by "mkbruin, Atlas VP" (mkbruin)
Published 06/14/2017 at 10:02
by "mkbruin, Atlas VP" (mkbruin)
Published 06/14/2017 at 10:02
No Tags
STARS: 10
Politics warning. Discussing the shooting from a different angle.
Last night a gunman opened fire on republican senators playing softball. Allegedly, the gunman asked whether the players were republican or democrat prior to opening fire. Given it’s still extremely early in the reporting cycle and many more facts are yet to come, however it appears that this shooting was politically motivated.
Going back a few years, when Rep. Gifford was shot during a campaign stop in Arizona the press and the democrats pounced on the supposed inflammatory statements by Republicans that led to the shooting. Of course, it turned out that the shooter was just mentally impaired and not a partisan zealot. And while that may be the case for this shooting too, it’s fully impossible to ignore the inflammatory comments coming from the left.
Republicans have been so demonized by the left and the press that it would not take a leap of faith to see how the fringe could be pushed to violence, especially after seeing the relative success and acceptance of the use or threat of violence to shut down conservative voices on college campuses. Especially after the success of assassination porn being promoted from the left.
My exit question is, at what point does the left take responsibility for the atmosphere of hatred it has created through the use of it’s rhetoric? How many senators have to be shot before people realize that the absolute demonization of the opposition has crossed from trying to win an election into something far more dangerous?
"Rico" (ricorich)
06/14/2017 at 10:07, STARS: 17
When will both parties come up with better gun laws that make sense and prevent crazy shit like this from happening?
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 10:09, STARS: 16
The left will tone down their rhetoric and fantasies about offing the opposition as soon as the so-called right does likewise (heck, you can be a one trick pony idiot dinosaur righty and preach such fantasy and still get a WH invite). Translation: it ain’t gonna happen. If anything, idiotic rhetoric and irresponsibility are unifying traits for both slightly different parts of the same corporatist spectrum.
The right aren’t victims, sorry.
In my area, the college campus issue was some gun-toting inbreds who came looking for trouble and are now in deep caca for shooting someone without just cause.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/14/2017 at 10:09, STARS: 17
“Atmosphere of hatred created by the left”? Um yeah, no.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
06/14/2017 at 10:10, STARS: 21
When republicans take responsibility for white power elements and racists in “freedom” “anti-sharia” rallies? Or for that guy in Portland who murders two people standing up for a Muslim woman on a train? I mean, I don’t see the point here. Maybe some people blamed Gifford on republicans, I certainly didn’t.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
06/14/2017 at 10:11, STARS: 1
They haven’t really done so yet, so it’s only a matter of time until they begin to take it if they do decide to take any responsibility.
"CB" (jrcb)
06/14/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 8
Yeah, I totally get where you’re coming from. The issue is, we’ve created such an environment of us versus them that these acts will be done by fringes on the both sides. The only solution I can see would never be possible, as it would require us to understand each others’ views and not be assholes when it came to disagreements.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
06/14/2017 at 10:14, STARS: 11
Rand Paul is already emphasizing how everyone was defenseless because they didn’t have guns. I’m by no means anti-gun, but I don’t see how anyone could think that it isn’t at all terrifying to think that we live in a country where you have to carry a gun while playing baseball.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/14/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 12
way more things killing way more people than guns. Plus, it’s absolutely impossible to stop this sort of thing from happening.
"random001" (random001)
06/14/2017 at 10:16, STARS: 2
Counterpoint: when does the right take responsibility for being just as extreme in their rhetoric as the left, and vice versa, and everyone lets go of their partisan bullshit and actually tries to make the country work again?
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 6
The problem is, you can switch around left and right in that statement and still be accurate.
Everything’s fucked. That’s the point here
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 2
That was my point. The left doesn’t have a monopoly on this, as the OP seems to suggest.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
06/14/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 4
The guy in Portland was a staunch Sanders/Stein supporter if I’m not mistaken.
