by "MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
Published 06/13/2017 at 22:24
by "MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
Published 06/13/2017 at 22:24
Tags: car shopping
STARS: 0
So I’ve only driven a couple Chevy’s over the years and this was the first time I drove a newer 6.0 truck. This big boy below.
I was a bit concerned with the transmission. Inputs seemed delayed. If you stomped the throttle there would be a one or 2 second delay then it would shift down fairly hard and then finally get going. Is this just how these transmissions are programmed or should I be concerned about that?
On a related note I would qualify the 6.0 as being sufficient for this truck. It’s not going to break any butt dyno records but it does enough. The truck is very clean though, has 91k miles, and they are asking $21k for it. I thought the price still seemed a tad high, what say you OPPO?
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/13/2017 at 22:31, STARS: 1
Get a powerstroke. Heck even a gasser Ford would be better
"Tristan" (casselts)
06/13/2017 at 22:40, STARS: 0
NO.
The 6.0 is indescribable. I don’t know much about the characteristics of the 6L90E, but I haven’t really heard anything bad. The price seems pretty good, really. If you’re serious about it, take it in for a PPI.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
06/13/2017 at 22:46, STARS: 4
I haven’t driven a newer 6.0 liter, or any truck with a 6-speed trans, so take this for what it’s worth. Your description of stabbing the throttle, there being a second or two delay, then a hard downshift before it gets going, is an exact description of how the 4.8 and 4-speed trans has been set up for the entire 11 years and 121k miles I’ve owned it. That wouldn’t cause me any concern.
As for the price, it does seem a tad high, but then again they all seem overpriced to me these days. I don’t have a feel for the used truck market it any way, I’m always shopping for beaters the last few years.
"Spaceball-Two" (spaceball-two)
06/13/2017 at 22:51, STARS: 2
My 5.0 F150 XLT does that same thing. They’re big heavy rigs, takes a bit to get things moving. But once you’re going you’re going. I know you asked about Chevy but I paid around that for my truck and it’s been solid as a rock.
"Quadradeuce" (quadradeuce)
06/13/2017 at 22:52, STARS: 1
I have a GM truck with the 6 speed. That delay drives me nuts, but is totally normal. The hard shift concerns me. Mine shifts like butter compared to the older 4 speed sitting next to it in the garage.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
06/13/2017 at 22:57, STARS: 1
We have a couple of 6.0/6 speed GMT900, and yes, they delay. Sometimes it’s a smooth delay, and sometimes if you have to go for a pass, it’s so violent that it over-revs.
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
06/13/2017 at 23:05, STARS: 2
I have a 2010 1500 with the 5.3, but it’s a 6-speed too. That delay is pretty normal, as is harsh shifts when the trans is cold. The 6-speeds are pretty trouble free though, and the 6.0 is a tank of a motor if a little thirsty.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
06/13/2017 at 23:06, STARS: 1
This is pretty much exactly how our 5.3L with the 6 speed drives.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/13/2017 at 23:25, STARS: 1
The LS 6.0 is not a bad engine. Heck i have an LS1 im swapping.
But a 6.0 powerstroke it much better. And the 6.4. And the 6.7.
Or get a 7.3 and never buy another truck again
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
06/13/2017 at 23:38, STARS: 1
This is exactly how our 2012 duramax drives sometimes it really thunks but it is perfectly normal if anything it has taught me to drive the truck smoothly not with stabbing the throttle inputs. The duramax would be preferable over the 6.0 but I guess the diesels are very expense to repair.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 06:29, STARS: 1
I’ve had my eye on one powerstroke, they need to come down in price a bit though
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
06/14/2017 at 07:17, STARS: 0
too big for a normal car license here in Australia.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 07:36, STARS: 0
Really. You’d need a special license to drive this in Australia?
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
06/14/2017 at 07:51, STARS: 0
sadly yes, you need a light truck license.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 07:58, STARS: 0
What does getting a light truck license entail?
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
06/14/2017 at 08:08, STARS: 0
just looked at the Vicroads website, just have to have a car license for 12 months then you can apply for the light truck license.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 08:20, STARS: 0
Doesn’t sound too bad, and honestly it probably isn’t a bad idea.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 08:40, STARS: 1
Truck prices are literally insane. My 05 diesel was assigned a trade in value of just over $14K. With 331K miles on the clock, no less. And I’m sure they could clean it up and sell it for about $18K, and that someone would *buy* it for that price.
