by "AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
Published 06/14/2017 at 22:44
by "AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
Published 06/14/2017 at 22:44
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STARS: 0
For a 200 square foot studio with shared bath, communal kitchen and no parking. Not even street parking. This is the housing situation near me, absolutely brutal. And despite the insane number of new housing developments, prices are only going up. Even the “cheap” areas are now well beyond affordable. It’s a major problem when double the minimum wage—in a state with one of the highest minimum wages—is not enough for even a small apartment. Anyone smarter than I that sees a solution for affordable housing..?
"avalonian" (avalonain19)
06/14/2017 at 22:46, STARS: 0
Damn, that sucks. What state is that?
"itranthelasttimeiparkedit" (itranthelasttimeiparkedit)
06/14/2017 at 22:47, STARS: 1
I think seattle is in washington
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 0
Yep, good ol’ Western Washington. Great state, but man do you pay for it...
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
06/14/2017 at 22:54, STARS: 0
Haha lol. $900/mo gets you a bedroom here.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 22:59, STARS: 0
There were plenty of 900ish/month singles rooms too. Hell, I saw a living room listed for more than my friend pays for his apartment in Colorado!
Where are you, roughly?
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
06/14/2017 at 23:02, STARS: 1
$720 for 400 square feet in San Antonio ^_^
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
06/14/2017 at 23:02, STARS: 0
Cape Cod
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
06/14/2017 at 23:04, STARS: 1
About the only way I can see to do it is to have planned expansion, including either laws requiring, or financial incentives that strongly suggest, that density be increased based on demand.
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
06/14/2017 at 23:08, STARS: 1
it is crazy - the apartment we rented 10 years ago for $850 a month is going for $2500... That’s what happens when you run don’t build any new units for years because of the recession and then add 50,000 tech jobs to the area...
"razorbeamteam" (razorbeamteam)
06/14/2017 at 23:08, STARS: 0
I just moved out of a 1 bedroom in Chicago for $1,050, in Lincoln Park too, but I had lived there so long they never raised my rent. Good tenants are hard to find here so most landlords don’t raise rent too much once you stay a year without burning the place down or making erratic rent payments.
"CB" (jrcb)
06/14/2017 at 23:11, STARS: 0
Moving in with my girlfriend in a few weeks, where we’ll be paying $1000 CAD for a two bedroom place. I can’t wait, because I’m used to seeing ridiculous housing prices in Toronto.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 23:14, STARS: 0
Yeah, Toronto and Vancouver are where I look when I want to feel a bit better about Seattle home prices. Although all 3 are routinely on “top 10 most expensive places to live“ lists so....
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/14/2017 at 23:14, STARS: 2
well, if you want to move to Michigan, $1000/mo can get you a 3BR house with 2.5 car garage and a fenced yard in a nice area, pets allowed, walking distance to 4-5 bars downtown and 20 minutes north of Detroit.
"nermal" (nermal)
06/14/2017 at 23:15, STARS: 0
The nice thing is that we have transportation. Car / Bus / Bike / Train / Etc.
Once you figure out your source of income, find a place you can afford, and use transportation to connect the two. If the financial math doesn’t work out, move around the three options until it does. Easier said than done in a lot of instances, but not impossible in any.
I don’t see what the issue is with market rate housing. If somebody is willing to pay more for a certain high-demand rental unit, why not let the landlord charge that?
"CB" (jrcb)
06/14/2017 at 23:16, STARS: 0
Yup. My mum’s friend down the street just sold his house. Small-ish and a knockdown, and he got $2.4 million CAD for it. It’s nuts here.
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
06/14/2017 at 23:20, STARS: 1
Let the government do what it is actually supposed to do.
"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
06/14/2017 at 23:30, STARS: 0
Massive Amazon/Microsoft layoffs?
I moved here in 2004, and I felt like I was living in
Singles.
This place was still cool, a bit edgy with a definite 60s vibe and lots of cool people from all walks of life. I hung with diesel mechanics, a UPS guy, engineers, architects, an elevator repairman, CPAs, computer programmers, musicians, cooks, a helicopter pilot and some folks who worked at the local Home Depot. And it was relatively expensive, but $48K/yr meant two cars, a 900 sq.ft. apartment with 2 covered spots, and plenty of cash left over.