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"deekster_caddy" (deekster_caddy)
06/14/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 1
When will both sides start working together instead of everything being black and white, yes or no, ok or not? The ‘atmosphere of hatred’ - this has been going on pretty much since the Obama administration. So many people got very worked up against everything he tried to do that it really solidified this political atmosphere.
There really, really needs to be some way to release the grip of the two-party hold on our politics. I don’t think anything much is going to change until the extremes are backed away from and people can start meeting in the middle again, and that goes to both sides.
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
06/14/2017 at 10:24, STARS: 6
Who on “the left” promoted violence? Keep in mind, our current president made vague, threatening tweets publically to incite violence against other citizens. What politicians on “the left” need to take responsibility? And don’t say a washed up comedian represents elected officials.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/14/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 22
Oh that must be why he was at an alt right rally literally the week before.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/14/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 3
My takeaway: we need better gun laws.
Also, your “assasination porn” argument is bullshit. None of the people I know want to see that, but we also support artistic expression whether or not we agree with the content. I hate edgy comedy/artists/commentators, and their work shouldn’t appear at universities, but they’re free to do it elsewhere.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/14/2017 at 10:30, STARS: 6
State vouchers need to be handed out for “stress relief” massage parlors. Many lives will be saved.
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
06/14/2017 at 10:30, STARS: 5
BOOM! YOU GOT YAMAHOG’D, SUCKASSSSSSS!!!!!!!
"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
06/14/2017 at 10:31, STARS: 1
I don’t think that’s the college campus issue he’s talking about. (And correct me if I’m wrong, but) I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the suppression of even remotely conservative ideas/speech on college campuses/“radicalization” of students by professors/inability of students to even entertain views that don’t align with their own.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 10:32, STARS: 1
Eh... misread you. This seemed one of the more balanced of these posts, I thought that was his point too. Still might be, too, dunno.
Either way, someone needs to be the first to pull on their big boy pants and stop saying “no YOU first”. As long as we’re agreed on that... good day to you sir
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 10:32, STARS: 2
Never, they revel in it. The right-wing radicals are modeled after left-wing radicals. They saw it got results, so they incorporated their rhetoric and methods. They hate master trolls that are just doing exactly what they’ve been doing for decades because they disagree with them.
I’ve been betting on a civil war for a while now. The media and both sides are complicit in creating a culture of division that under the right circumstances will turn into a violent rebellion. My gut feeling is that it will start on the coasts in high-density left-leaning cities, likely during a scarcity event.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 7
Citing Tucker Carlson (or anything on Faux News) is not convincing.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 2
it’s only bad when the other side does it.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
06/14/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 1
https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/portland-suspect?utm_term=.td9Dp1qwe#.rpl8bX67E
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
06/14/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 0
So you’re a MOPAR hater AND a Trumpkin? I can see that we will get along nicely.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/14/2017 at 10:36, STARS: 0
The liberal fascist would be wearing more black and less camo.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 10:36, STARS: 1
when the impulsive, spoiled, petulant, impatient, and grabby Boomers are gone.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 10:37, STARS: 2
I don’t know, plenty of controversy when garbage like Spencer is allowed to speak on campus, which has happened numerous times. Plenty of lefties moaning and whining when these people show up, plenty of righties coming and looking for a fight.
Historically, you won’t find many conservative voices on any campus. This isn’t a new thing. Go back to the turgid late 60s, same ideal, similar protests, just more empty threats today. The inability to handle views not in line with one’s own appears to be just as much a trait of the self-titled right.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 0
That’s the most succinct conclusion from all of this.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
06/14/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 2
Still doesn’t change the fact he was a Sanders/Stein supporter
I didn’t say anything besides the Sanders/Stein support.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/14/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 0
lol :]
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
06/14/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 1
Citing CNN isn’t much better.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
06/14/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 0
I don’t like Trump. I’m a Republican, but I preferred Cruz, Rubio, and Bush.
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
06/14/2017 at 10:42, STARS: 2
“it’s absolutely impossible to stop this sort of thing from happening.”
