by "Milky" (jordanmielke)
Published 06/15/2017 at 11:17
by "Milky" (jordanmielke)
Published 06/15/2017 at 11:17
Tags: Miata
; MX5
; NC
; ND
; Car Buying
STARS: 0
Back at it again with the car shopping, which would oppo buy?
First up is a black 2013 Club for $14,500 with 41k miles. Just like the last red club I posted about it kind of seems like too good of a deal. The last one had a salvage title but this one says clean and also - “Price is $14,495 which is under KBB value and about $4k less than dealerships are charging for similar year/miles.” Okay, but why?
Next up is just a nice blue ‘ 08 PRHT with 41k miles for $14k. Hard top and heated seats would be nice for winters but unsure if it has the suspension package with needed LSD. Wouldn’t have to worry about anything fishy since it seems appropriately priced.
Then there is the one that is more than you want to spend but is real nice.
2016 Grand Touring launch edition with 18k miles for $19k. Has everything but an LSD, which could always be added. It would be nice to have a car that will look “new” for the next 5 or more years. Just have to go way down south to get it.
CURVEBALL - 300hp American Miata.
2007 with only 5k miles for $20k. Essentially new and has the GM performance tune.
What would oppo buy?
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/15/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 1
The Club, having the LSD is worth it.
"Aremmes" (aremmes)
06/15/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 3
Like with cameras, the best Miata is the Miata that you have. Barring that, a ‘94 R package is the best Miata.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
06/15/2017 at 11:25, STARS: 1
Blue
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/15/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 0
Unpopular opinion probably but id go with the NC if it has the package with LSD. I absolutely love that color combo and the hardtop, and think the NC is the natural progression style wise from NA and NB. The ND looks cool but is a completely different style.
First ND looks fishy, last one im just not a fan of the color or the fact that it doesnt have LSD.
Whenever I see an NC with that interior I think to myself, that may not be the fastest or sharpest miata, but its the only one id buy myself. And its still a great drivers car so who cares.
"Aremmes" (aremmes)
06/15/2017 at 11:28, STARS: 0
As for the ones that you posted, that ND seems like a bargain. The NC was a fat pig compared to every other Miata generation, specially with the PHRT.
"misfitmascots" (misfitmascots)
06/15/2017 at 11:31, STARS: 0
Pontiac
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 0
Currently my favorite. Think I might just have to call and be like “Why is it $4k below what you could get?”
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
06/15/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 0
ND, that soul red
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:35, STARS: 1
I am completely in line with your last paragraph. I commute through Detroit, certainly don’t need the sharpest Miata.
I’m going to be close to it this weekend, might see if the dealer is open and test drive it.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/15/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 0
The ND is a non-starter for me because the seats don’t recline enough for me to get a comfortable seating position.
The NC Grand Touring often (but not always) combined the aero kit with the suspension package which includes the LSD.
You could contact the seller of the PHRT and ask them to peek in the wheel wells and see what color the shocks are. If they’re yellow, that’s the Bilsteins in the suspension package. Or if it’s local to you, you could always do the same when you check it out.
I’d be inclined to go for the PHRT for winter and the additional options. Also being an ’08 and at a little small time local used car dealer, there should be room to talk that price way down.
Hell, they may have had the car for a rather long time since it’s clearly pictured in this shot on their website...
Then again, it could be a relatively recent photo, because they still also have most of the other cars in that picture listed in their inventory.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:40, STARS: 1
I do like driving around with an American flag on July 4th. Couldn’t do that with a Mazda.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
06/15/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 0
That solstice is impressive but CP all day. I’d go with the NC Club or PRHT depending on if you’ll be dailying it. Personally I wouldn’t daily a Club. I’d go with the PRHT because I love blue, I love hardtops in a daily driver, and I *believe* that all NCs had LSDs but don’t quote me on that. I’d avoid the ND since it’s more than you want to spend and the transmissions have issues if driven hard.
EDIT: also that blue NC has my favorite interior. Damn. Give 2 jake pls.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 1
The fat pig with a hard top would probably make my Detroit commute in the winter better though. I get your point but I’m not on a race track daily.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 0
It is pretty and will still look new in 2022. Just need to weigh that against how quickly I want to pay it off.
"jvirgs drives a Subaru" (jvirgs)
06/15/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 2
Fiat 124 Abarth. Looks way better than the current Miata IMO
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 0
Ha, they park it the roof half open. But I’m actually going to be by it this weekend. Think I’ll have to stop and look in the wheel wells (and test drive). No LSD would be a deal breaker, but if it has one, it would certainly be the best for when it snows.
