by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 06/20/2017 at 12:38
by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 06/20/2017 at 12:38
No Tags
STARS: 2
in case you missed the punchline
Starts at $73,250 and that doesn’t even get you AWD.
Man alive...what do you supposed the margin is on these trucks thats are still, at their heart, F150's?
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/20/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 0
Brutal.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/20/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 1
I normally prefer black headlight reflectors but that’s horrendous.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/20/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 0
Well it is a luxury 8 seater 3/4 ton. The cheapest 3/t ton pick up is like what 40,000?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 1
it calls out pretty loud, and not in a great way.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
06/20/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 4
1/2 ton, with an IRS
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 2
Taint no 3/4 ton. Its f150 based.
"404 - User No Longer Available" (toni-cipriani)
06/20/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 2
...these trucks thats are still, at their heart, F150's?
Cadillac would like to have a word with you regarding their Silverados... I mean... Escalades.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
06/20/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 0
WTF Lincoln, its like they want to go extinct
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/20/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 0
At first I was like, “how the hell do they add that many options?” but the Navigator L 4x4 Black Label starts at $97k.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 2
Its true. You can get a 6 figure Escalade too. And people complain about the price of Land Cruisers?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 0
yeah, thats the big jump up. I have to wonder if you could pile it on a-la-cart and get close though. its just a package after all.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
06/20/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 12
my face when I see the price
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
06/20/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 1
This tops out higher than an Escalade Platinum ESV, the reigning king of luxury SUVs. I’m sure that’s gonna help Lincoln sell more of these things, totally. That’s on top of being beaten to death with the ugly stick.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
06/20/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 1
$90K FOR A TOYOTA IS NUTS
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
I just built a caddy and got it up to $102,785 but thats with a $2500 performance brake upgrade (1. why? 2. Why wouldn’t this be standard if its really better?)
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
06/20/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
I remember when the expedition was newer a factory worker was telling me the profit on the expeditions was more than the build costs of a focus. So the markups are probably pretty insane. But just wait 2 years and they’ll be half price or less. Lincolns depreciate quickly. At least they used to.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
06/20/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
Needs a little more slant on those headlights.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 1
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/20/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 1
“Like the Expedition but wish it was uglier?”
"facw" (facw)
06/20/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 0
Expedition, not Excursion...
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
I have to imagine that the margin is AT LEAST 25% on these. crazy.
"RT" (rt-p)
06/20/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 1
Just get a Range Rover or Land Cruiser instead lol.
Depreciation is going to be fun either way, for sure.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 1
no no don’t buy an infiniti...come see us and Henry Guy Ford/Lincoln! We promise you the best dealer experience you can find*
*in the Ford category.
"404 - User No Longer Available" (toni-cipriani)
06/20/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 0
Well you could pose the same question to those who think you NEED performance carbo-ceramic brakes for street use.
Was looking for an M4 for a friend short while back, and that’s the first thing I made sure it didn’t have. It’s a DD and he will get annoyed by it if it did.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 2
The only thing they have going for them is that they are an American company and some people simply refuse to buy anything but American. So basically, yeah, a Range Rover for Patriotic holdouts.
"My X-type is too a real Jaguar" (TomSlick)
06/20/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 0
Build a loaded suburban it will get close to that price.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 0
but its just bigger cast rotors and new front calipers. Thats it. It just makes me wonder why its an option...does GM not think the regular binders are up to the task? and if not, why aren’t these standard, and if so...why are they on the build sheet?
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/20/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
Oh yeah
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
Well a loaded Escalade will, a suburban probably wont. lets find out!
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/20/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
I was thinking Excursion which sadly isn’t a thing anymore
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
06/20/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
Oooh fancy
"jimz" (jimz)
06/20/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
because the Land Cruiser is a Toyota. if it was a Lexus I doubt there’d be as much squawking. In comparison, you can’t even load up an Expedition or Tahoe to make it as expensive as the LanCru’s starting price.
or if you can, you have to work far harder at it than I care to.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
Yeah, I just topped out a Suburban at around 77 grand. I don’t know why people have a hard time around the idea of a badge being the limiting factor on price. I mean, an expensive car is an expensive car, right? Who cares if the badge is a stylish L or a bean in a hat. I’ve just always found that logic strange.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 0
$77,110 before discounts.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/20/2017 at 13:09, STARS: 1
lol to the car and price
"Ssfancyfresh" (scotttt)
06/20/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 1
Our Tahoe was $65k and I found THAT to be egregious.
This is just gross. On so many levels, gross.