The rest of the world disagrees with this statement. Yes, guns ar enot the be all, end all murder weapon. And the guns we ban - big, clunky, expensive rifles are very rarely used in these scenarios. Handguns are far and away the most popular.
....And my state just said concealed carry permits no longer require safety classes and training -_-
So no, it is very far from impossible to prevent this from happening. But we’re governed by dumb fucks who take their marching orders from even dumber fucks.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 6
I didn’t cite CNN, so stick your strawman. You’re the worst kind of toady; you sit in your little bubble and comfort yourself by only listening to “news” which supports what you already believe. You already believe that the mainstream media is a bunch of evil liberals, so you let Sean Hannity soothe you when he says “there there, it’s alright, yes they’re all liberal fascists but I’m here to defend you.”
REALITY IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE. Reality exists across a spectrum. I’m utterly fucking disgusted how people seem to believe they have to align along one of two extremes.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO HARD FOR ONE EXTREME SIDE.
"jkm7680" (jkm7680)
06/14/2017 at 10:44, STARS: 1
Juuuust you wait until somebody starts twisting the story.
Events like this build even further on my political views. Shit like this happening makes my blood boil.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/14/2017 at 10:45, STARS: 2
ITT: horseshoe theory, horseshoe theory everywhere
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
06/14/2017 at 10:46, STARS: 0
Allegedly, the gunman asked whether the players were republican or democrat prior to opening fire.
Perhaps it’s best to have this discussion when we have more information. Unfortunately, both sides will use this event, and others like it, to demonize the other side.
"Maxima Speed" (maximaspeed)
06/14/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 1
They never will, until they get the revolution they want. I had never even considered that the left would resort to armed violence until after Ttump got elected, after the outpouring of hatred I thought “you know they might actually revolt”.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
06/14/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 0
I don’t go for one extreme side. I don’t limit myself to conservative news networks and sources. I watch CNN on a daily basis and receive news updates from their app. I am a Republican, but that doesn’t mean I go to the extreme right or anything.
I never said you did cite it, but CNN is up there with Fox News as one of the largest news networks in the country.
"CB" (jrcb)
06/14/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 2
Canada has pretty stringent gun laws, and we still have gun ownership rates similar to those of the United States, with a homicide rate that’s about a third of yours.
My issue is the fact that the ATF had a list of gun stores and dealers that were selling high amounts of firearms used in crimes, yet the NRA interfered and has prevented them from really doing anything about it. This terrifies me because that could lead to guns getting smuggled into Canada (and more importantly, Mexico), leading to a more dangerous environment. Meanwhile, the RCMP just shut down a gun store in Alberta for not properly checking firearms licenses when selling.
It’d be nice if the US thought about how their actions actually affect other nations.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 3
yeah, show me “The Left’s” Alex Jones.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 2
I’d rather not live in a theocracy, thank you very much.
"garagemonkee" (monke)
06/14/2017 at 10:49, STARS: 1
The extremes are basically the same! Can’t you see?!
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/14/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 1
I think you’ve reinforced my point. We need stricter oversight of gun dealers and shows, and better tracking of guns after they are sold.
"itschrome" (itschrome)
06/14/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 0
this is bullshit. no side is to blame. they are both to blame. every one is to blame. can’t we all just stop being shitty to each other and pitting us vs them?
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/14/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 1
indeed
Crazy people are crazy. If someone is that committed to shoot up a place, I highly doubt they’d think, “oh wait.... someone in there might have a concealed carry permit...... nah, never mind then”
You can have all the gun control ever, it will not prevent crazy people from mass killing with ANY ITEM they can get a hold of.
So many debates and money spent to prevent 20 people from dying one week when 20,000+ are dying from easily preventable non weapons related things
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/14/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 2
Watching that exasperated wing nut fail to understand everything his guests are saying would be hilarious if it wasn’t so incredibly sad.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
06/14/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 1
It was a white guy with a gun, he probably has an INFOWARS sticker on his truck. How is it the left’s fault?
"Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs" (yowen)
06/14/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 1
The rhetoric was NOT started by the left. It’s our petty president that starts this kind of rhetoric, he did it just recently when he denounced the democrats for “not one of them will be voting for the best health care bill America has ever seen ever”. Sadly I’m barely paraphrasing there.
Even a glance at the bill will show you that it’s a tax break aimed at the rich. This mind you is a bill that hasn’t even been published yet. So why would anyone vote for it? It has had zero oversight.
Anyway, aside from that bill Trump & Co consistently put out these kinds of statements. It’s immature and inflammatory.
So if the right won’t take responsibility for that, why should the left? This partisan divide started because a bunch of assholes voted for an asshole. I can politically speaking forgive a lot, but anyone I know to have voted for Trump, it hurts me a little, not enough to hate that person, but enough for me to ever so slightly dislike them. It was SUCH a poor choice. And it’s proven over and over, day after day.
The political landscape is fucked, it’s a war. Left vs. Right, never before (in my lifetime) have I seen such a stark contrast. Such animosity. But how am I supposed to support someone that consistently tries to push ill-conceived policy through that is aimed at making the rich much much richer. And many other ill-motivated policies. It makes me sick and I am sure it makes the left sick. Therefore they aren’t take responsibility, I don’t think they need to. They need to fight this monstrosity of an administration. I literally feel it’s a threat to humanity.
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
06/14/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 1
Oh lawd...
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
06/14/2017 at 11:00, STARS: 0
I’m very much disgusted with the current republican party, but even then, cracking jokes at the victims is not cool.
I sincerely hope they all recover and that the shooter is duly tried and punished.
However, I do hope that there is a lesson learned from this tragedy, that they can listen to people and compromise before it makes someone desparate enough to bring a gun to baseball practice.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
06/14/2017 at 11:01, STARS: 1
I rarely jump into a political discussion. There are crazy people regardless of political affiliation. I don’t trust any politician to act accordingly in response to an irrational event.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
06/14/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 4
Inb4 “I’M A TRUMP VOTER AND I TOTALLY HAVE GAY BLACK FRIENDS” maybe talk to your buddies Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence then
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
06/14/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 6
Republicans have been so demonized by the left and the press...
When they stop trying to accuse me for raping women and children I’ll be glad to let off them.
Both sides are shit, by the way...though shitty for different and sometimes the same reasons (usually money in politics for the latter). However, it is pretty clear which party is the worst party at this current moment in time.
"InfinityAero" (infinityaero)
06/14/2017 at 11:07, STARS: 4
Probably around the time Trump takes responsibility for his supporters beating the shit out of protestors at his rallies during his candidacy. You can’t embrace violence on one side and then condemn it on the other. Meanwhile people voted in a candidate who had body slammed a reporter a day before the election. It sends a message that violence is a currency of change and control.
It’s only logical that the violence is more likely to come from those that feel disenfranchised by a political system that has enabled someone with a 3M vote deficit and a massive congressional imbalance even though more people nationally voted for democrats. Maybe we will see more mass shootings and attacks from self-professed liberals; we definitely had more mass shootings and attacks from conservatives in the 8 years of Obama, and that was without a huge congressional majority and one parties policies basically needing nothing but a rubber stamp to pass.
As far as these mass shooters, there will always be insane people for whom religion or politics is a cover for vile terrorist actions. We saw it with Giffords in Arizona and now with this baseball practice today. Was the Giffords shooter inspired by Sarah Palin’s target practice website? Is there some equivalent website that put literal targets over the republicans at the practice? In the end, yes our rhetoric and political anger stokes the flames, but we *do* have freedom of speech.
