just be the best choice. Saying the C63 was the best handling amg counts the black series setup and ignores the invasive traction control.
Thinking though if youre already considering an aftermarket warrenty, why not a Maserati? Jag also had some brutish power in those days too coming out.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 15:34, STARS: 0
You might be overestimating my needs. I’ve never done a track day or HPDE, and would like to try it. The vast majority of the miles will be commuting.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
I appreciate the suggestion, but having already done the ‘80s rwd sedan thing, I have zero interest in going back. That being said, I would be almost guaranteed to get my money back at the end.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
M3 is the best track choice, but not the best road choice. I’ve never done a HPDE before, and would like to try it, the vast majority of miles will be commuting. I meant the c63 AMG (base, black, etc.) are largely considered the best handling AMG cars, compared to the E and S classes.
The Jags do appeal to me too. I think the new XE looks nice, but they’re out of my range. the XF is bigger than I would like. Ideally, I would like to say under 4,000 lbs.
"Shift24" (the-nope)
06/20/2017 at 15:45, STARS: 0
The E9x M3 S65 is actually one of the more if not one of the most reliable BMW engines. Not too many terminal or outrageous priced issues. But replacing that suspension will be costly when it wears out.
Though if I wanted reliability i would go G8. I dont care if they are over priced, and I dont like the VF body style (SS). Id rather a VE body with Holden badging and start throwing HSV parts at it.
The ISF isnt bad but just lacks something. Would be nice to drive one to see if it goes away.
That gen CTS-V... Wagon or GTFO.
Audi what? They all look the same.
Merc, dat exhaust note, power and styling makes you forget about the flappy paddles. But dat interior, nah.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 0
The e9x M3 might be more reliable, but stories about the throttle actuators going out are pretty common. Don’t get me wrong, I would still love to have one, but a warranty is needed.
The G8 is nice, but for a manual they’re pushing $35k. That’s just too much to me for what you get. I can get a CTS-V manual for that. I agree the wagon is gorgeous too. Never cared much for the coupe though.
All in, I think the ISF would probably be the best fit. Its not the sexiest or the best on track, but for my real world requirements, it will likely do very well.
I was thinking long and hard about an RS4, but the carbon buildup issue is scaring me away. I saw one on Saturday and it almost made me want one again....
"SPAMBot - Horse Doctor" (spambot2002)
06/20/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 1
I’ve always liked the IS-F and they sound amazing with exhaust. If a manual CTS-V is out, my money would be on the IS-F. There are members on the Lexus forum that have over 150k miles with no issues. It isn’t the best-balls to the wall track car-on your list, but it does everything adequately and will get you to work every morning without fail. Plus, 415 HP is nothing to sneeze at. These HP wars are getting out of hand lol
"Hammerdown" (hammerdown32)
06/20/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 1
2008 G8 GTP? Might be hard to find, but if you’re considering an SS a G8 would be a cheaper option, albeit older.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 0
That’s where I am at too. I think to be a good performance vehicle you need to have less than 10lbs/hp, which all of these do. I’ll likely never use the full 400, let alone the 500+ you see in some other vehicles.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 16:21, STARS: 0
Problem is they’re not much cheaper, especially the manuals. I looked at the GXPs with manuals, and they’re largely around $35k. I like them, but there’s a lot of competition in that price range.
"SPAMBot - Horse Doctor" (spambot2002)
06/20/2017 at 16:26, STARS: 0
I’m planning on getting a new DD in about 3 years and this is on my short list if I don’t go for an SUV/truck/something completely not practical.
Have you considered a Jag XF supercharged or R? You can find them on Carmax for well under 30k which would leave you plenty for Maxcare. This is also on my shortlist haha
"Shift24" (the-nope)
06/20/2017 at 16:42, STARS: 0
You could always get a G8 GT and do a manual swap, someone on oppo or jalop has one. The L76 is still a decent motor.
The coupe on the CTS-Vs worked for the Pirelli cup cars. But in the real world I agree. It just sits to high in the rear.
Yeah that is pretty common in the E9x but that exhaust note and 8k+ rev limit is amazing to hear.
The IS-F will be the best car for the money in terms of basically everything but just not for me. But then if i had $30K, Id rather a multiple cheaper cars than just one car.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 16:43, STARS: 0
They’re very nice, but a bit big for my tastes. The XE is more the size I’m looking for.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
06/20/2017 at 16:49, STARS: 0
I’ll still have my Land Cruiser and my wife will likely be trading her forester in for a minivan, so we’ll have our bases covered. I would love to have a fleet too, but suburban living only gives me a set amount of space.
"SPAMBot - Horse Doctor" (spambot2002)
06/20/2017 at 16:54, STARS: 0
Makes sense
"R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet" (r-saldana)
08/07/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 0
Get the IS-F. If only for the opportunity to save a unicorn from irresponsible teenagers and 20 somethings who may find one that has been neglected and ruin it even more. At least in your hands it’s likely to be driven well and maintained accordingly.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
08/08/2017 at 10:49, STARS: 0
I would love to. I actually saw one the other day in traffic, its gorgeous. The only issue is that I’m 6'5" and have serious concerns about fitting. I sat in an IS250 last weekend, and with the seat all the way down and back my head was still skimming the roof. Leg room was fine though.
"R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet" (r-saldana)
08/08/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 0
Damn dude you’re tall AF.
Real talk though the Is-F is a pretty big “small” car.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
08/08/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 0
Yeah, there are pluses and minuses to it. I can always see at concerts, however, many fun cars simply won’t work
I hope the sport seats would be able to give me a little more space, but IS-Fs never seem to come up for sale by me, so finding one to drive is extremely difficult.