I’ve also seen it bust badly before during the financial crisis- there’s arguments to be made for “things are different now,” but I’m not sure it’s sustainable if interest rates go up, or there’s a big job shock.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 23:34, STARS: 1
I think the issue is that there is a huge gap in available housing for those making between 30 and 60,000 a year. People are willing to pay more... Because they’re moving in from out of state to take advantage of the super desirable pnw living. So tons of students, recently graduated, and skilled labor workers who have lived here since childhood get priced out completely. This is one thing where I’d be happy to see some state funding go.
We’re lucky enough to have pretty fantastic roads compared to the vast majority of the country, definitely can’t complain about the transportation available.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 23:35, STARS: 1
I do, after reading that. I’ll probably go back to college in the next year or so. Pursuing a career path that allows me to move to a more affordable area would be smart
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 0
You’d think affordable housing would be one thing both sides could agree on. Although obviously making places affordable is easier said than done...
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
06/14/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 0
New York Oppos are like: shit, that’s cheap.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 1
A co-worker of mine just paid nearly half a million for a 2000 sq ft tract house on a 4000 sq ft lot (I shit you not) in Mill Creek. Husband and wife both worth in south Bellevue. Have fun with that commute!
It’s not just insane rent, but housing prices, too. I blame a mix of Californicators and offshore black money being laundered in the real estate casino, just like in Vancouver.
I wish I knew a solution, but with the FIRE cabal in control of most policy from the city to federal level, I can’t imagine.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 23:40, STARS: 1
I’m young enough that I don’t really know how big of an impact a financial crisis would have on this. It seems impossible to me that something could make much of a difference, but again no experience with that...
As much as I do enjoy being the testing bed for new Amazon services, this is just nuts. Makes me empathize for our San Francisco neighbors down South
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/14/2017 at 23:48, STARS: 0
Mill Creek. Damn. I’ve definitely seen a large increase in the distance the tech sector is willing to drive if it means a larger home. Which is bad for all of us, because now the outlying areas that were always a bit cheaper are getting to be just as bad as Kirkland, Redmond, Sammamish, etc. Well if nothing else, it’s good motivation to work on getting a more promising career. Should probably get started on that...
I’m based out of Redmond, between Union Hill and Novelty Hill, so I though I’d look a bit further out. Duvall, Fall City, Northbend. Yikes. They’ve all gone up substantially, with just the occasional MIL home at a reasonable price. Wondering if there are any areas that have fallen through the cracks and resisted the steady increase.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 23:53, STARS: 1
The eastside is done for detached housing, no bargains. Hell, decent old houses in Kent are 300K+ now, and better parts of Auburn are probably next. I don’t want a mortgage more than 3x or so income - I don’t see how even some of these tech people do it, but I know a lot of people have help from mommy and daddy even when role-playing as adults.
Maybe Bremerton (fun commute), Tacoma (be careful), Mt. Vernon, Olympia, Aberdeen, Yakima, Moses Lake? :)
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 00:09, STARS: 0
There’s nothing and nowhere within even a half decent commute anymore. Blame the big sites, it’s all online and when they see a price they like, they buy it instantly. Even places like Monroe are increasing rapidly (and the housing stock out there is pure garbage - we have friends that bought a place in the mid-300s out there that probably cost $60k brand new, and it has clearly seen better days).
In spite of the total household income my wife and I pull down (well into the 6-figures after taxes), but we are literally looking at distressed properties and low-grade fixers because anything big enough for a family in decent condition is out of our price range.
Last year my wife’s grandmother died and they sold her rough house down in the ghetto near Rainier Ave about 3-4 miles south of I-90. They paid over half a million dollars for the place after a small bidding war. My mind was blown.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 00:13, STARS: 1
Our area is approaching the Bay Area situation. People keep moving longer and longer commutes out. People that aren’t pulling down big money there are often commuting hours to the Central Valley for housing.
Kitsap county is shooting up in price as well because it’s close enough to Seattle and was semi-affordable. A lot of people commute from places like Silverdale all the way to the east side every day...
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/15/2017 at 00:22, STARS: 0
I can believe it. Six figure incomes in this area are vastly different compared to six figure incomes in most parts of the US. Throw in a couple of kids, a bit of debt, maybe some medical bills...
I remember making minimum wage in high school thinking “if I could just hit $10/hr AFTER taxes I’d be set”.
Then it was “$20/hr is a lot of money, think of how much I could do with that!”