On another note, God forbid we have better mental health coverage in this country or even a modicum of control over who gets to own weapons. People with serious mental issues *don’t* get help in this country, and many of them own or have easy access to guns. It’s not just politicians that need to be scared— it’s all of us. Sadly, the response from the Republicans and aides that were there seems to be “I wish I had a gun to shoot back at that guy”, rather than “I wish that guy hadn’t been able to acquire a gun”. Seems we’ll get baseball uniforms with holsters before we get common sense gun proliferation legislation.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
06/14/2017 at 11:07, STARS: 3
Agreed. I would also argue that if you feel you are defenseless without a gun you need to learn what weapons truly are.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
06/14/2017 at 11:08, STARS: 1
Cenk Uygur is the closest you’ll get?? Though he’s just very very very very mad...not actively fucked up like con men like Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh.
"V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8" (xv10xsoundxriotx)
06/14/2017 at 11:09, STARS: 5
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This is the suspect, Jeremy Christian, at that “Alt-Right” rally. He was using the Nazi salute and saying the n-word as a means to prove that these Free Speech advocates were not actually for free speech. After doing so, he was told to leave the rally because of the usage of such motions and words. If you read through his Facebook page below, you will see that he is clearly mentally unstable and a staunch Bernie supporter (I would recommend reading through his posts from now to the election day) . To paint him as a white-supremacist and Alt-Right, and not as mentally unstable, is ridiculous.
Christian’s Account:
https://www.facebook.com/jeremy.christian.581
One of the most egregious posts is one on 11/21/16 where he states he can’t wait for the Assassination of Sessions. In the comments section you will see how had posted “Blood Oaths” to assassinate Clinton and Trump. Other terrible posts include the fact that he mentioned how Hillary and her supporters were going to get a bullet from Bernie supporters. He also shares some conspiracy posts such as how 2 Astronomers claimed to have found 234 Aliens trying to contact Earth.
(I would embed some of the posts but I’m not sure how to on Kinja)
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 11:10, STARS: 0
I hadn’t heard of him until now.
but that’s because if there’s one thing about “news” I actively avoid it’s talking heads screaming their opinions at me.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
06/14/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 1
TBH Buzzfeed isn’t any higher in my book than Fox News lol.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
06/14/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 0
It isn’t on my choice of news sources either, but there’s so much reporting on this guy being a white nationalist that I didn’t bother finding another source. Plus it repeats the Sanders thing, which I’m not debating anyway, because I think Bernie played at some nasty nationalist popularism anyway.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
06/14/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 3
It was this morning, first of all. Second of all how can you possibly demonize the left and forgive the right? If anyone is generating an atmosphere of hatred it’s the right. The right that tells us homosexuality is wrong. The right that tells us all Muslims are dangerous. The right that constantly and consistently and systematically enacts policies that disadvantage the poor, the uneducated, the non-white, non-male portions of our populous.
What happened today was wrong no matter how you look at it. I don’t have all the facts, I don’t know if anyone has all the facts, but even if it WAS politically motivated it is ultimately not one side’s fault. As much as I just attacked the right here I know the left isn’t faultless. Politics is a mess right now, but if anyone should take responsibility for this attack it certainly doesn’t seem like it should be the left for disagreeing with the right.
Don’t even get me started on the choice and availability of the weapon that was used...
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
06/14/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 1
Demonizing occurs on both sides. We have lost the ability to sit down and try to understand what the other side is arguing and why they believe that. We have lost ability to agree to disagree civilly. We believe we are right and they must convert to the right way of thinking.
Until we can get back to compromise and not seeing opposing viewpoints as 100% wrong, we are screwed.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
06/14/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 0
Fair enough! I find he gets angry at just about the same things I do (thankfully, not everything) so I don’t mind. Plus they’re doing good work with their Wolf-PAC, which is something Miss Tesla and I donate to each month. :)
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 11:21, STARS: 0
Faux News is more a reflection of the left wing’s echo chamber talking points. They are producing garbage, but it’s based on more extreme and universal garbage. Nobody in the media took anyone to task from supposedly-legitimate news programs doing the exact same thing.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 11:22, STARS: 0
Turn on the TV. They’re everywhere. 99% of news organizations are comprised of them.