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
06/20/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 0
Seems to be priced with the category. Although it is nuts to think a GX460 tops out about were the Navigator starts
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 2
Its painfully obvious that its not priced based on its value, but its value is based on its price. I mean its literally priced to be expensive so that it will be an expensive thing. That bothers me a little.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 0
You can certainly get an LX right up there but at least with the LX you know you are getting a little substance if not a particularly high does of style.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/20/2017 at 13:16, STARS: 0
Looking at the stuff included in the different trims...
Select
Heated Steering Wheel
Enhanced Security with Intrusion & Inclination Sensors
22-inch Dark Tarnish Painted Wheels
Illuminated Painted Ebony Black Power-Running Boards
Windshield Wiper De-icer
Adaptive Suspension
Wireless charging pad
Reserve
Lincoln Embrace with Lighting on Demand, Map Pockets and First Row/Second Row Illuminated belt buckles
Driver/Passenger Heated and Ventilated Seats with 24-Way Perfect Position, Power Thigh Extension and Seat Memory
Second Row 40/Console/40 Seats
Lincoln Embrace with Illuminated Lincoln Star
Panoramic Vista Roof®
4x4 only
The Black Label in the configurator lists all the standard features and I don’t feel like combing through the whole list to see what it adds. Teh three things it mentions as being unique to start with are:
22-inch Ebony Black Paint Wheels
Technology Package
Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package
A lot of the features on the Black Label appear to be fancier materials, they mention things like the weight of the carpets, microsuede headliner, etc.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/20/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
This is for super-fancy families of 5+ who want to have as fancy of a vehicle as possible that equals the interior volume of a minivan, but refuse to be seen driving a minivan.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/20/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 1
I would still pay it though. This thing is gorgeous, especially the interior, and ESPECIALLY in a Black Label trim. Its nice to have an American full size luxury SUV option that isn’t Escalade/Suburban LTZ/Yukon XL Denali. But it looks like it only crests 100 grand when you add a Black Label option, which adds on a nice penny to the price. If you stay standard it gets easier to swallow:
$93,700 for a non Black Label long wheelbase and $90,500 for the standard wheelbase with the same option.
The one thing I don’t like about it is how you cant get Black Label and 2wd. You have to get 4wd if you want a Black Label trim. That makes no sense to me. And the price just for the driver and passenger 30 way massaging seats is a $1250 option. Pricey.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
06/20/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 0
Or you could drive this and spend the savings on Aerosmith tickets. Different strokes (and bores, since we’re talking about Lincoln).
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
06/20/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 0
Why couldn’t they just stick with the damn concept?
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
06/20/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 1
I mean, you could just save some money (wow) and buy a Land Cruiser with Japanese build quality and good off-road capabilities. I don’t see anyone dropping $100,000 on a Lincoln.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
06/20/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
This is a truck for a person who says: “If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.”
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
06/20/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
The one thing I will say is this Navigator seems to be a lot more luxurious on the inside to me. It looks like a very very nice place to be.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 0
it IS a nice interior. I still don’t get why 2wd is even an option. I mean its not going to make it a better driver and the extra $50 a month you save on gas surely can’t be the tipping point on your $1000/mo lease. Make it standard and call it part of the luxury of excess.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:28, STARS: 2
Its pretty damn close.
"My X-type is too a real Jaguar" (TomSlick)
06/20/2017 at 13:29, STARS: 0
Cheaper than I thought, I would have thought 90k. But still 77k for a suburban seems like a lot.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:29, STARS: 1
I’d have a hard time convincing myself to spend 6 figures on a luxury good made in Arkansas.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
06/20/2017 at 13:29, STARS: 0
They matched the grille and wheels, everything else looks like a Chinese copy of the concept.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:30, STARS: 2
its also for the person who says “I’ll wait a year or two years and get it for 2/3rds the price off lease.”
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 1
It does look nice. I sat in a continential with the fancy seats recently and they were lovely. That being said I thought the leather in the land cruiser I drove was just as nice...just not as “eamesy”
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/20/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
Maybe for those few owners that actually know whether or not they need 4wd? Or for the inevitable livery drivers who don’t need it? I don’t know. I appreciate its still there, because I don’t need it if I were to buy one of these. But I would gladly pay for it. This is probably going to turn out to be the best Navigator ever made.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 0
The lines are little cleaner on the concept and its lower...but it really is pretty darn close.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/20/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 0
Yeah but I see a ton of yukons and escalades that loaded are in LC territory. The Land cruiser is so much more truck for that money in my opinion. Current gen yukons are damn pretty though and hard to pass up the 6.2
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 1
I guess I just figure if I’m dropping that kind of money, I should be better the best mechanical bits the company has to offer. Its not like having AWD will hurt. I mean at worst its 1 mpg worse in the city which, again, shouldn’t make a difference to people buying one. I just feel like all it does is lower the resale since a 2wd model is limited to the sunbelt.
