by "Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
Published 06/17/2017 at 16:52
by "Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
Published 06/17/2017 at 16:52
No Tags
STARS: 13
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Warning: potentially an unpopular opinion. But it’s mine, so if you read, you’re just going to have to deal with that :)
A friend on Facebook shared this quiz: How Privileged Are You?
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A bunch of her friends starting responding. The overall comment thread became something of a competition to see who could be the “least privileged”. This is an interesting phenomenon. Basically, it’s a string of people competing to be the most victimized.
There has been a very interesting societal change happening and it’s one that I think is particularly dangerous to America’s competitiveness in the global marketplace. It has become “uncool” to be successful. Let that sink in for a moment - if you’re the best, at anything, then you are the worst.
“Success” has been reclassified as “privilege”.
This is offensive in so many ways. I’ve had to work hard and scrape for every last drop of success in my life. Yes, I have more than some people, but it’s really not that difficult to see why. It’s not because I was born into a certain class (my father has worked in the same factory since he was teenager and I’ve lived in a couple not-so-great neighborhoods). It’s because I work hard and do my best to utilize my intelligence. When something goes wrong, I move on. I don’t wallow, and blame society when someone steals my stuff. I don’t have student loans because I spent 12 years (including while I was in college) working my ass off to pay them off. Shit isn’t fair and the sooner you accept that, the way our parents and their parents did, the sooner you will succeed.
Earning points for suicide and homelessness!
This thing really grinds my gears. They award points for having been homeless and considering suicide.
Now tell me: when in business or government will winning a competition to the bottom of degeneracy ever get us anywhere? Does China look at America and say “Oh wow, you have gender issues? We’ll take 20% off the electronics because we pity you.”. No. They don’t. Does Russia tell their agents “Go easy on America, they might have an eating disorder.” No. They don’t.
Weaknesses are not strengths. They are weaknesses. Other people will exploit you for them. Getting exploited for the same thing over and over doesn’t make you special, it makes you an idiot. “Fool me once...” and all of that.
In an interview with Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg, Hilary Clinton recently blamed the Russian government, sexism, the media, the democrats financial situation, the FBI, and the Republicans for having an unfair advantage because they work together.
Dear America - if you keep going down the road of playing the victim and following the victim, you yourself will truly become the victim.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/17/2017 at 17:06, STARS: 7
Just because we have “X” issue doesn’t mean we should ignore “Y” issue. I have nothing against rewarding hard work but, my god, some people need a damn break and hard work money.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 17:11, STARS: 1
If hard work equaled money, I would have things like a retirement.
We can’t have both because misery loves company. It’s viral and bad for everyone else. Keep your victimhood to yourself.
"CB" (jrcb)
06/17/2017 at 17:19, STARS: 5
I have a bit of an issue with “keep victimhood to yourself”. If a vast number of people are suffering from something, it should be spoken about. However, I agree with you that it shouldn’t be used as a pissing contest for “well, I have it worse”, or trying to say devalue people based on their perceived privilege in society. It should be used to try to change things for the better.
For example, with the public transit thing, it can be a huge issue, especially if your only transit option sucks. If people have to contend with issues like routes not running on weekends (which can prevent people from being able to run errands, or at least make things take longer), the cost, or having to transfer between multiple transit agencies like in the GTA, then maybe we should do something to make it better.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/17/2017 at 17:27, STARS: 1
I’m not a victim of the system, far from it. My parents worked hard and spent responsibly so that both my sister and I could get an education. I have a masters degree, no debt, and I make a decent salary as an Architectural Intern.
I’ve watched I’ve also watched friends and colleagues struggle just to pay rent. I’m not saying that people shouldn’t work and be rewarded for it, but it’s sadistic to think they should have to live in constant fear of homelessness.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
06/17/2017 at 17:27, STARS: 3
It’s possible to be relatively successful without losing sight of where you came from. There is privilege and luck of course because the things you have and the money you earn did not come from working that much harder than the people below your income level. There are people earning twice as much as others while working half as hard. That is privilege.
Just as it may be easy for people in hard times to take this victim card too far, it is too easy to stand above them and tell them it’s their fault for their poorness, that they’re just not working hard enough, that if I could do it, you can too!