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
06/14/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 1
I disagree. It’s an awfully defeatist and selective viewpoint to say “Well this won’t stop everything so let’s not bother.”
I know it’s the poster child, but it’s the poster child for a reason. Australia’s gun buyback and restrictive laws after the port arthur massacre are documented proof that it does work at saving lives. Linking to snope because they link to other papers and articles.
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
Turn on the TV.
Why? I specifically said I don’t want to watch that shit.
"Hollabackatcha" (hollabackatcha)
06/14/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 2
Personally don’t like to jump into political discourse but I’m going to here. This is not exclusive to Democrats/Liberals. In fact, there’s more veiled hate speech and rhetoric from Republicans/Conservatives, in my opinion. Both sides need to step up and act like mature adults and act with the best intentions for the country and it’s citizens rather than their own personal interests and outdated beliefs.
The problem is, humans are petty and selfish, and there has never or will never be any kind of major compromise between the two sides. Well, I shouldn’t say that, while historically there have been, moving forward since about 1930, there have been far fewer and I don’t think we will ever see one again. The political system in the US has been broken for a number of decades and it will only continue to get worse.
While it is easy to say it is up to the politicians to grow up (for lack of a better encompassing term) the burden lies more on the citizens to do so, and send messages to those in Washington as strongly, and for as long as it takes (not violently though, that just fuels the flames). However, going back to humans being petty and selfish and stubborn - and the general attitude of a lot of Americans to dig their heels in the sand when faced with an opposing opinion/belief - it’s probably not going to happen. The US has had a decent run of it, but it’s been all downhill since about 1920 and will continue to be so until a lot of fucking people Wise Up & Rise Up©.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
06/14/2017 at 11:28, STARS: 0
Yeah but criminals will get guns no matter what we do right? They totally don’t get them through those channels.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/14/2017 at 11:37, STARS: 0
Criminals are actually all wizards. They’ll just conjure guns from the shadow realm, we can’t compete with magic so we should just stop trying
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
06/14/2017 at 11:37, STARS: 0
I personally am not a member of the left wing talking point echo chamber. There are certainly media outlets that are part of this echo chamber. Talking points suck. They’re only useful for riling up your base. That applies to both sides.
The right wing media likes to present itself against the supposedly left wing talking points-spouting “mainstream media.” The problem with this idea is it is incorrect to lump outlets which specialize in fact-based reporting in with the echo chamber outlets.
The fact-based reporting outlets may have editorial boards that tend to lean in one direction or another, but editorial and reporting content are two very different things. Traditional, mainstream media outlets (newspapers like the Washington Post, New York Times and the network, not cable, newscasts) take great pains to maintain the separation between editorial and reporting.
The reason there are so many unfriendly-to-the-right stories in those mainstream media reports are because the people who are the subjects of those reports did bad things which merit reporting to the public.
So when you have the likes of Fox News and Sinclair Broadcasting blurring the lines between editorial and reporting, and then at the same time criticizing the mainstream media that makes an effort to precisely not do that for being supposedly biased, it’s a load of crap.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 0
If you think it started with Obama, you’re either very young or very naive. It dates at least to the mid-1960s. This exact same atmosphere surrounded all the administrations in my lifetime (in fact, the Clinton and Obama admins got off easy on this front).
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 11:44, STARS: 0
I have little faith in Gen-X being any better. They are a nasty group on the whole as a result of being in the shadow of the Boomers.
"Jonee" (Jonee)
06/14/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 1
The left has created an atmosphere of hatred? Seriously? After 8 years of conservatives demonizing Obama in the most disgusting ways possible and now the left has created an atmosphere of hatred? Political discourse is at an all time low, but it takes a wacko to start shooting people on a baseball field. To point the finger at half the country won’t make anything better.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
06/14/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 0
A monopoly? No.
A majority share? Yeah.