"Aremmes" (aremmes)
06/15/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 0
True ‘nuf, it’ll very likely go over less-ideal roads more comfortably, provided that you don’t have the Sport suspension package.
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/15/2017 at 11:46, STARS: 0
To me it seems like if you are coming from an NA or NB miata the NC may seem big and heavy, but compared to any other car it is still nimble and lightweight. I would track an NB and daily the NC.
The ND is obviously the newest and will probably also be comfortable enough to daily while also being lighter than the NC, but a nice one with LSD will probably run closer to 20k while an NC you can get closer to 12k.
In terms of looks I think just lowering the NC slightly makes it instantly look slimmer and more like the previous two generations. Really love this lip spoiler too:
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/15/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 0
Shit, just saw that you added the kappa platform twins. Get it. Those things with minor suspension tweaks and better tires are great handlers. Not as light or sharp as the miata stock but who cares. 260hp? Yes please.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
06/15/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 0
“ “Price is $14,495 which is under KBB value and about $4k less than dealerships are charging for similar year/miles.” Okay, but why?”
I don’t think the price is necessarily a sign of problems. They are asking just under private party kbb price. A private party will almost always ask less than a dealership, particularly when dealing with a financed car.
The blue hardtop is awesome. But the black club seems like a better deal assuming it’s in good condition.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 0
I want one, won’t lie. But the cheapest one I could find is $22k and Imo the base models don’t look good and also don’t have a LSD.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/15/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
Yeah, the PHRT is somewhat better for winter but don’t expect it to be all that much quieter inside. Because it isn’t.
Also from my experience with DD’ing an LSD-equipped NB for 4 years in Wisconsin, even with snow tires, you can very easily get the back end to step out. LSD doesn’t keep you from sliding, it just makes it easy to control the slide. The NC has traction control which the NB didn’t so that may help. Or just slow you down.
"SPAMBot - Horse Doctor" (spambot2002)
06/15/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
I love the NC clubs but I’ve always had a soft spot for the Solstice/Sky twins. My mom had one and it was the car that turned me on to small roadsters. I remember it being fun to drive and more solid than a Miatas. Practicality is shit and it isn’t as nimble as a Miata but has (a lot) more power/torque. Out of the options above, I would go with the Solstice. This is coming from someone who has owned two Miatas. If all things were not phishy, my ranking would be:
Solstice
Club
ND
NC PRHT
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/15/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
I favor the Launch Edition simply because new, cool, and warranty. However, that blue PRHT with saddle interior would be hard to pass up.
And hey, those Pontiacs/Saturns still go for more than I would think every time I see them.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 1
My issue with the Kappa twins is the lack of space. My only car is a Crossfire, I’m used to limited storage, but damn they do not offer a lot in terms of practicality. Power would be really nice though.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 0
Yea I don’t want to stop any sliding .... just have more control and not just be spinning one wheel. I used to drift my old SC400 all the time until I crashed, I’m more responsible now by only drifting in the snow, lol.
I don’t think the noise will be a problem, just unsure how a soft top would be with snow and ice.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 1
The PRHT does have a really nice color combo. I actually wonder if the club is any stiffer than my car. Themanwiththesauce has been known to say the Crossfire’s suspension is intolerable but I’ve been doing just fine with it for the last 4 years.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 12:22, STARS: 0
That trunk worries me though. Or rather the lack of a trunk with the Solstice. If I’m honest all I really do is highway driving so 300hp would be really compared to 160 .... I should go test drive it.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 12:23, STARS: 1
WARRANTY. I’ve never had one and I didn’t even think of that.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 0
Its probably worth just asking the owner since it is the cheapest non totaled Club I’ve come across.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/15/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 1
Be careful, they’re addictive.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
06/15/2017 at 12:37, STARS: 0
Having had enough miatas, I’d go for he 300hp option and budget some money for whatever issues will inevitably surface when putting an old, low mileage car back into regular service.
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
06/15/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 0
If ergonomics and the convertible experience matter to you much, I’d pass on the Solstice. It’s tight, tub-like, and the top positively sucks in terms of ease of use and trunk space occupation compared to the Miatas. No denying it’s got quite an advantage in the performance potential per $$$ category though.