I have two jobs, one a plush 9-5 in finance and another part time in service. There is something you notice immediately; the people in these service jobs work hard, really damn hard, doing jobs some of these “stop complaining and work harder!” folks would think is below them to do.
And I agree that quiz is stupid. It has nothing to do with the real issues that we need to deal with to relieve suffering and poverty.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/17/2017 at 17:40, STARS: 8
No, that is not at all what “privilege” is referring to, and no one is expecting Russia or China or whoever else to “go easy on America” because of it. At both interpersonal and systemic levels, it’s just something to be aware of and boils down to the simple concept of “don’t be born on third base thinking you hit a triple.” Like if two people are working in the same exact job, someone who grew up homeless *might have* faced a few different obstacles to get to that same status as someone who grew up in a stable home environment.
And I’m not convinced that it’s become uncool to be “successful,” which you seem to be defining as “wealthy.” Maybe less stigma around discussing struggle, which I don’t see as inherently negative.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
06/17/2017 at 17:54, STARS: 5
People with privildege, in my experience, tend to get defensive when their privilege is pointed out to them.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
06/17/2017 at 17:57, STARS: 4
Maybe less stigma around discussing privilege itself. More to the point, how White are you? That’s what all this mostly is about.
People with privilege get red in the face when their privilege is pointed out to them, in my experience. (And you only see the red because they’re White.)
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
06/17/2017 at 18:20, STARS: 6
A Facebook quiz about privilege is an indication that American society is eroding?
A society that used to require separate bathrooms for people of diferent races.
A society that used to accept lynchings.
A society that still wants to tell people who they can marry.
A society that still wants to tell women what they can do to their own bodies.
A society that once fired water hoses and sicked dogs on black children protesting for equal rights.
A society that still allows for cops to shoot and kill unarmed black men.
A society that once committed genocide against the tribes living on the land they niw claim as their own.
A society that shits all over thise same tribes, and pollutes their water with uranium and petrochemicals.
A society that blames women for being raped.
Yeah, a facebook quiz.
The real sign of societal decay is the fact you can be successful while not having a fucking clue about the society you’re profiting from.
We are a clueless society.
Time for a beer.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 0
For your reference, I scored a 39 on that quiz. Not privileged.
But I appreciate your passive aggressive response.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:27, STARS: 0
I never I said people should live in constant fear of homelessness. Check your mental lens. :)
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 1
Poor choice of words. I just don’t think other people should try to drag others down with them.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:36, STARS: 0
So you’re assuming I’m white? Are you assuming my race? Why don’t you assume my gender while you’re at it :)
You see how unbelievably ridiculous this crap has gotten? I get it, you think that your own failures are someone else’s fault because you were born different than the majority and you think that it’s insane that someone would think otherwise. Your lens is your lens. I accept that about you.
Just understand that at some point, things like credit card debt aren’t a function of society shitting on you, it’s not a badge of honor among your peers to see who can have the most, and it’s just a cumulative personal failure.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:38, STARS: 0
Success means many things to many people. It’s not really wealth. It’s a reaching a level of personal satisfaction. For people it’s money, but for others its marriage, kids, etc.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:41, STARS: 0
Thanks for the rational reply. I certainly hear you on the working hard point. I’ve worked in service, offices, etc. I’ve been and seen these people. As you pointed out, the quiz has nothing to do with real issues. Whether or not you’ve thought about suicide has nothing to do with needing better education and less segregation (for example).
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 18:44, STARS: 0
We have made significant progress. But applying a filter of grandeur to being a victim isn’t the right direction. You never get anywhere on social issues by arguing that you’re victim. That’s circular.
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
06/17/2017 at 18:45, STARS: 0
I’ve had some advantages, I’ve also had some disadvantages. Just about anybody living in America pointing out other people’s privileges needs to spend time in a legitimately terrible place.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/17/2017 at 18:45, STARS: 0
Tangent: Being salaried isn’t necessarily a good thing. Stagnant wages, unpaid overtime, rising costs of living making you effectively worse off by the day... Unless your salary is sufficiently high, it may not mean much of anything. You might make more than the guy who made your Big Mac.