Then “once I hit $60k I should be able to live comfortably and be able to save, while still having fun”
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 00:27, STARS: 0
Bremerton is being rapidly gentrified and prices have been rising rapidly the last couple years.
I have the same mortgage problem - I don’t want over that and in spite of our income, nothing is realistically in our price range.
If she didn’t have to go to an office for her job, I’d be working on getting a full time telecommuting job and moving way out on the Olympic Peninsula.
Sadly, even those areas are going up fast. I know a couple people that commute clear from Sequim into Seattle everyday. It’s insane.
Our PNW field service manager that just quit was displaced by housing prices about a year ago, at which point he moved to Yakima and commuted in to our office twice a week. That’s how far he had to go for affordable housing.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 00:39, STARS: 0
What’s scary is that we live in a very expensive zip code in Bellevue and our income is in the top 10% of incomes for the area (the house we live in is worth over a million dollars), but we have no hope of actually buying something in this area. Most neighbors bought 10+ years ago or are Chinese immigrants with no discernible employment.
There are also a handful of houses within walking distance of our place that are sitting vacant that appear to primarily exist for money laundering, as they have been sold without ever hitting an MLS and appear to have been vacant for years. A couple of them are even boarded up and overrun with weeds...
"Svart Smart, traded in his Smart" (svartsmart)
06/15/2017 at 00:55, STARS: 0
I’ll know I’ve made it when I can afford to *rent* a newly constructed studio apartment on Capitol Hill for $2000/month. I might be able to afford a small condominium someday but the idea of home ownership is seems like such a distant idea that it’s almost not worth thinking about.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/15/2017 at 00:59, STARS: 1
I’m genuinely curious as to what the capitol hill crowd DOES that allows them to live there. Don’t they all work in hip coffee shops/salons/cafés/nightclubs etc.? That’s my understanding from the occasional visits.
Maybe the next big thing will be homes purchased by groups of three or four friends. Or, say, two couples.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
06/15/2017 at 01:21, STARS: 0
Portland isn’t terribly far behind. There is no way this is sustainable. Want to buy a house? Better be willing to put some work in if it’s under 300k.
"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
06/15/2017 at 01:59, STARS: 0
We have a similar problem here in the UK, particularly in the South and London. It’s basically because demand is massively outstripping supply, so people can get crazy prices for stuff. There will have to be ample supply before prices will become sensible. This is difficult because housing companies know that if they don’t flood the market, prices stay high and more profit for less work.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/15/2017 at 01:59, STARS: 2
Good try, but even Mount Vernon has new track housing of modest size going for over 300k. Freaking sticks just south of Burlington. 300k!
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/15/2017 at 02:01, STARS: 1
60k doesn’t get much of anything without some severe budgeting now D:
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/15/2017 at 02:02, STARS: 1
Yakima is... just awful.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/15/2017 at 02:05, STARS: 0
Three years ago I worked at a newer apartment building on Madison and Summit in east Capitol Hill where 1 and 2 bedrooms went from 3k to 4k a month. I bet they’re asking 5k or more now...
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 02:18, STARS: 0
It is, but people do what they must to take care of their families...
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/15/2017 at 02:24, STARS: 0
They sure do
(I live in Everett)
((I actually like Everett but it is what it is))
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/15/2017 at 02:29, STARS: 1
I need to look into this “combined incomes” thing you and Mrs Zoidberg have going for ya.
Is it proper etiquette to wait until the 3rd date before discussing garage requirements..?
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
06/15/2017 at 02:34, STARS: 0
So what happens when it can’t be sustained anymore? Does the housing market tank and values are cut in half? Or do they just level out, or stop going up as quickly? Genuine question from someone who hasn’t been in the adult world long enough to see these fluctuations.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
06/15/2017 at 02:34, STARS: 1
Don’t ask me for advice. I’ve only had one successful relationship
[Knocks on wood]
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
06/15/2017 at 02:55, STARS: 1
Wish I could answer that. Maybe people start moving away? Maybe the market crashes again? I fix cars, not economies. But I know my employee’s wages can’t keep up with it and there’s nothing I can do about it. They’re having to work longer hours and cut back on fun stuff big time.
"random001" (random001)
06/15/2017 at 06:19, STARS: 0
Buy an RV? I think monthly hookups are definitely cheaper than that, and you can move around at will.