I don’t have direct experience with the 6L80E gearboxes, so I can’t tell you if that’s the shifting program or an issue. I can say that the Allison 1000 will delay downshifting until the turbo vanes reposition and boost builds, even during kickdown. But that may only apply to the Duramax trucks.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 08:42, STARS: 1
That’s programming. There’s two things going on. First, there’s a slight delay built into the throttle response beyond normal electronic lag. No idea why, unless it’s to deliberately make it uncomfortable to mat it. Then there’s torque management, which won’t give full beans right away to spare the transmission (among other things--pretty sure it stuck me in neutral a couple times too). Upshot is if you floor it while moving it lags for a few seconds.
It’s normal and they say it isn’t hurting anything, but it’s annoying as fuck. My truck did it too. Got it tuned, the tuner removed all artificial delay and backed off TM 75%. Felt like a new truck. Now if I have a need for WOT, it goes. It may hesitate for a split second before downshifting, but it’s at least at full throttle and solidly engaged.
Of course, I also added a Corvette servo and got the tuner to speed up the shifts a little—think he took a tenth off each iirc—so when it shifts it’s not dicking around about it. Doubt you’d need to do that. Or want to, really.
Pricing seems in range for what I’m seeing near me. 19-27k Canuckistan Pesos for 110-180k kilometers (70-110k miles). From private sellers. Don’t know how much better you’re going to find.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 08:44, STARS: 0
Yea, the prices are nuts. I really wish I could have pulled the trigger on a Duramax I had found recently, but I will be financing and the only people willing to do a loan on a high mileage vehicle (200k+) wanted 10% interest.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 08:45, STARS: 0
It’s mostly built in electronic lag that can be tuned out. Clunking from a coast is mechanical... it’s annoying as fuck but nothing that can be done, really. Just going smooth.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 08:46, STARS: 1
I’m not sure that any of the GM gassers had the issue with spark plugs breaking off in the head.
You know, like the Modular engines did on three valve heads from 04-07, including the V10.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 08:46, STARS: 0
I got my 4-speed tuned and upgraded the servo... now I can’t stand the smooth changes. Feels like nothing’s happening :)
"Quadradeuce" (quadradeuce)
06/14/2017 at 08:49, STARS: 1
I picked up mine used with 72k miles on it. For some reason I get paranoia with my used cars, assuming the worst is happening, so the harder shifts concerned me. I did a pan fluid and filter change and felt it shifter smoother. Might be in my head. We’re at 116k with no issues.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 08:49, STARS: 0
Mostly tuning. Mine did this all the time before tuning, after tuning it’s done it so rarely it scares me that the trans is going every time :)
I actually think it’s the traction control responding to the result of the weird tuning... every time I can remember it’s done this after the tune was in the wet.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 08:49, STARS: 1
When a truck like mine almost doubled in value over the last three years (I paid $8500 for my Silverado from a private seller; a Chevy dealer recently offered me a little over $14,000 in trade when I was looking at a Camaro SS 1LE), something is seriously out of whack in the used truck market.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 08:54, STARS: 1
Good to know that it’s a “feature” and not a defect. Truck pricing just seems crazy right now.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 08:54, STARS: 0
That’s a bit...er...insane.
I bought my truck for $8500 from a private seller. Those trucks usually go pretty fast, since there’s almost always a standing buyer, and they have cash.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 08:55, STARS: 0
I get paranoia every time I do something... I installed a rear swaybar that involved drilling through the frame. I have what was the toughest midsize truck frame but I worried for ages about my truck breaking in half. I actually messed up the servo initially and when I had it fixed it scared the shit out of me. Then the tuning results.
20-30,000 km to get used to them and I wouldn’t go back. It really is in your head.
That being said... it’s a “solid” hard change now. Stock, if it changed hard, it was more an “oh shit” change.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 08:59, STARS: 1
Yeah, you’ll be fine. Though I would say definitely tune it if you get it. I’m sure what mine does now is less destructive than the way it seems to neutral drop from stock. The only way that could save the trans is by discouraging the behaviour.
Heck, 11 months of tune and thinking about flooring it still scares me, even though it does what I ask for now.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 09:11, STARS: 0
Or that the 6.6 had the problems the 6.0 and 6.4 did of “generally being shit and eating themselves”
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
06/14/2017 at 09:59, STARS: 0
I wonder if the tune is better for the trans?
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 10:13, STARS: 0
Well, this is MY opinion on it. As far as what others say, information I found before doing my servo said that there’s less slip because of the quicker change and harder grab, therefore less wear on clutches etc. Various tuners said the same thing about bumping up line pressure, though they all recommended not going too nuts on it.