I’m a moderate R who didn’t vote for Trump. Without coming from a place of overwhelming bias or one-sided narrative, the left these days are the ones touting most of the hateful rhetoric. The outgoing Democratic Party Chair led a crowd in chanting “Fuck Donald Trump”, middle fingers in the air, with Nancy Pelosi laughing on stage. Kathy Griffin posed with Trump’s bloody head. Shakespeare in the Park is currently doing a Julius Caesar play that has Donald Trump instead of Caesar (Trump gets murdered at the end). To many, the word “Republican” is synonymous with the phrase “neonazi fascist pig”. Aside from Griffin’s gaff, the other incidents have been heralded as “brave” and “though-provoking” by many in the media and the internet.
I’m not saying that this shit doesn’t go down with on the right side of the aisle, but when it does, it gets sliced and diced by the public. Nowadays, threatening to harm someone more conservative than you is considered warranted.
Again, I’m simply taking a step back and looking at the situation as it appears, not how Fox News/MSNBC tells me it is.
"Mister Win Blames People, Not Guns" (themarvelous1310)
06/14/2017 at 11:46, STARS: 2
Non-Republicans have been threatened for years, by scads of well-off Republicans with their Open Carry rallys, Not My President shirts and Blue Lives Matter rhetoric. Where was all this concern when anti-Democratic sentiment lead to Gabby Gifford got shot in the head? What about the atmosphere of hatred that got Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin and Philando Castile killed by supposed authority figures? Your argument is bullshit.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
06/14/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 1
#moderatesformoremasturbation
"jimz" (jimz)
06/14/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 0
I’m (late) Gen X.
"B/Xmrrmvr" (davidedumass)
06/14/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 0
If you read through his Facebook page below, you will see that he is clearly mentally unstable and a staunch Bernie supporter (I would recommend reading through his posts from now to the election day) . To paint him as a white-supremacist and Alt-Right, and not as mentally unstable, is ridiculous.
Yeah... “staunch Bernie supporter” is just as misleading and to call him a Bernie supporter, and not mentally unstable, is ridiculous.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 11:54, STARS: 0
But Canada also has a 1/10th the population, more territory, a more homogeneous population/culture, a more cohesive political system, and they don’t share a land border with a third world country. They have never really had the pervasive poverty and despondent underclasses with no upward mobility, either.
Interestingly, in spite of all the sensational news reporting that makes us think it’s more common, gun violence in the US has been on a strong decline since a peak in 1994. Today’s rate of gun violence is less than a third of what it was back then. Violence in general is down, although not as extremely as gun violence.
"Rico" (ricorich)
06/14/2017 at 11:56, STARS: 0
I know it’s impossible to stop is 100% of the time doesn’t mean you can’t try. I was disappointed in your response but then I remembered you’re from Texas.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
Gun ownership is already pretty onerous and the gun show loophole that is parroted has been closed by all the most populous states. Tracking would be nearly impossible to implement.
FFLs are already extremely heavily regulated. You clearly don’t know how the system works. Calling them “gun dealers” is employing terminology that reflects accepting arguments that depend on fallacies as a basis for your view of them.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
06/14/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
Imagine that.... maybe someday.
"B/Xmrrmvr" (davidedumass)
06/14/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 0
Still doesn’t change the fact he was a Sanders/Stein supporter
And? Plenty of Trumpers were Bernie-fans for the sole reason of being anti-Hillary. One of the guys he killed was an actual Bernie supporter.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 0
Oh, they’ve been like this for decades. They’ve just turned the stereo up to 13 from the former 11.
"CB" (jrcb)
06/14/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 0
Hence why I said homicide rate, which is about 4.88 per 100,000 for the US and 1.6-ish per 100,000 for Canada.
Our “homogeneous culture” is a bit of a farce. We have, quite obviously, a distinctive English and French culture that causes issues (look at the FLQ crisis and referendums on Quebec sovereignty for example), as well as pretty obvious divides caused by covering such a massive region. We also have an Indigenous population that is incarcerated at much higher rates than the rest of the population. Sure, we may not have a border with Mexico, but having a large and mostly unguarded border with the States can also be an issue.