"random001" (random001)
06/15/2017 at 06:23, STARS: 0
Come to Dayton! My mortgage costs a little more than that, and my house is 2648 sq ft, not counting the full floor plan unfinished laboratory/basement...
"fintail" (fintail)
06/15/2017 at 09:10, STARS: 0
People will do it as they can’t pay 1MM for the same pile of foam and particle board in Bellevue.
I guess that means one will have to drive to Ferndale or Tumwater. You can still get in around 300K in Bellingham, but it won’t be particularly nice.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/15/2017 at 09:14, STARS: 1
It’s funny how the deplorable new regime whines ad nauseam about “vetting”, yet there is no “vetting” for sources of money, money that would likely put a person in prison if it was obtained the same way here.
Vancouver has recently instituted a 15% tax on offshore purchasers, and is mulling a vacant property tax. Cities in this region should do the same, but make it 50%, and make the vacant tax both punitive and onerous, if not crushing. We need infrastructure and affordable housing money, if we’re going to be a haven for stolen fortunes, might as well put the money to good use.
I read last year that over half of detached purchases in 98004 are to offshore cash buyers, and I suspet it is similar with condos. Look at some of the newer condo towers in DT Bellevue at night - obviously vacant, but sold.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/15/2017 at 09:17, STARS: 0
But you can still get something livable for 300K, I think. 300K seems to be the same as the ~75K cutoff that luckyboomers enjoyed 30-35 years ago - except that ~75K then could still buy something in Magnolia or west Bellevue.
I am glad I am single, with no real pressure for a detached property. Yakima is a bit of a hike, I might have tried north or south first, or maybe Ellensburg at most.
I work in Bellevue and have known people who commute from Bellingham or Puyallup. The latter can be a 2 hour drive on even a modestly bad morning.
"cletus44 aka Clayton Seams" (cletus44)
06/15/2017 at 09:33, STARS: 0
I found the same issue when I moved to Toronto. Rather than pay retail (which is insane here) I fronted the money and rented an entire large home. From there I sub-letted all the rooms and the rent money I get from that pays the majority of my housing costs. I also get a 2-car garage which is super rare in Toronto downtown. I’ve done this for three houses now (not concurrently) and it’s the only way to fly if you can’t afford a deposit on a house.
"Svart Smart, traded in his Smart" (svartsmart)
06/15/2017 at 10:22, STARS: 0
Well, I knew one guy who worked in marketing for our local coffee giant, but I just assume the rest mostly work in the tech industry.
"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
06/15/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 0
Yeah it can be big - as an example, the area I’m in now selling prices dropped by 50%. My landlord bought the house we’re in 4 years ago. It’s nearly doubled since then and surpassed its prior peak from 2007. Does not compute for me, but apparently it does for the computer nerds. I knew a few people who left in 2008-09, they ended up selling at a huge loss.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 1
I completely agree with every one of your points.
The condo tower I lived in, slightly outside the Seattle sphere at the time I moved in (completely within when I left), was at least 80% vacant for all but 1-2 months of the year. The only year-round residents were us renters on both sides of the courtyard side of the third floor and 4-5 owners spread around the outside edges. About 60% of the condos were never occupied and hadn’t been since the building was constructed in 2007 (and this is nowhere near the most egregious examples I’ve seen around here lately).
I haven’t been to DT Bellevue at night, but this doesn’t surprise me at all. The ones I can identify in Seattle also seem to be empty at night.
This also stands in stark contrast to the condos I lived in down in San Diego, where every single unit was occupied unless someone died, then only unoccupied until it was sold to another owner-occupier. The building boasted effectively 100% occupancy (with only 2 rental units out of a total of 95 units) from the time it was built until after I left. Last I heard, it’s still a functional community, too. It’s the only time I’ve ever seen that...
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
06/15/2017 at 16:20, STARS: 0
Fuck dude, that is the same thing down here in SLO. It is part of the reason I am moving home
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 17:06, STARS: 0
Was it actually ~75k 35 years ago in Seattle? In Los Angeles ~75-80k would buy you a nice 3/1 postwar tract home within the prime 10-20 mile commute radius of downtown. I thought around that time Seattle was suffering from some major economic troubles. The house I live in sold for $120k in 1984 when it was brand new and it is the best-constructed wooden SFH I’ve ever seen. It was obviously originally intended for higher-paid people working in the tech sector of the time (it’s 2 miles from the Microsoft campus)... The current estimated value is just shy of 10x what it sold for then, which is completely beyond our budget (we’d need to pull down at least 400k/year to hit this, which I don’t see happening anytime soon).