As for the rest of that quiz, I’ll just be waaaaay over here eating mah Oatmeal Squares.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/17/2017 at 19:08, STARS: 3
The concept of racial privilege just means that although individual white people may not be actively racist, we can unconsciously benefit from others’ bias against racial minorities. If someone’s more willing to hire me because I’m white, that’s an example of privilege. It doesn’t mean that I’m lazy, or that I didn’t earn my qualifications, or that anyone who doesn’t have that privilege thinks it’s a badge of honor or that they have “cumulative personal failure.” If someone’s less willing to hire me because I am a woman with an engagement ring and they assume I’m going to get pregnant any minute now, any male applicants they might prefer due to that have privilege of their own.
TL;DR Having privilege doesn’t mean you’re an asshole or you’ve never faced hardships, just that sometimes others’ bias works in your favor. Sometimes these attributes overlap, and that’s called intersectionality.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/17/2017 at 19:14, STARS: 0
The suicide question is pertinent to mental health (depression has to do with brain chemistry, not just “feeling sorry for oneself” or whatever people used to think) and access to treatment.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
06/17/2017 at 19:36, STARS: 1
I don’t assume anything about you. I simply shared a particle of my own experience.
The question is whether or not someone is White, but
how White they are
. Or aren’t. In our society, the rest, including vast worldly possessions, is largely meaningless.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
06/17/2017 at 19:41, STARS: 2
Your score is immaterial to me.
But I appreciate your defensive response.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/17/2017 at 19:54, STARS: 4
that isn’t what the whole “privilege” or “check your privilege” thing means. what it means is “stop assuming everybody else always has the same opportunities as you, equally available all the time.” It means “don’t act like poor people are poor simply because they’re stupid, lazy, and/or just want a handout.” You may tout the claim that you’ve “had to work hard and scrape for every last drop of success in your life,” but most people of your ilk greatly under-represent how many people have helped you to succeed. For example, you state yourself that your father worked hard to support you, and you worked hard to do well in school.
Well, what about some poor kid in Detroit? Growing up likely w/o a father present, stuck in the bankrupt and dysfunctional Detroit Public School system, and stuck living in a neighborhood riddled with gang- and drug-related gun violence. Are you going to sit there and tell him that he just has to “work hard and scrape for every last drop of success in his life?” as though it’s just that easy? Kid’s afraid to walk to school because there was a drive-by on his block the day before. He simply doesn’t have the same opportunities and support systems that you did. And to act like he should have makes you sound like this guy. Yes, I know it’s satire, but it’s not far off the mark.
and don’t try to tell me your success has come entirely at your own hand, without one single other person helping you at all.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
06/17/2017 at 19:59, STARS: 2
I think the the whole privilige thing is a big thing to be aware of, and more often than not its highlighting is poorly executed.
Often empathy and sympathy are intertwined. I think a huge decline is empathy to what our fellow Americans are going through. Anytime someone in my family would complain, my father would always say “someone always has it worse”. When we were little we did a trip in Mexico and that was an eye-opening experience.
"Funktheduck" (funktheduck)
06/17/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 1
I’ll just say this “quiz” is horse shit
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 20:52, STARS: 0
There are drivebys in the neighborhood that I live in right now and I would tell anyone, regardless of whether they have a father or not, that they need to work hard and never make excuses. That’s great advise no matter who you are.
Inequalities exist. That’s a fact. But actively working to diminish the achievement of others and form a race to the bottom is inexcusable.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/17/2017 at 21:28, STARS: 2
wow, you key in on one particular detail of my hypothetical situation and act like it invalidates my entire point.
you are incredibly tone deaf.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/17/2017 at 21:33, STARS: 0
you’re talking to a brick wall. “Christians” don’t know the first thing about what that weird “Jesus Christ” guy said.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/17/2017 at 21:36, STARS: 2
it isn’t about “applying a filter of grandeur to being a victim.” It’s about trying to get you to realize you directly benefit from society’s biases in your favor, and to get you to stop shitting on people who are harmed by society’s biases.
that you seem to think those biases don’t matter highlight the kind of person you are.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 21:53, STARS: 0
And you resort to insults. Congratulations on going there.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/17/2017 at 21:56, STARS: 0
I’m not “shitting” on anyone.