"RT" (rt-p)
06/20/2017 at 13:36, STARS: 0
Yep, but at that price it’s going up against some pretty fancy minivans.
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
06/20/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 6
People have airports to get to.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/20/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 0
Looks the same
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/20/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 1
You have point. It should have it across the board. But it does help with entry prices. But who cares about that spending that kind of money on something like this. But resale is going to hurt no matter what. its a Navigator. In 3 years this thing is going to be sitting on a lot somewhere with 45 thousand miles for 46 grand.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 0
HA! Nice.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/20/2017 at 13:49, STARS: 1
Those are all way smaller than a regular, short wheelbase Navigator.
The Nissan Armada/Infiniti QX80 is the only other premium full-size SUV that’s as big as short wheelbase full-size ‘Murrican SUVs.
The Mercedes GLS and Range Rover LWB get close but they’re still a few inches smaller, and the RR LWB doesn’t have 3 rows of seats.
Even something like a Land Cruiser/Lexus LX570 is a good 7 inches shorter than the short-wheelbase ‘Murricans.
The long-wheelbase Suburban, etc. ‘Murrican SUVs are much bigger.
"Bourbon&JellyBeans" (bourbonandjellybeans)
06/20/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 1
I guess because it needed functional doors? Concept had gull wing doors which would have never worked.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
06/20/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 0
The headlights and lower grille are completely different. The face of the car has been changed from sleek and suave to brutish and aggressive.
"V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me!" (v8demon)
06/20/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 0
This is the route I’d go with regards to an American based SUV in super sized form.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 16:19, STARS: 0
You can get a pretty loaded Denali for what a navigator starts at. Plus as powerful as the 3.5 EB is, its not going to sound like a 6.2 pushrod. Not to mention the fact that they likely wont differ too much in mileage (though its hard to say with the new navigator being so much lighter)
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
06/20/2017 at 17:11, STARS: 0
“Luxury good.”
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
06/20/2017 at 17:24, STARS: 0
I’m sure that Ford and GM have made their “luxury” cars much better compared to previous generations, but I could never, ever, in a million years, recommend that someone spend the same amount of money (or god forbid more money) on an American “luxury” car compared to a German, Japanese, or British car.
Even if the new cars are much better than the old ones (which isn’t very hard, the old ones were laughable), you’re getting far more for your money with the foreign cars. A Navigator is just a fancy F150. A Mercedes GLS started life as a Mercedes, not a workhorse.
Nope, can’t do it.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 17:28, STARS: 2
Its a little continentalist, but I can see your point. Though lets not forget what else a GLS is...
The MB W166 platform and the WK2 platform are deeply related.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
06/20/2017 at 18:10, STARS: 0
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
All the FCA products that used Mercedes platforms are based off much older Mercedes platforms. I think the 300/Charger/Challenger is based off the W211.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 18:12, STARS: 0
Nope, the WK2 and W166 (current GLS) were codeveloped.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
06/20/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 0
Shows you how much I know about the Mercedes SUV’s.
How was it codeveloped, though, if DaimlerChrysler split up around 2007 according to Wikipedia?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 18:35, STARS: 0
Technology exchange? I honestly don’t know the answer to that one.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
06/20/2017 at 18:37, STARS: 0
Perhaps they had just finished the very basic platform before they ended their “relationship,” so there may not be any parts sharing, or very little. I haven’t been under a WK2 or W166 in a long time so I can’t say for sure, but I’l l be sure to pay more attention next time.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/20/2017 at 18:40, STARS: 0
I can’t tell you specifics, but I can tell you that the suspension of the Grand reminds me an awful lot like a German design. i.e. heavy castings with pressed in hydraulic bushes etc.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
06/20/2017 at 23:09, STARS: 0
Probably because the design comes from the suppliers. That’s my guess since German designs look so similar to me.
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
06/20/2017 at 23:10, STARS: 0
Yeah - agree with you - the nose in particular lost quite a bit in translation. It’s quite a bit busier now. Or maybe it’s just the pic? I’ll have to see one in person. I really do like the concept vehicle.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
06/21/2017 at 00:08, STARS: 0
those wheels are goign to take so long to clean. who am i kidding they’re not cleaning their own car.