As far as breaking hard parts goes, my personal opinion is that if the stock tuning affects how you drive and makes you back off a little, the stock tune will be better for longevity. If you drive hard regardless, I can’t imagine the way the trans responds from factory does it any favours—I’d put my money on the tuned animal.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
06/14/2017 at 10:16, STARS: 0
I feel like there is less stress on the trans in general. The way it shifts is the manual equivalent of waiting for the revs to die down before slotting it in gear, and not rev matching.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 0
And that’s fine—if you take it easy like they want you to. If you want that power, NOW, letting the revs settle before changing up give it time for either full or partial torque reversal (which is what causes that clunk picking up from coasting—some are worse than others) and basically creates the effect of an impact driver when it engages again. The hanging on a downshift is just as bad (or worse), letting the revs climb freely before engaging in that torque reversal situation..
By contrast the quicker, tuned changes may be harder on the engine, but the loading on the driveline stays more constant. It doesn’t have time to create that torque reversal.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/14/2017 at 11:46, STARS: 0
hmmm ive owned two different mod motor trucks and never had an issue with spark plugs... dont know anyone who has either and we do lots of mod motor work on mustangs as well at the shop.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/14/2017 at 11:48, STARS: 1
what motor is the 6.6?
People who trash the 6.0 and 6.4 have never owned one or ever worked on one. Stock for stock they are good motors. Just need to update oil cooler and delete the EGR (which you should do on all modern diesel engines).
People got mad because the 6.0 came out at the beginning of the plug in tuner craze. And people threw 150hp tuners on them stock and wondered why they kept having issues.
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/14/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 0
yea diesel is a premium in the truck market
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 0
I think I can get them down a bit more. I’m not in any rush and this truck has been on their lot for over 2 months so I assume they must be starting to get anxious to get it off the lot. I test drove it already and everything seemed in order and it was a very clean truck. The only concern I have is that it appears to have been modified so it possible it was beat on. That being said it’s a 7.3 with only 91k miles.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
Duramax.
And “stock for stock”, you shouldn’t “need” to do anything. That’s coming from someone who is advising the OP to tune immediately if he buys the truck... because the tuning is shit.
Maybe “generally being shit and eating themselves”is a little harsh... but I wouldn’t touch one myself while there’s 7.3's and 6.7's available. Much better engines. Anyway, it’s no more of a stretch than to say the 6.0 and 6.4 are much better engines than the 6.0 gasser...
"TheD0k_2many toys 2little time" (thed0ck)
06/14/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 1
lol even a beat on 7.3 would go for many miles. my 7.3 spent 150k of its miles towing before i got it and i have had no issues with it so far.
7.3 isnt quick but it wont die (just leak oil) watch out for rust though depending on where you live.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
06/14/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 2
I can get on board with this. The things are fucking legendary. We had problems with ours at ~550,000 km... turned out the air filter probably hadn’t been changed in a dogs age, the oil was mud and the cats were beyond clogged. We’d been spraying starting fluid in it to get it going, but after that it worked... general refresh and two punched out cats later, the clock had been turned back 300,000km...
It had developed electrical issues that were too much for us to bother with on an 18-yo “face of the company” delivery vehicle that was totally beat to shit... so around ~600k we sold it to a mechanic that did... but it’s still going, somewhere.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
06/14/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 1
I actually called them today and told them to give me a better price than they offered last time (which was ~3 weeks ago). We’ll see what they come back with, but if they knock it down enough I’m leaning towards pulling the trigger on it. It’s basically what I want except it’s a dually, which I don’t need and just takes up room in the garage, but I’d be fine with that.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
06/14/2017 at 14:07, STARS: 0
Yeah, that’s crazy. I bought my ‘06 Sierra crew cab brand new for under $22k out the door. 11 years, 121k miles, and a bit of rust later, I could probably still get damn near half what I paid for it.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 16:19, STARS: 1
The 6.0 and 6.4 are perfectly fine motors, so long as the basic stuff is done (and all that is common knowledge).
The main issue is Ford’s insistence on tight clearance in the engine bay, and so the cab has to be lifted if serious stuff has to be done (Rare, but it does happen).
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 16:21, STARS: 1
The LB7? Yes. The overheating LLY? Yes. The LMM and later ones getting emissions stuff? Yes.
LBZ or non-overheating LLY? Not really.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/14/2017 at 16:24, STARS: 0
The 4.6 and 5.4 three valve engines had two piece spark plugs from the factory. Ford released a TSB about removing the plugs as they had a non-trivial rate of breaking off in the head.
In fact, I think there’s a Motorcraft special tool to extract the plug body without requiring head removal.
Other 3V engines would present the broken plug issue by ejecting the plug from the head. That was far more rare than the plug just breaking off in the head.
2V and the 4V engines didn’t have these issues the way the 3V engines did.