People who are actually harmed by bias should be appalled at these frauds who use every little thing to play the victim.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/17/2017 at 22:09, STARS: 1
“Tone deaf” isn’t nor is it meant to be an insult.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
06/17/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 1
I will have a salaried job and no student debt because I am not a dipshit and understand time value of money, so I am going to live with my parents, suck it up, and chunk all my student loans so I can succeed in life.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
06/18/2017 at 00:27, STARS: 1
A filter of grandeur? You’re as clueless as the people you’re calling out. Our society hasn’t made gains. We’ve jus done a better job of covering up our transgressions. We are a nation of morons who have been given everything through the genocide of the humans who first settled this land. “Our” society was in decline as soon as the first Europeans set foot on these shores.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/18/2017 at 00:55, STARS: 0
We haven’t made gains? You were okay with women not having the right to vote? With a large portion of the population being considered property? You think that’s a cover-up? You should be hospitalized with delusions like that. It must be difficult for you, thinking that you’re implicated in genocide for being born.
"CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)" (ccpbb)
06/18/2017 at 02:58, STARS: 2
Pissing contests to see who is less privileged than others never leads to good things, from my own experience. It’s meaningless and doesn’t get anywhere.
We all go through things and sometimes we get into stuff nobody wants to have. Nobody wants to have depression. Nobody wants to have PTSD. Nobody wants a bunch of student loans. Nobody wants a parent dying in 5th grade.
A little story on privilege to elaborate: A friend was once talking openly about his father’s high paying job as a government contractor and the value of his familial residence. Among the people listening to the conversation was someone who had lost his father in 5th grade. His mother was struggling but he did not say anything. After that person (who lost their father) left, another friend admonished (the gov contractor child) him to shut the fuck up about his father’s work as his family is going through the exact opposite level of fruition.
It’s not victimhood, it’s seeing what base you can start off of. Some people can start off to 1st base from the home plate with no issue. If someone has parents who are deadbeats or gets excommunicated by their parents, you’re not really starting from home base. You’re starting from the dumpster at Panera and going from there. Some detractions from home base are systemic, as other opponauts have said. Often being someone of color, or being born into a shoddy school district will take you back from home base. We can’t be blind to all the factors that make up our lives on a macro and micro level and just insist “bootstraps motherfucker.”
Oh yeah, the Democrats dug their own grave when they chose Hillary for 2016. Hillary Clinton should be someone nobody (and I mean nobody) should look up to. Neoliberals, ugh, they disgust me, no matter which party they derive from. Buzzfeed does good journalism, but their polls are awful and exist for the advertising dollars. At least they’re spending it on quality journalism.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
06/18/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 2
I never said I agreed with any of those things happening.
Yes, women can vote. And they still have to worry about walking alone at night for fear of being raped and are told what they can and can’t do with their bodies. Yes, slavery (as it once existed) is gone, yet black men are encarcerated at rates far higher than white men, and have to worry about getting killed by police for driving with broken tail lights.
Wake up.
I don’t hide from truth, I face it and learn from it. Living in reality isn’t hard as long as you’re well adjusted. That’s why you don’t see me decrying the fall of American society based on Facebook comments...
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/18/2017 at 13:29, STARS: 1
It must be difficult for you, thinking that you’re implicated in genocide for being born.
I get that it’s more fun to reply to inflammatory comments, but I’ll reiterate: that is not what privilege means.
There is also something called class privilege, which is exactly what it sounds like: those from the upper class getting a leg up just by being born into higher status, having the right family connections, knowing how to navigate high society bullshit and indicate belonging. Everyone else who wasn’t born with that advantage needs to put in extra work to get to that level, and those with that privilege should understand that. It doesn’t negate any work they may do as an individual, just that they had a lot of help by starting at a point that most people have to climb to.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
06/18/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 0
I understand what class privilege is but I think you’re missing the point. There’s a large group of people who quite literally compete to see who is the biggest victim. That is in no way a healthy behavior.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/18/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 0
Whereas I could’ve had no student debt by going to Cornell on their full ride offer, but I guess I’m a dipshit for going to the school I liked better (that also has a better aerospace program) and taking on debt that I’ve since paid off with my salaried jobs ¯\(°_o)/¯ living with my parents wasn’t an option, both of them needed me to leave so they could rent out my room for cash.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/18/2017 at 13:40, STARS: 1
I think you’re missing the point by assuming that whatever is going on in your friend’s facebook comments is indicative of a nationwide race to the bottom instead of just people having the terminology available to them to discuss structures of inequality.