"RT" (rt-p)
06/21/2017 at 00:38, STARS: 0
Again yeah, but since these smaller cars still seat seven comfortably (and don’t drive like a truck), it’s only really the imported badge holding them back.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/21/2017 at 08:33, STARS: 1
With a big Murrica SUV, or a minivan, it’s all about how much cargo room you have behind the 3rd row so you can go on a family trip with people in all 3 rows and all their stuff in the back.
The X5 3rd row kills most of the trunk space, the XC90 a little less, and I don’t know why you posted a pic of an F-Pace and Macan since neither of those have a 3rd row.
"RT" (rt-p)
06/21/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 0
It’s a wide price range, so it honestly depends, hence why I posted the Macan etc, though those cars are tiny for bigger loads.
But yeah, I’ve used an X5 for a long 5-person roadtrip before and it worked a treat. You could go bigger with an XC90, Land Rover or LX if you’re carrying more than five people and their cargo, but for most situations you don’t really need more than that. In this case you’re trading this slight functionality in for a vehicle which is much harder to live with on a day-to-day basis (because of worse economy, more truck-like manoeuvrability/parking and worse quality/design to name a few).
But sure, they’re big and can be had for cheap in the US if you know what you’re doing. Just not usually worth the compromises in most cases.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/21/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 1
You’re not quite getting my point.
I’m talking specifically about a vehicle that has
both
a roomy 3rd row seat
and
a bunch of cargo space behind the 3rd row, like a minivan. For example, the Chrysler Pacifica:
There are plenty of rich people who want to have the same 3rd row space + behind-3rd row cargo space as a minivan, but want nothing to do with driving a minivan, and want a luxury brand.
Any vehicle without 3 rows of seats obviously doesn’t make the cut here.
There are several large 3-row crossovers that somewhat approximate, but don’t equal, the minivan 3rd row room + behind-3rd-row cargo area. These are the Ford Explorer, Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander, and VW Atlas. The Chevy Traverse and Buick Enclave are closer to minivans (the new GMC Acadia is now a shorter wheelbase than the Traverse & Enclave).
Among luxury brands, the Audi Q7, Acura MDX, Land Rover Discovery and Volvo XC90 are similar to the Explorer etc. But again, all of these are not close to equaling a minivan in 3rd row space + behind-3rd-row cargo.
The X5 has a teensy jump seat 3rd row which eats up the majority of the cargo room when in use.
To get that combination of premium brand, and minivan-equal 3rd row + cargo room, the only options are the Yukon/Denali, Escalade, Navigator, and QX80/Armada. This is the short-wheelbase Escalade:
The long-wheelbase ‘Murricans are
huge
compared to anything else in the luxury segment.
"RT" (rt-p)
06/21/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 0
Thanks for explaining so well, the pictures helped too.
I already understood that these vehicles need both an extra row of seats and still have usable cargo space, I just didn’t realise that there would be this much extra cargo space in comparison - it makes more sense why someone would choose these LWB ‘Murican SUVs now.
That being said, it depends how often these vehicles are going to be used for hauls like this to justify such a huge vehicle (the size has its drawbacks in other areas). But if they are going to be used for multi-person hauling like this, it makes sense after all.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/21/2017 at 16:54, STARS: 1
I mean, really, they should just get a minivan, but with all the minivan stigma (which is hugely irrational IMHO) there is a market for not-minivan vehicles that have the room of a minivan.
Now here’s pic overload because my OCD has latched onto this topic haha.
Pacifica for reference:
As you can see, many of the non-premium 3-row CUVs do a half decent job approximating (but not equaling) the Pacifica. Pilot and Traverse get the closest.
Explorer
Atlas
Pilot
Traverse
Premium 3-rows are just smaller overall. Some of the cargo areas are alright but the 3rd rows are often dinky. The MDX is basically a Pilot but with a swoopier design so less room inside. The Mercedes GLS is also reasonably roomy-ish.
Discovery
Q7
XC90
MDX
Mercedes GLS
Full-size trucks, with the exception of the Land Cruiser/LX570, mostly give you minivan-approximating room.
Land Cruiser/LX570
Armada/QX80
Expedition/Navigator SWB
And then if you absolutely must have 8 seats plus a large cargo area behind them, the LWB ‘Murricans are in their own class.
GM LWB
But you’re absolutely right, for the most part it’s pretty dumb to choose to drive a bigass truck just to get room equal to a minivan in a luxury branded, non-minivan shape.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/21/2017 at 19:54, STARS: 0
Sometimes life gives me Oppo-related nuggets, like this Escalade with a 5-kid, 2-pet stick figure family.