There is some housing in rougher/distant locations to the north and south in the 300k+ range, but they’re all a brutal hour or more commute each way from anywhere that pays enough to afford them...
I guess my standards are probably slightly higher than most - my parents live in a 5/3 house that only cost them 123k in 1997 (their prior house was a 4/3 that cost 59k in 1992). Since I now have a family, my target is a 3/2+ or 2/2+ (I need a space for desks/computers outside bedrooms used for sleeping, plus a nursery/bedroom for our target 1.5 children.), SFH or townhome (with 2+ car garage), that is a reasonable commute from where I work.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 17:13, STARS: 0
My nerdy coworkers think I’m some kind of godlike being because I somehow married an educated girl with good money management skills, a job, and a strong work ethic. They all want me to tell them how I did it, but I don’t have the slightest clue. I believe I simply got lucky.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 17:18, STARS: 0
I am afraid of Everett (not as much as Tacoma, but still up there), but I’ve heard that the area and the outskirts around it (ex: Marysville) are the up-and-coming area for young people looking to raise a family because it’s the closest place with semi-affordable housing.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 18:04, STARS: 0
It depends. There has been some upward pressure on wages around here, but nowhere near enough to make 1M+ homes seem reasonable.
I feel like my entire adult life has been so defined by unconscionable bubbles and crashes that I can’t even speculate on the right move anymore. Renting worked for me, but it might not much longer as rent is rising as fast as prices. It’s possible that housing will crash again like it has before. It’s also possible that it’ll level and wait for wages to rise (but they’re quite stagnant, so it could take generations at the current rate). Interest rates could jump, which would make financing impossible. Random external events could destroy all demand (wars, famines, pandemics, etc). It’s just impossible to predict.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/15/2017 at 18:07, STARS: 0
SF ones might be, too. But it doesn’t mean it’s affordable. NYC incomes are higher for more average workers, too.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/15/2017 at 21:23, STARS: 0
In a place with the woes of Seattle, vacant units like that should come with massive penalties to the owners. Keep the units occupied, or sell them, or have them sold for you without your permission.
Bellevue Towers (NE 4th and 106th) was built in 06-07, right as the market crashed. It took a couple years to sell them all, but they sold. Drive by even during the day and you can see the empty units, and it is stark at night. This is repeated in other buildings, too.
I don’t think there is much sense of community in any condo tower here, via the vacancy issue even more than the aloof local personality traits.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/15/2017 at 21:33, STARS: 0
Seattle crashed in the early 70s, but I think it was booming by the late 70s, and I don’t think it crashed much during the 80s, even during the hard times of the early 80s. Certainly in my memory (I was 5 35 years ago, so some of it may be cloudy), it has always been booming. I don’t have any personal experience with prices then, but I have friends and family who do. I have always kind of studied residential development, it fascinates me, so it sticks in my mind.
I know of a boomer couple who bought a 50s era tract house in 98004, north of Bellevue Square, in 1983 for something like 80K. The old house isn’t worth a lot today, but the land is probably worth seven figures, and it is not a large lot. A friend of mine’s parents bought a 50s era house in Medina around 1992 for 240K. It is worth about 10x that now - the house has been renovated, but is not luxury - it’s all about location. Another friend’s family had a new house built in Kirkland, west of Market (2 blocks from the water) in 1985 for something like 120K - typical ~2500 sq ft cedar style 80s house. It has to be worth 10x that now. I don’t know if these gains will be seen by the people leveraging it all to buy today. I know people who put nothing, or the minimum, into retirement accounts, it all goes to the house. Others received parental aid, which must be nice.
On the flipside, my mom lives in a small town 2-3 hours from the city. Lovely houses there can be had for 250K, and livable ones easily for 100K. But, few amenities in the town, and the commute would be soul-destroying.
I am glad I am single, enjoying it after some drama, but I’d like to have a garage. The building I live in now has one space per unit (but many couples here, have fun with that). I have to rent a garage for the old car. However, in a way, it is a relief - I simply can’t afford a place within a reasonable distance, even with a decent income, so no use trying - I can use the money I don’t pay into a HOA or maintenance to save for hopeful retirement, and living a little.