And yeah, violent crime as a whole has been on the decline since the 90s in both Canada and the US, although the trend seems to be flattening out in more recent years. I studied criminology in university, so I’m well aware of the media hype around how dangerous things are versus the reality of the situation.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 0
I can’t even go as faar as a majority. When a useless old dinosaur who repeatedly insinuated violence (against “someone more” liberal than him) is swept under the rug by his increasingly senile fans and wingnuts who support Orange (and then given a WH invite), I find it hard to cry about the idiocy of the left. After the birtherism and religious charged lunacy of the right of the past near-decade, I find it hard to cry about middle fingers and f-bombs. Sorry, the fascist pigs made it clear who they voted for.
I am pretty sure there was a Caesar-themed play about Obama too, no whine from the so-called right then. No slicing and dicing. Why not?
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
06/14/2017 at 12:08, STARS: 0
Except that they literally are dealers, much like car dealers are. I grew up around the manufacturing community and have spent plenty of time in gun manufacturers’ shops. Gun ownership SHOULD be onerous, you’re not buying a TV or a couch, you’re buying a weapon.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
06/14/2017 at 12:14, STARS: 2
As an avid gun owner/supporter, you should absolutely not carry a loaded gun on a baseball field.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
06/14/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 0
At the very least, it make sliding onto base uncomfortable.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
06/14/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 1
How will gun laws prevent crazy shit like this from happening? Will it stop people from making bombs? Or running people over with trucks? Or stabbing people with knives ala london?
Banning guns will not make you appreciably safer. If anything, we are damn lucky these crazy folk aren’t smarter or there would be even more death and destruction.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
06/14/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 0
You are buying into the echo chamber machine. Rise above.
Trump was a reaction to this machine. It’s the backlash. He was hired as troll-in-chief, not as some kind of reflection of their political positions. Think of him as a grenade or a shot across the bow.
That nobody can see it is the most frightening thing.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
06/14/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 0
There was an Obama-esque character in a Julius Caesar play in a small theater in Minnesota. I find that in bad taste as well. They don’t quite have the same attendance as their New York counterpart, though.
Are you saying that, since SOME on the right have said bad things, that more on the left are justified when they say it?
Remove all political contexts from the issues and take a step back for a moment. There are two groups, Group A and Group B. Both sides have small subgroups within them that spout horrible things about the other group, but the subgroup in A is not only larger than the subgroup in B, but says slightly worse things than their counterpart. Who is the more righteous group, and should both sides simmer the hell down?
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
06/14/2017 at 12:30, STARS: 1
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"Cash Rewards" (cashrewards)
06/14/2017 at 12:36, STARS: 0
I agree with your second paragraph, up until the shot across the bow bit. Those aren’t supposed to cause harm. Trump is.
"fintail" (fintail)
06/14/2017 at 12:38, STARS: 0
Just like a dinosaur musician beloved by the less than greatest generation has a bit more of a rabid fanbase than a past her prime comedienne who peaked during the Clinton years. No screaming from the “right”.
I never insinuated that anyone is more justified than the other. However, the same holds true in terms of being less justified. These are equal players in a lame game.
“Worse” is subjective, and the sizes of subgroups also sound subjective, given the loud deplorable chatter resonating around so much of the country. Both sides shouldn’t just simmer down, they should start acting like adults - but if one side doesn’t, neither will the other, and a certain side pretending to be all about discipline and responsibility (while NEVER exhibiting such traits) certainly has no right to play the victim.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
06/14/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 1
“To all the men, women, and children in this free nation, go fuck yourselves! ”
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
06/14/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 0
I think the Majority Whip can claim to be the victim of a violent attack based on differing politics. As can every person that was there. And this “tit for tat” attitude belongs on the elementary school playground. “They hit me first” shouldn’t be an excuse for adults to continue throwing inflammatory statements (or worse, as today’s events showed) around.