I’d also shy away from early NDs due to their propensity for transmission issues. People have been busting those up under relatively benign circumstances. Mazda strengthened the box up not too long ago to (hopefully) alleviate those issues. Check the VIN to know for sure: https://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=8288578&postcount=76
In NC land, since you mentioned winter usage, the ‘08 might be the way to go if it has LSD and/or you can talk the price down just a bit. The PRHT makes for a nice worry-free, year-round daily and mine has been dead reliable for ~100k miles so far. It’s probably been mentioned already, but yellow shocks = suspension package = LSD. Also FYI - Price to swap in an LSD if it doesn’t have one ranges from ~$700 (used OEM LSD pumpkin DIY swap) to ~$2300 (fancy aftermarket LSD + shop install).
If you have any interest in track days or autocross, the ‘13 Club would be the way to go due to the ‘09+ mechanical revisions and a lighter top that can much more readily fit a suitable roll bar. Mazda did sharpen up the sport package suspension in the post-facelift cars, but I’d be surprised if it’d be too punishing to daily. You’d probably just have to see for yourself though. Price-wise it seems like a very good deal compared to other similar listings, so some additional scrutiny would definitely be encouraged.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
06/15/2017 at 13:10, STARS: 1
The Solstice every day! Especially being a GXP
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
06/15/2017 at 13:34, STARS: 0
I would buy the NC PRHT. Depreciated and comfortable.
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
06/15/2017 at 14:06, STARS: 1
I love the look of the Soltice and 300hp is quite a bit... Do it
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 14:12, STARS: 1
Its a bit wild that I would do in 3 months what the previous owner did in 10 years. Hell, might even be on the original tires.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
06/15/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 1
It was kind of like with my corvette. The original owner put 55k on it in 22 years. I put another 34k on it in 2 years.
"Vicente Esteve" (vicente-esteve)
06/15/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 1
If the 2013 is that good of a deal I’d go with that.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/15/2017 at 15:34, STARS: 0
I figured all Mazdas were reliable, didn’t know there were transmissions issues. I do have an interest in rallycross, really want to give that a shot when I buy something.
Buying something with an LSD is probably just the way to go since it will be a year round car. The Club is a good deal assuming all is well with it. If I go with it, I will for sure have it looked at by a shop before I buy and probably get a hard top before winter hits.
Since you seem like a Miata wiz, do you what the ‘09+ mechanical changes were? I just want the refreshed NC for the aux input so I don’t have to mess with the stereo, lol.
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
06/15/2017 at 16:55, STARS: 1
Here are the main highlights:
Engine : several internal bits strengthened/improved (crank, rods, bearings, valve springs, pins, etc.) to improve durability, provide a 500 RPM redline increase, and bump power output by a whopping 1 HP. This isn’t to say the pre-’09 engines are bad though. There were some issues with very early ‘06s (bad rods IIRC), but otherwise they’re perfectly fine. The MZR engine is pretty far from being stressed-out until you start throwing throwing boost at it.
Transmission : some minor strengthening + slightly wider set of ratios for the 6-speed. Previously, the 6-speed’s total spread was almost identical to the 5-speed, so gears were pretty short and there was no added benefit in highway economy. General consensus was that Mazda should have done this from the start.
Suspension : geometry tweaked for a lower roll center and more linear feel. Springs and shocks were tweaked (at least for the sport suspension, not sure about standard) to improve handling performance. The pre-’09 sport suspension reportedly didn’t make much of a difference over the standard suspension, so anything would have helped there really.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/16/2017 at 03:49, STARS: 0
As good as Miata’s are Id stay away from 1st year ND.
Club sport for me
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/16/2017 at 10:10, STARS: 0
After a day of thinking it over, thats the one I’m more interested in. Its under warranty, whats the worst that could happen?
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/16/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 0
Thank you toast. All of that seems like good upgrades.
Currently really into the Club and ND. Will definitely have to see/ask if the transmission has any problems. It is still under warranty though.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/16/2017 at 11:25, STARS: 0
yea and the few NC’s i know i havent heard of many major issues with them
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
06/16/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 0
No problem. The ‘09+ cars really are the ideal pick for NCs IMO. I say that even as someone with an ‘07 that has been enjoying it without issue for nearly 10 years now. The earlier cars are still good, but I can’t really come up with a compelling reason to go for one if you can find an ‘09+ with the features you want in your price range.
A lightly used ND is undoubtedly a good pick too, just with that caveat regarding the transmission. Below are the relevant tech bulletins describing the symptoms and transmission label that you could look for when checking it out. I’d just be worried if the car didn’t have the upgraded transmission or I didn’t know for sure I’d be able to get it replaced before the warranty ran out (like being able to demonstrate it and get a commitment from a dealer before purchase).